Spirit Spouses and their persecution

Astral and paranormal experiences, dreams and visions.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Spirit Spouses and their persecution

Postby Polyhymnia » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:58 am

obnoxion wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:49 am
Marie-Louis von Franz shares an Alchemical story about Isis, which relates to our topic: When her son had gone to fight Typhon, Isis went to the Town of Hermes. Isis waited for the right moment – the kairoi – when the heavenly spheres were in right position. When the moment came, an angelic being from the first firmament saw Isis and wanted to unite with her sexually. Isis said she will not comply unless the angel tell her everything he knows about Alchemy. The next time the angle came with his superior called Amnael, who taught Isis all he knew, but Isis was not allowed to reveal this knowledge to anyone except her son.

The story does not tell if the promise of sex happened. Marie-Louis von Franz compares this myth to the Jewish legend of daughters of men getting the secrets of metallurgy from Azazel. Although the “original” (I wouldn’t say there is an original text that is copied and copied, but instead would consider an Archetypal source for the mythic pattern in question) Heathen versions tend to celebrate the knowledge without any guilt. Here I will quote a most enlightening paragraph from M-L von F’s “Alchemy – An Introduction to the Symbolism and Psychology” (Inner City Books, 1980; page 57). She basically suggests that a sexual impulse that might take the form of an enamored spiritual being, might be the first form of a chance to progress of consciousness that could be lost if we abandons ourselves to it immediately:

“…the angel would represent a content of the collective unconscious, in our terms, which irrupts into the psychological system with a demand, in this case a sexual one… Alchemy was born through Isis’ resistance and the fact that she did not cede quickly [or] at least delayed the sexual process, if it did not stop it altogether… If she were a human woman, the angel’s attack would be an animus invasion, but I would rather formulate it much more generally because that would apply to a single case, and this is not case material. It means that very often contents of the collective unconscious irrupt in an instinctive form, in the form of some kind of instinctive urge, either power or sex, or something of the kind. That is, the libido irruption of the unconscious presents itself on a relatively animal or low level first, and that is something we experience again and again. The development of further consciousness often manifests initially in this form. One of the great problems in the psychological realm was to recognize this. If such an irruption takes place you can say that that is being flooded by the sexual impulse, or fantasies, or even physical sexual impulse. We have always to decide whether that is genuine sex or disguised unconscious impulse, which really implies knowledge or progress of consciousness, which appears first in this form.”

Wow. You have no idea how much I needed to read this today. The Divine works in mysterious ways. My morning meditation had me thinking of the nature of sexual impulse, and how I often perceive it as an annoying obstacle since it tends to creep up when I'm trying to be still, or perform magical workings. Does anyone else experience this? I'm wondering if perhaps I need to look at these impulses deeper and dissect what's going on. I'm going to see if I can find a copy of the book you mentioned.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
obnoxion
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Re: Spirit Spouses and their persecution

Postby obnoxion » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:17 pm

Polyhymnia wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:58 am
obnoxion wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:49 am
Marie-Louis von Franz shares an Alchemical story about Isis, which relates to our topic: When her son had gone to fight Typhon, Isis went to the Town of Hermes. Isis waited for the right moment – the kairoi – when the heavenly spheres were in right position. When the moment came, an angelic being from the first firmament saw Isis and wanted to unite with her sexually. Isis said she will not comply unless the angel tell her everything he knows about Alchemy. The next time the angle came with his superior called Amnael, who taught Isis all he knew, but Isis was not allowed to reveal this knowledge to anyone except her son.

