Suicide

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
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Heith
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Re: Suicide

Postby Heith » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:22 am

A relative of mine also committed suicide. This was some time after her mother had died of a difficult illness. I do not know if the two events are related.

I remember I did not feel that she had done anything wrong- this was her choice and I went to the funeral, and respected her choice. Not all felt the same. I did not mourn her passing, it felt like something she had to do at that time. But, we were not very close so perhaps I would have felt differently if she would have been my best friend, or beloved. She was quite young which was perhaps why it was so upsetting to most.

I have been extremely suicidal several times in my life. I have attempted once, though I was hallucinating so badly then that I wasn't really thinking. I was rather depressed as well.

I feel much of what fra Nefastos writes here- sometimes life is almost unbearable and one can pull through with the help of small things. I have found great consolation in art and religion. It is possible to draw the worst pain away, if only momentarily. It is possible to fall in love with the world. All makes more sense after I begun learning of shamanism and runic magic. It also helps me that I stopped my daily work and focused on art. I see less people, and the ones I see mean more to me. I become so stressed, numb and hateful in cities, so I stopped that kind of thing altogether. I try and focus on the things I find meaningful. Sometimes it's just a cup of tea or watching birds flying in the garden. Small things. Projects. Music. Looking at pictures of foxes.

At the same time, I love suffering, as happiness doesn't create art- at least not in my case. So I shouldn't be too content with things or my art begins to suffers. I have to balance on a knife-point constantly. Awe or suffering, these are good states of mind.

Company of animals, particularly dogs, is comforting. They are one of the best healers around.

It is possible that I will one day kill myself, but after I begun to study magical things I no longer feel that I should rush it. I believe that if the time comes I will know it. I have always had one foot in the grave so to say. I sit on grave mounds and feel great love and calm, and some kind of longing. I look forward to dying, and often think of death at night. The thought fills me with great gratitude and surges of love- I'm alive now, soon I'll be dead. Both things are great. I will make the most of this state of being, and then venture on to another adventure. I'm rather hungry for life in some ways. I've found passion.

I do not think committing suicide condemns anyone in the eyes of any God-like being. Rather, we condemn ourselves- or allow the environment to condemn us. Hell and heaven exist here and now. I am a firm believer that ugly constructions make for miserable people. Personally, I think I begin the suffer when I seize creating. When I get a block and can't draw I start to get anxious and nervous. I feel like a cripple. Then I can get really depressed.

A scenario where I would probably kill myself would be if my hands would stop working and I could no longer create. I do not think that could be bearable. Otherwise, I try to be a warrior. Sometimes I almost convince myself.
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Sebomai
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Re: Suicide

Postby Sebomai » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:20 pm

My dear, dear friend, Heith... I have absolutely nothing I can add to that except how much I relate to everything you said. Truly deep, magical, oddly comforting post. Thank you for sharing this part of yourself. I didn't learn anything completely new as I see this all reflected in myself, but I did learn that someone else out there understands it and that is just as valuable.

Our situations were different, the person I lost was as close to me as two human beings possibly can be. But there was no anger at her ever and she was also very young. I knew she simply saw no other options at the time. We both knew our love would end in one of us committing suicide one day, unless we'd decided to do it together at some point. I always thought it would be me, because she was making massive strides towards improving her life and I was just floating along, suffering. But the stress she was under is what cracked her ultimately. She had taken on too much. It was not a toxic love at all, in spite of this awareness of suicide constantly looming in the distance. We both gave each other many years of life that we would certainly never have had otherwise. When I told her mother that I blamed myself for being unable to help her more, her mother said those exact words. "If it weren't for you in her life, she'd have done this long, long ago." Sad, so sad, but also comforting. I made someone's life better enough to keep them here longer than they'd ever planned. Makes me feel sort of special.

