Astrological birth charts

Putting together ones life with the modern world.
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Cerastes
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Astrological birth charts

Post by Cerastes »

One of the most popular topics regarding esotericism are the zodiac sun signs or birth charts in general. Many occultists identify with it very strongly and see the complete character, temperament and even the intelligence of a person to be determined by the sings they are born under. Some even choose their partner by checking his/her birth chart first.
Others take them less seriously see it more as an archetypal description of different forces. That's why I'm a bit skeptical here, because as soon as people identify with the said forces, they automatically gain influence.
Nevertheless, I must admit that my birth chart, especially the sun sign, moon sign and ascendant are quite applicable although of course they can be interpreted different.

I’m interested in the opinion of our members and guests.
How important is your astrological birth chart for you? How strongly are our individual energies and also our character dependent on which zodiac sign we were born under?
As this topic can be a little polarizing, please notice that there are no right or wrong answers. I’m just curious about hearing different points of view.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Nefastos
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Re: Astrological birth charts

Post by Nefastos »

An interesting & refreshing topic!
Cerastes wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:31 pmHow important is your astrological birth chart for you? How strongly are our individual energies and also our character dependent on which zodiac sign we were born under?

Not especially important, I do not remember my birth chart as a whole all the time. Not that I wouldn't believe in astrological influences, but maybe I do not believe enough that astrologists can help us too much regarding those influences. Most likely this is temperamental thing, and I am simply too dynamic (or arrogant, or however we want to say it) to stop from doing something which seems like a right thing to do only because celestial influence might be obstructing at the moment.

Cerastes wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:31 pmMany occultists identify with it very strongly and see the complete character, temperament and even the intelligence of a person to be determined by the sings they are born under.

Maybe such a view would be valid, but isn't it also astrologically understandable (at least I have seen astrologists to state this) that there are several possible ways/octaves how the influences can be taken? Maybe there are different astrological schools regarding this. I would personally see that there are different possibilities to attune to with the same signs & tendencies.

As I mentioned in my very first post in this forum, in the Finnish introduction thread, I have witnessed my own Taurus sign characteristics working as the opposite of their usual behaviour, when I was younger. Now I don't say that a skilled astrologer wouldn't necessarily would have been able to calculate that kind of reversal beforehand, but these kind of aspectual changes at least demand a lot from an astrologer. So much actually, that there always remains a place for poetry. There is too much subtle information to make an astrological machine out of man.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Cerastes
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Re: Astrological birth charts

Post by Cerastes »

Nefastos wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:59 pm As I mentioned in my very first post in this forum, in the Finnish introduction thread, I have witnessed my own Taurus sign characteristics working as the opposite of their usual behaviour, when I was younger.
The Finnish to German translation of this comment says you are looking for a new husband. I might not be very accurate. :P
From the way you write and speak in interviews I never would have guessed that your sun sign is Taurus, just like I would not have guessed your country if I didn't know it before.
Nefastos wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:59 pm Maybe such a view would be valid, but isn't it also astrologically understandable (at least I have seen astrologists to state this) that there are several possible ways/octaves how the influences can be taken? Maybe there are different astrological schools regarding this. I would personally see that there are different possibilities to attune to with the same signs & tendencies.
Yes and there are so many ways of interpretation that I doubt how much valid information can really be taken out of a birth chart. Even if the temperament of a person is (partly) determined by the birth chart, there is an endless number of different influences and ways to put it, so that it almost seems to me like most interpretations are based on arbitrariness but maybe this is because I‘m not an expert on this field. It is possible that astrology gets a bad reputation because there are so many unskilled persons who, for example, write horoskopes for the daily newspaper or do chart readings for money.

In addition I somtimes notice the tendency to use the sun sign as an apology for mistakes or bad behaviour. Like „I can’t help it, I’m a Scorpio“.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Nefastos
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Re: Astrological birth charts

Post by Nefastos »

Cerastes wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:08 pmIt is possible that astrology gets a bad reputation because there are so many unskilled persons who, for example, write horoskopes for the daily newspaper or do chart readings for money.

I understand very well, and try to respect, the modern attitude that refuses absolutely any possibility of astrological influences. But it is extremely unfortunate that part of this attitude is stems from the totally out of blue imagined horoscopes in yellow tabloid journals and similar sources, which have no actual astrological knowledge or aspiration whatsoever. It should be somewhat problematic thing to think about the unity of astronomy and astrology in Egypt, India and Greek, for example, and their mathematical exactness, and tell that the people having this kind of knowledge without the aid of computers would be just dullards in their primitive superstition. (A book suggestion for those who would be willing to take this mind-bending journey: Sûrya-Siddhânta, transl. Burgess & Whitney.)