The story does not tell if the promise of sex happened. Marie-Louis von Franz compares this myth to the Jewish legend of daughters of men getting the secrets of metallurgy from Azazel. Although the “original” (I wouldn’t say there is an original text that is copied and copied, but instead would consider an Archetypal source for the mythic pattern in question) Heathen versions tend to celebrate the knowledge without any guilt. Here I will quote a most enlightening paragraph from M-L von F’s “Alchemy – An Introduction to the Symbolism and Psychology” (Inner City Books, 1980; page 57). She basically suggests that a sexual impulse that might take the form of an enamored spiritual being, might be the first form of a chance to progress of consciousness that could be lost if we abandons ourselves to it immediately:

“…the angel would represent a content of the collective unconscious, in our terms, which irrupts into the psychological system with a demand, in this case a sexual one… Alchemy was born through Isis’ resistance and the fact that she did not cede quickly [or] at least delayed the sexual process, if it did not stop it altogether… If she were a human woman, the angel’s attack would be an animus invasion, but I would rather formulate it much more generally because that would apply to a single case, and this is not case material. It means that very often contents of the collective unconscious irrupt in an instinctive form, in the form of some kind of instinctive urge, either power or sex, or something of the kind. That is, the libido irruption of the unconscious presents itself on a relatively animal or low level first, and that is something we experience again and again. The development of further consciousness often manifests initially in this form. One of the great problems in the psychological realm was to recognize this. If such an irruption takes place you can say that that is being flooded by the sexual impulse, or fantasies, or even physical sexual impulse. We have always to decide whether that is genuine sex or disguised unconscious impulse, which really implies knowledge or progress of consciousness, which appears first in this form.”

Wow. You have no idea how much I needed to read this today. The Divine works in mysterious ways. My morning meditation had me thinking of the nature of sexual impulse, and how I often perceive it as an annoying obstacle since it tends to creep up when I'm trying to be still, or perform magical workings. Does anyone else experience this? I'm wondering if perhaps I need to look at these impulses deeper and dissect what's going on. I'm going to see if I can find a copy of the book you mentioned.
The quote was an epiphany for me too! That's why I had to post it. For years I've been struggling with how to understand my sexuality. I mean, I have an appreciation for chastity and abstinence, and I feel there have been times I have profited from celibacy spiritually, psychologically and physically. But, excepting few periods, I've been a highly sexual being from a very young age, and as I haven't been brought up a Christian, I have not much guilt about it.

One of my important realization as a teenager were that many erotic fantasies are much more enjoyable as fantasies, and there is often little point in puting them to practice. Now I think that this is just as important - that there are greater things that first surface as sexual impulses, but if you take a patient interest in them and abstain from giving in to the stimuli, there might be a more enduring and more fundamental - perhaps even more blissful - experience rising from the deeps. Or it might be something that leads you to bedroom by sundown, and soon it will be lost in the vast storehouses of the memories of pleasures.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Spirit Spouses and their persecution

Postby Polyhymnia » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:32 am

obnoxion wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:17 pm

The quote was an epiphany for me too! That's why I had to post it. For years I've been struggling with how to understand my sexuality. I mean, I have an appreciation for chastity and abstinence, and I feel there have been times I have profited from celibacy spiritually, psychologically and physically. But, excepting few periods, I've been a highly sexual being from a very young age, and as I haven't been brought up a Christian, I have not much guilt about it.

One of my important realization as a teenager were that many erotic fantasies are much more enjoyable as fantasies, and there is often little point in puting them to practice. Now I think that this is just as important - that there are greater things that first surface as sexual impulses, but if you take a patient interest in them and abstain from giving in to the stimuli, there might be a more enduring and more fundamental - perhaps even more blissful - experience rising from the deeps. Or it might be something that leads you to bedroom by sundown, and soon it will be lost in the vast storehouses of the memories of pleasures.
I've been a highly sexual being from a very young age as well, but I grew up in a Christian home and still harbour a huge amount of guilt about it. I remember being quite young and my parents taking me to this big Christian conference and people were being "slain in the spirit", (a Christian phenomenon where people feel so overwhelmed by the Holy Ghost that they start speaking uncontrollably in tongues and often times fall to the floor, for anyone who may be unfamiliar with the term), and when my turn came to be slain, I dropped immediately and started speaking gibberish because I was terrified that if I didn't, they would sense that I was a sinner, and the things I thought about would bring me eternal damnation and they would yell it at the top of their lungs and shame me in front of the whole crowd. I struggle still, but I'm aware of it and try my best to work through it.

