Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

Discussion on literature other than by the Star of Azazel.
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Beshiira
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Re: Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

Post by Beshiira »

Hermes Trismegistus wrote:23. But to the Mind-less ones, the wicked and depraved, the envious and covetous, and those who mured do and love impiety, I am far off, yielding my place to the Avenging Daimon, who sharpening the fire, tormenteth him and addeth fire to fire upon him, and rusheth upon him through his senses, thus rendering him readier for transgressions of the law, so that he meets with greater torment; nor doth he ever cease to have desire for appetites inordinate, insatiately striving in the dark.

This is an obvious counterpart to the previous verse, the same thing by negation in a way. Almost a biblical tone to it.

Here are some points that right now seem important or interesting to me.

To the ”wicked and depraved” people the Mind says to be ”far off”. That means, not ”out of reach” entirely, even in such a state.

The ”Avenging Daimon” again brings Karma to my mind, in a ”you shall dwell in wherever your interest lies” kind of way. Also senses are said to be the gateway for this Avenging Demon to come through. I take it to mean that this happens if senses have been left to be only vessels for the immediate, material things.

”...nor doth he ever cease to have desire for appetites inordinate, insatiately striving in the dark.” This makes me think of how I have been drawn to vampires aesthetically from a very young age. Such imagery can be very understandably appealing, but from a spiritual point of view a vampire can be a quite problematic ”ideal”. Vampirism in the negative sense could relate to e.g. taking something from others only for personal gain, eventually creating only misery for everyone. And as we know, the vampire's curse is exactly as said in this verse: never-ceasing (”earthly”) desires, never-ending hunger; following ones needs in the shadows, despite the outer appeal and apparent strength. I'm sure more positive vampire interpretations could be made too, generally speaking; this came to mind in relation to the ”Mind-less ones” mentioned in this text. Images of all sorts of gaunt Gollum-like creatures crawling in the shadows come to mind.
"Ja kun minun kirkkauteni kulkee ohitse, asetan minä sinut kallion rotkoon ja peitän sinut kädelläni, kunnes olen kulkenut ohi.
Kun minä sitten siirrän pois käteni, näet sinä minun selkäpuoleni; mutta minun kasvojani ei voi kenkään katsoa."
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Smaragd
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Re: Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

Post by Smaragd »

In the Copenhaver version pointed brackets { } means a word or words regarded as unintelligible or otherwise problematic.
Poimandres wrote:[23] "But from these I remains distant - the thoughtless and evil and wicked and envious and greedy and violent and irreverent - "
The higher self can not aid if the lower self does not come and meet halfway. The emphasis should be on the word 'distant', for from there we can also see how it has to be between human individuals: there's no judgement, no witch hunt, no falling in to the pit of vices with someone who struggles with themselves, only distance coming from the knowledge that we can give active help only if the other is ready to climb up from their solipsistic holes. Otherwise we are only a help in distant presence.
Poimandres wrote:"giving way to the avenging demon who {wounds the evil person}, assailing him sensibly with the piercing fire and thus arming him the better for lawless deeds so that greater vengeance may befall him."
Here we can see Satan actually emerging from the Mind, which is the only initiator that can reach people in their holes. Satan does this by sacrificing its own power to be misused by the individual so one can be shocked awake by the harm they cause with the given powers. This does not always work out good during one life time, but this Saturnian power plays the long game and new sense of youthful humility can be found from the cycles of reincarnation.
Poimandres wrote:"Such a person does not cease longing after insatiable appetites, struggling in the darkness without satisfaction. {This} tortures him and makes the fire grow upon him all the more."
I think this is a form of Satanic mercy and is more accurate than the idea of being shocked which I mentioned on the previous paragraph. The insatiable appetite that burns greater and greater is like a whispered question of whether it is possible to transcend this one dimensional view of reality. It is like breaking out from Plato's cave and finding the real world and real sustenance satisfying the hunger, which nothing consumed in the world of mirages - the cave - could satisfy.