I also love and no longer fear death. I also think I may kill myself someday. But I have a good-natured rivalry with suicide. "So, you think you're going to get me? Maybe eventually... but you're going to have to work really, really hard at it, because I'm going to fight you as hard as I possibly can." Not the fear of death, or the fear of suicide, or fear of any kind of judgment. Just the feeling that I still have things to do, and want to get around to as much of that as possible.
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Heith
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Re: Suicide

Postby Heith » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:09 pm

I can relate to this feeling that there are still things to do. When things get hard, I think "ok, this one more project, I can do this, then I sleep..." and do that project, and suddenly I notice I'm being tempted into another one, and one after that, and there is still this and that place to see- that sometimes I get stressed because it feels like I've not the time to make all the things I would like to make.

After I accepted that I was a religious person, I begun to appreciate my surroundings more. I felt like I belong somewhere- and with Runes, I begun to feel the line of ancestors gone before me. It was a intense feeling of suddenly, I had roots. I started to think about these people, their struggles and lives. Looking at old things, here in the north- such as ships, or burial mounds & petroglyphs I think they are my things. It fills me with awe and love. Of course I recognize that much of this is romantic thinking and "stupid", but I refuse to judge myself on this.

I can get intense delight in finding treasures at the shore, or looking at plants- small things. At the same time they terrify me, because these little events and objects in nature are so wonderfully delicate and well designed that I think no matter how well I draw, I will never get anywhere near this. But I guess one can try and translate this to others. And the knowledge of "I will never get there" is no excuse not to try, I think.

I am glad that my words have been meaningful to you. It can be so very helpful to feel, well, unity, with others.
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Sebomai
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Re: Suicide

Postby Sebomai » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:11 pm

I already posted about this musician in a thread in the Member's Forum. He's a Jewish singer-songwriter that I consider the greatest English lyricist I've ever encountered. This song, I had a lot to do with the song selection, was the very last song played at my Janine's memorial service. It started to play and, her mom, who was familiar with it, reached over, grasped my hand, and started to cry. The words are filled with the love of the Divine as well as the love of fellow men and women. Whatever black metal insanity is played at my funeral, I'd also like this track to end the service. Nothing could be more fitting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEzRXjg1rYE
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Re: Suicide

Postby emmy » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:57 pm

I find it so insightful to hear all of your responses to this post. It is so deeply apart of us all and I find it very conforting that we do have eachother to get through these tough times. I too, think about it alot, what it would be like. But then I think of my family and friends and what they would feel if I did that to them and it somehow stops me. Its so much better when you realize that there are those who do love and care for you and would help you if you went to them.
Tixerand

Re: Suicide

Postby Tixerand » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:33 am

Camus referred to not committing suicide as 'rebellion against the absurd' (how Satanic) in his absurdist philosophy. His Myth of Sisyphus largely deals with suicide in the face of life having no inherent value/meaning. I recommend the read.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Fomalhaut » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:39 pm

Tixerand wrote:Camus referred to not committing suicide as 'rebellion against the absurd' (how Satanic) in his absurdist philosophy. His Myth of Sisyphus largely deals with suicide in the face of life having no inherent value/meaning. I recommend the read.
Thanks a lot for your suggestion! I add it to the list of books to read!
"I am not what happened to me, I am what I choose to become."
— C.G. Jung
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Mimesis
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Re: Suicide

Postby Mimesis » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:15 pm

I find this topic very interestingly placed. I have always had, continue to, and always will have thoughts of suicide, but the motives and understanding behind those motives have developed. Whilst I do not deny that I have been through various anxieties, mental issues and depression, never have these been the root of my aforementioned consideration, and never has that consideration been negative or due to any lack of unified thought.
Instead, it will be a positive moment that my path reaches a point of readiness and understanding for the beauty that is freedom from form; pure spirit.

As seekers and followers of Satan, regardless of the varying understandings we may have, we must share in the reverence for and understanding of Death.
Our brother Nefastos explored that far beyond my capability in Fosforos, particularly in Necrosophia, and somewhere within Fosforos made a comment on the potential draw toward suicide upon certain realisations, although it pains me to admit that I cannot currently remember or find the quote itself.
I think there is merit in recognising when ones path reaches the point of readiness for the beyond and initiating the journey oneself.
 