I agree with you about many erotic fantasies being more enjoyable as fantasies. I often find when something becomes real it no longer becomes desirable. I thought maybe that was because of my guilt complex, and I'm sure in some parts it is, but I think there's alot of food for thought in your words, and I'll definitely find myself more aware of those impulses and where they lead in the future if I don't act on them.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Re: Spirit Spouses and their persecution

Postby obnoxion » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:32 pm

Polyhymnia wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:32 am
I've been a highly sexual being from a very young age as well, but I grew up in a Christian home and still harbour a huge amount of guilt about it. I remember being quite young and my parents taking me to this big Christian conference and people were being "slain in the spirit", (a Christian phenomenon where people feel so overwhelmed by the Holy Ghost that they start speaking uncontrollably in tongues and often times fall to the floor, for anyone who may be unfamiliar with the term), and when my turn came to be slain, I dropped immediately and started speaking gibberish because I was terrified that if I didn't, they would sense that I was a sinner, and the things I thought about would bring me eternal damnation and they would yell it at the top of their lungs and shame me in front of the whole crowd. I struggle still, but I'm aware of it and try my best to work through it
That sounds terrifying. Some of my most worrying experiences as a child have been wittnessing some pecularities of adults' christianity. Somehow it manages to seem so evil at times.

I am, however, quite interested in Charismatic Christianity, like snake handling. But that is more an aesthetic than spiritual thing for me.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Spirit Spouses and their persecution

Postby Polyhymnia » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:39 am

obnoxion wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:32 pm

I am, however, quite interested in Charismatic Christianity, like snake handling. But that is more an aesthetic than spiritual thing for me.
I had to google Charismatic Christianity because I didn't realize there was a term to describe it. It pretty much encompasses the type of spirituality I was exposed to my entire childhood. The really "on fire" ones were just Pentecostals :lol:
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Re: Spirit Spouses and their persecution

Postby Noname » Sun May 19, 2019 1:52 pm

Heith wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:59 pm
Noname wrote: Note: I do realize my 'way' is highly inconsiderate and more than likely destructive (to myself only, thankfully), but I feel its important I stay true to my nature, and true self.
Hmm. Would you like to elaborate on this a little bit? The way I understand the concept of a Spiritual spouse -though I have not one myself- doesn't seem to be something which would promote destructiveness.
Now, that sufficient growth has taken place, I believe I am finally prepared to provide an genuine answer to this. Now being conscious of the unconscious processes of the psyche occurring, the phenomena could best be described as psyche reaching the logos, and the logos deconstructs the psyche into male and female on material plane, witnessed in ego. The invisible trickster is now made visible, who merely provided the destruction of the old without providing any fertile soil for growth. Now that the archetype of the magician, steward of the psyche having matured, this destruction brings the death of the material, which is then resurrected by the spirit, so that through destruction of the artificial structures of the psyche one sows the seeds of spirit, from which psyche develops towards maturity. The story of Eros and Psyche provides a fitting imagery of the phenomena.

Now, at least on personal level of consciousness, I believe this idea of a spirit spouse served as the first images, or symbols of my mind towards union of the opposites, of male and female. This alchemical conjunction now having taken place to marry the opposites, has provided imagery of a good natured ruse from the trickster. This marriage of the mind, or of sun and moon was all that the trickster cared about. While as this child of conjunction is still feeble, or unstable, a death of thousand deaths prior to the second - lasting marriage and what could be best described as resurrection - the occasional witnessing of the famed peacock's tail, a brilliant display of colors and visions, accompanied by strange feelings and other mystical phenomena bring about the solace of promise that each step on the way leads towards the destination.
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