Cerastes wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:08 pmFrom the way you write and speak in interviews I never would have guessed that your sun sign is Taurus, just like I would not have guessed your country if I didn't know it before.

Come to think of it, my fraternity name comes from the same reversal attitude. To Romans, dies nefasti were the days which were astrologically unfortunate to act. Although I didn't know this when choosing the name; it just came to me spontaneously, and I started to research the meanings afterwards.

Cerastes wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:08 pmThe Finnish to German translation of this comment says you are looking for a new husband. I might not be very accurate.

It's very hard to believe that Google Translate would ever make a mistake. Rather, I will change my post accordingly.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Cancer
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Re: Astrological birth charts

Post by Cancer »

I find a great deal of meaning in my Sun sign — as my username probably makes clear — but don’t know almost anything about astrology as a system. When trying to widen my understanding, I’m quickly confused and bored by all the contradictory information, cheap, uninspired characterizations etc. — although I would be very interested in e.g. knowing how each sign historically acquired the meaning they hold now.

For as long as I’ve been developing a relationship to Cancer as a personal symbol, I’ve assumed that the sign has some special connection to Venus, another important object of contemplation for me. I’m not sure wether I’ve learned this by osmosis or half-consciously mixed the symbols up myself. Could somebody tell me what, if any, basis the connection has in astrology?
Tiden läker inga sår.
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Cerastes
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Re: Astrological birth charts

Post by Cerastes »

Nefastos wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:26 pm It's very hard to believe that Google Translate would ever make a mistake. Rather, I will change my post accordingly.
To be perfectly honest I like reading poorly translated Finnish comments, especially if there are analogies or metaphors involved. It’s like a „guess what the Finns want to say“ game. I would almost be a little disappointed if google improves the translator software to a point were it always gets everything right. It would totally ruin my game.
Nefastos wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:26 pm Come to think of it, my fraternity name comes from the same reversal attitude. To Romans, dies nefasti were the days which were astrologically unfortunate to act. Although I didn't know this when choosing the name; it just came to me spontaneously, and I started to research the meanings afterwards.
That's really cool.
I know the word nefasto from Spanish but I wasn't aware that is also has an astrological meaning.
Cancer wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:06 am I’m quickly confused and bored by all the contradictory information, cheap, uninspired characterizations etc. — although I would be very interested in e.g. knowing how each sign historically acquired the meaning they hold now.
I've been convinced for the longest time that astrology is naive nonsense that people just want to believe. One of the reasons for this was that these cheap, superficial characterizations obviously can not fully reliable. Everyone knows that not all people who are born in February have exactly the same peronality traits. In addition quite often only the positive, flattering properties are mentioned.

As I started to explore the zodiac signs a little further I found out that I do have a strong connection to my sun+moon sign (Aries). That does not mean that I carry all the psychological traits that are associated with it. For example it is almost impossible to get me angry and I usually don’t understand why other people get angry. To me it does not make any sense to say „I’m an Aries“. I would rather say I have a deep understanding for this particular Zodiac sign, just like you have one for Cancer.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Re: Astrological birth charts

Post by Peregrina »

I believe Cancer is traditionally associated with moon.

I used to identify strongly with the stereotypical depiction of Aquarius, but I guess I just wanted a nice box where to squeeze in and sun sign was handy for that purpose. Aquarius as a sign is also appealingly excentric.
Later I learned about ascendant and explained my inner conflicts with this Aquarius - Leo - conflict, thought I'm not even sure if there is a conflict.
Perhaps this is like having a tritone in a chord, where the other intervals soften the edge.
I think it might be possible to say something about persons karma if look at the whole birth chart instead of focusing too much on certain "notes" or "intervals".
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Heith
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Re: Astrological birth charts

Post by Heith »

Some things spring to mind.

This thing that Nefastos mentioned about being the complete opposite of how one is supposed to be considering their zodiac, I too have this experience when I was younger. Since then however, I have become a model Capricorn. So I wonder, how much of this can be considered under one's seven year cycles, or, the Ages of Man, as Nefastos has written about the subject.

As the planets are in constant motion, everyone's chart and how the planets sit in their particular Houses is different. So yes, no two Cancers are the same –but so are not the planets exactly in the same position as they are born. Or I would say that it is at least very rare to find someone in your life who has the same birth time per minute as you do, so comparing is hard. And then, perhaps we must consider also the effects of our personal karmic paths that put us in certain situations that create unique patterns for us to choose from. And of course our environment and background plays a huge part. I like to consider the astrological things as more of a backdrop, or a toolkit. One can always expand their starter toolkit.