Considering that we spend part of our Occult journey bound to form and (hopefully) achieve oneness and unity of spirit within it, what are peoples thoughts in regard to how we leave that form and the effects/importance it has on the continuing journey?      

I personally think that the human body reaches a point where it loses possibility and relevance to our journey upon The Great Work, and eventually a point where it regresses the oneness and understanding we may have achieved. Whether this be due to, for example, physical impairments that may begin to taint and sour our outlook and thus our being, therefore causing us to regress and lose sight of our greater spiritual work, which is potentially the worst as it is almost willful, or through mental impairments that literally force forgetfulness and absence from all that we are, there comes a time where we uncontrollably reject the suffering of form.
To me at least there is merit in realising and acting upon this prior to it posing the risk of any negative effect.

I would be interested to hear the views regarding whether our spiritual ascension is affected by later mental regression....
"We are such stuff. As dreams are made on, and our little life. Is rounded with a sleep."
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Nefastos
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Re: Suicide

Postby Nefastos » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:00 am

Thank you for your kind words, brother. And the topic is surely interesting to the end & beyond...
JR/O wrote:I would be interested to hear the views regarding whether our spiritual ascension is affected by later mental regression....


I do not believe in that. True, it may sometimes seem to be so, for a great yearning to any direction will necessarily bring about its polar opposite as a magnetic pull, when the cycle is changing. But what it creates if our striving has been pure in its core is, that the new seemingly opposite phase will actually bring us closer to the original goal: the movement is the ascending spiral, rather than not-evolving zig zag.

That is, if we have chosen, & continue to choose, the spiritual path. If it's enough for us to just go by our business in the world, it actually is much more like zig zag, & the advancement is very slow.

JR/O wrote:Considering that we spend part of our Occult journey bound to form and (hopefully) achieve oneness and unity of spirit within it, what are peoples thoughts in regard to how we leave that form and the effects/importance it has on the continuing journey?


I think that the key issue here is one's identification. What part of my being I actually identify myself with, & how?

For if we'd just try to unclothe ourselves from the crude matter, that can't be done without a work of very lengthy periods of time; any attempt to do so with the aid of violence will simply create repercussions & hindrances, for these things demand extreme subtlety, their essence being interwoven into most sublime levels of being. Instead, we should accept this state of being as our tools for initiation. This wretched body & poor brain it hinders my true thoughts with are my teachers, my latent powers, my brothers. They are not me (!), but they are not the enemy either. They are like the Magician's tools on his table in the first Arcana: the four-fold possibilities of matter & energy, the so-called cross of the body. And thus, one step at the time, year by year, sometimes minute by minute, living becomes a mystery play.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: Suicide

Postby RaktaZoci » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:27 pm

I think suicide must be something that all who see the world differently must ponder on. I've done so too when I was younger and my life was a chaotic mess. But since I had a little bit of Lucifers rebellion in me back then already I refused this path that looked as it was carved on the ground before me.

I know stress can be the cause of anxiety for many and I am too a person that usually, maybe unintentionally, burdens myself in things to do and projects. I like to keep myself busy but then again that is the very thing that troubles me. A paradox?

While reading the dialog above with Heith and Sebomai I started to think about the things mentioned put into the context of my life. I havent had anyone close to me commit suicide, except for my grand mother who did so before I was born. She shot herself when my mom was 17 years old. This might have somewhat to do with a mental illness background in her side of the family, but after what I've heard I believe this was not the cause of the deed.

I can relate to Heith in concerns that I do enjoy nature and its beauty and quiet, but I can still tolarate the city life quite well. Is is a good thing that in Finland you dont really have to go far from the city to be surrounded by wilderness.

As the fear of death was mentioned, this is something that I learned from the black path not to be concerned with. Moreof I'd like to see death as a beautiful thing rather than horrifying and just as a waypoint on a longer journey.
Isnt death the opposite of birth, and not life? (yes, this is a quote. Can't remember who's though).

At this moment I'm facing upwards, but who knows when the downward spiral is ready to take hold of my life again..
die Eule der Minerva beginnt erst mit der einbrechenden Dämmerung ihren Flug.
-Hegel

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