I think it speaks something about the archetypal accuracy of how I intuitively spoke about holes in the ground and Plato spoke about the cave. Reading myths about the underworlds with the idea of solipsism as a personal space of self-torture in to which individuals drive themselves to by cutting away understanding towards others and thus one's own ability to see anything more than their own shadows dancing on the wall of the cave.
Beshiira wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:59 pm I'm sure more positive vampire interpretations could be made too
I've thought about this alot lately as I've been watching alot of vampire films. Generally I see the Left-Hand Path demonic creatures gain their positive initiatory qualities from acknowledging their negative traits and the danger they portray. Then they become almost like higher powers we need to compete with in order to not be dominated by them, and rather win their admiration and thus absorb their powers under our own command and body of spirits.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
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Re: Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

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A day late, sorry about that.

Hermes Trismegistus wrote:24. Well hast thou taught me all, as I desired, O Mind. And now, pray, tell me further of the nature of the Way Above as now it is [for me].

To this Man-Shepherd said: When the material body is to be dissolved, first thou surrenderest the body by itself unto the work of change, and thus the form thou hadst doth vanish, and thou surrenderest thy way of life, void of its energy, unto the Daimon. The body's senses next pass back into their sources, becoming separate, and resurrect as energies; and passion and desire withdraw unto that nature which is void of reason.

”And now, pray, tell me further of the nature of the Way Above as now it is [for me].” In the Finnish translation this is literally: ”And now, please, tell me more about the Way Upward, as it appears to me.” This speaks to me strongly, as I often come back to the basic idea of ”the human perspective” regarding spiritual matters; how limited our minds are to comprehend all that depth and vastness (at least at the current stage), and how the way we see anything, the world/reality/God etc., is all ”sifted” through the limited human comprehension. This is of course very obvious and pretty much goes without saying, but I tend to remind myself of it, as it feels like a useful tool in itself that can pave way for a ”bigger picture”.

The second part can mean of course physical death, but it could be seen as a depiction of spiritual mortification as well, in which one's aim is to go through the process of death while alive. It's a very demanding process and it can be done in many ways, and with differing intensities in one's life. I would say that mortification in one way or another is crucial in any serious spiritual practice.

”...first thou surrenderest the body by itself unto the work of change”; I feel that in the more spiritual sense this could mean simply shifting ones focus away from the immediate body. The constant change equals constant death (and rebirth), and it can be very helpful if we can on some level ”let go” of our material body, just literally ”surrender it unto the work of change”, since our bodies and whole existence are very much ”in the work of change” already. How we feel about it, or how we would like things to be, doesn't really matter. For someone like myself this is quite hard, as I definitely haven't made my peace with physical death entirely, and I'm even a bit ashamed to admit how strongly I sometimes dread the changing of times and things like aging. This might be related also to my tendency to nostalgia. Very humane things, I suppose. But anyway, I feel that in these things there are clear obstacles for me, and I do try to work on them.

Anyway, ideally, if we ”let go” – lovingly, without zealousness or elements of self-harm – parts of our lower self's constitution find their natural places in the whole. Just like in physical death our bodies dissolve and different components find ”new tasks” in nature organically. I see a link between ”lower forces” that govern such processes and the Daimon mentioned in the text.

”The body's senses next pass back into their sources, becoming separate, and resurrect as energies; and passion and desire withdraw unto that nature which is void of reason.” There are many esoteric teachings regarding life after death. I often go back to the idea of the human constitution dissolving, and from there the higher elements continue their journey upwards in new forms, and the lower elements become ”devoid of spirit” in a way, potentially becoming a seedbed for something else to be born from, just like dead organic matter can fertilize the soil.
"Ja kun minun kirkkauteni kulkee ohitse, asetan minä sinut kallion rotkoon ja peitän sinut kädelläni, kunnes olen kulkenut ohi.
Kun minä sitten siirrän pois käteni, näet sinä minun selkäpuoleni; mutta minun kasvojani ei voi kenkään katsoa."
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Re: Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

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There seems to be at least one sentence almost exactly the same as on fra Beshiira's commentary, but I chose to keep it never-the-less as I felt this take on the verse became in part a whole in itself.
[24] "You have taught me all things well, o mind, just as I wanted. But tell me again <about> the way up; tell me how it happens."
Way up obviously means ascension, which requires the process of death while alive, as we see in the following lines.
To this Poimanderes said: "First, in releasing the material body you give the body itself over to alteration, and the form that you used to have vanishes."
Surrendering to death means letting go of the old forms, forms that doesn't serve anymore, forms that limit the capabilities one would be able to serve the Master with (mind you the service can be done in less obvious ways, and thus too strict mortification becomes an obstacle rather than a service). These alterations that take place are the processes observed by the alchemists amongst the wide spectrum of occultists. Ofcourse all mythologies depict these processes, but the emphasis of alchemists reveal quite neatly the idea of one soul materia going through several processes, taking many forms, if the initial & gentle openness to death is allowed.