Strangely, I have met a person who was born on the same day as I have, and year too. We are apart I think by two hours. We have become very close friends and although we meet very rarely seeing we live in different countries now, the way we met and how things developed from there were very peculiar and significant. And certainly, we have a lot of similarities in temperament. I would say that this person was someone that had a significant importance in my life and for my personal development.

The ability to interpret birth charts is difficult, and a lot of the information that ancient cultures had on the subject of planets is sadly lost. So the contemporary astrologer relies, at least in part, to intuition perhaps more than what was customary before. I have had a interpretation of my chart a few times. These interpretations were fairly different from one another, and it may be a question of the sources they use, or perhaps of how they personally interpret of explain me as a person.

For myself, the latest interpretation was helpful, because the person who did it said that there is a certain shape that the planets align as, and this creates a constant conflict. And this is true of myself –I am at the same time extremely passionate and utterly uninterested, fascinated and melancholic. So by naming this motion (or the lack of it), I have begun to observe it more and am more aware of it. So instead of going "well I simply am like this" I can go "well, the stars aren't right but let's do this anyway".

With that said, I do think that I sit well in the company of Saturn. I am extremely ambitious regarding my career.
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Re: Astrological birth charts

Post by Cerastes »

Heith wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:57 pm This thing that Nefastos mentioned about being the complete opposite of how one is supposed to be considering their zodiac, I too have this experience when I was younger. Since then however, I have become a model Capricorn. So I wonder, how much of this can be considered under one's seven year cycles, or, the Ages of Man, as Nefastos has written about the subject.
Your art seems very much influenced by Saturn - The collages even more than the paintings, because they are so obessivly detailed and structured.
Capricorn is my ascendant and while the mars energy often found its manifestation in ways that are rather anarchistic earlier in my life it has now reached a point were it is seeved through the heaviness of Saturn much more. Maybe the planetary powers shine more intense if the personality is settled by the growing age. Generally I think Saturn strikes stronger after the twenties have ended. Hopefully the "ages of man" text will be translated one day, it is mentioned quite often so it seems to be very interesting.

I never had a professional birth chart reading, I only checked it online so it's probably not very accurate. Some things are extremly contradictory and others are definetly true. If each an every position and housing of the planets is taken into account, including all the conjunctions, trines and squares the whole interpretation becomes indeed very complex.
Heith wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:57 pm And of course our environment and background plays a huge part. I like to consider the astrological things as more of a backdrop, or a toolkit. One can always expand their starter toolkit.
That's a good way to put it. One can either accept existing problems as god-given or use the knowledge about problematic properties to understand them and therfore to prefent intensifying them. I think that's a problem that is very present today because people like to think in simple categories and it almost seem like they are constantly searching for a good external reason why they can't change themselves.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Re: Astrological birth charts

Post by obnoxion »

I am supposed to be born when Sun was in the sign of Aries. But due to precession that the gravitational pull of the Moon causes to earth, from March 11 to April 18, the Sun is actually in the constellation of Pisces. And somehow it seems that I find myself (often uneven) blend of both. Especially nowdays, I find I have submerged into poetry and art with a sort of Piscean pull. If I remember correctly, I have my Mercury in Pisces, which suits with my affinity to visionary art. Also, I have a strong affinity to the Earth Diver Archetype, which we've speculated on this forum about being a kind of Neptunian aspect of Satan.

But during my teenage years I led a very Martian sort of life, though not in any military sense of the word. I actually have the scars in the face (including both corners of the eyes that form a sort of image of the curved horns of the astrological sign of Aries) that are often associated with the headstrong Aries.
Cerastes wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:22 pm Heith kirjoitti: ↑And of course our environment and background plays a huge part. I like to consider the astrological things as more of a backdrop, or a toolkit. One can always expand their starter toolkit.
That's a good way to put it. One can either accept existing problems as god-given or use the knowledge about problematic properties to understand them and therfore to prefent intensifying them. I think that's a problem that is very present today because people like to think in simple categories and it almost seem like they are constantly searching for a good external reason why they can't change themselves.
I also think that environment counts. I remember when I was in my early teens, we had to move to a very difficult neighbourhood. There was much violence, poverty, mental illness and alcoholism. Many of the adults there were mentaly ill, and they often tried to attack us kids, sometimes with knives. Those were very gruesome and desperate surroundings where one always needed to be on guard. If one is inclined to be an Aries, that sort of environment will make it happen.

But I also see a deeper sort of influence in environment. I feel there is a sort of poetic geomancy in the physical surroundings - one that is not unlike astrology. It can reveal a cosmic scale of beauty in the most mundane and seemingly disorganized spaces. Even if one doesn't always sense it, when you do, it becomes impossible to think that it doesn't have a subtle effect on any conscious being. I think great architecture and much of modern art is about becoming awake to this kind of spiritual depth of the mundane.
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