Material body can be interpreted in two different ways that support each other. First there is the interpretation of it meaning the finer materia - linga sharira - which is the powers of the body. If these powers will be freed from serving a form they have been set to serve by several partially unconscious factors, for example ancestral preferences, then they can be devotionally reset to serve a higher ideal. Some ancient Greeks philosophers have been known to take students on the basis of their outer beauty, thinking they have sort of a good soil of virtues to work on. But if the outer beauty is only ancestral, coming from ancestral virtues rather than the individuals own strive to fulfill those virtues although they may well come more easily from good karma running in the family, such virtue are corrupted with equal ease. Here we can see an example why collecting good karma is not a good thing either. Bad karma gives possibilities to grow amidst dire circumstances, although it is clearly harder to strive from there. Good karma hides the challenge better and lures people in to ignorance with greater ease. Annihilation of karma is the way to go, and it is achieved by ethical strive to "die from the world", for the world is created within the karmic web.

"To the demon you give over your temperament, now inactive."
One's temperament is now given an instrumental value, and thus it is given a passive role. One who approaches the world from a reactive basis does not train to recognize their own Will, and could be interpreted to be lead by their temperamental inclination alone closing the possibility to find a union between otherness and that which is familiar to oneself, i.e. temperamental. Here, on the contrary, one's temperament is set to be used by the Master - the d(a)emon - in the Great Work. This will allow the temperament to alter as energetical changes of linga sharira take place. Thus the temperamental emphases of Black, Red & White aspect may vary along the path of an individual.

The demon could be interpreted as Satan, the Lord of the Masks, the shadowy countenance of the Mercurial spirit which is the one materia the alchemist works through. Mercury as the Psychopomp again can be seen as the arc of the soul, the abstraction of matter (i.e. powers) of an individual. One's linga sharira is the phallic form of this materia, phallic meaning here the sword-like directive form of otherwise abstract pool of energy. Linga sharira gives the direction towards the form, which corresponds to the Master giving direction and meaning to the student.
"The body's senses rise up and flow back to their particular sources, becoming separate parts and mingling again with the energies."
The individual's inner senses are revealed as the outer senses are not given power to drape the inner world from view. This leads to attaining magical powers, clairvoyance, clairaudience etc. As the old warnings say, these powers should not be sought for their own sake, because then the magic powers becomes rather a sickness than a tool.

Becoming separate parts means the student begin to use their inner eye with increasing clarity as the process goes on, and thus it is also in language more clearly separated from the outer senses. The inner senses mingle with the energies meaning the inner senses start to adjust to the abstraction of the powers and the reforming of the energies in to a language of the soul. Thus we begin to see meaningful things within our soul, and we can begin to work on those meanings by introspection, by self-reflection to realize the meaning and the challenge hidden within the symbols. When the individual process continues long enough, perhaps souls of greater bodies (lodges, culture areas, the globe at large) can be intimately worked with these inner powers.
"And feeling and longing go on towards irrational nature."
I believe this means our energetical body and kama rupa having been sacrificed to the mystical spheres of the Masters, those lower bodies start to work more and more exclusively to transcend the world of forms to annihilate the karma of the world. What interests me here greatly is the idea of celibate devotees: is it an insufficient devotion and sacrifice that leads to perversions and impossible hardship in trying to achieve a working celibacy, or is it just a matter of individual dharma that will not allow some people the path of celibacy?
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
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Re: Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

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Hermes Trismegistus wrote:25. And thus it is that man doth speed his way thereafter upwards through the Harmony.

To the first zone he gives the Energy of Growth and Waning; unto the second [zone], Device of Evils [now] de-energized; unto the third, the Guile of the Desires de-energized; unto the fourth, his Domineering Arrogance, [also] de-energized; unto the fifth, unholy Daring and the Rashness of Audacity, de-energized; unto the sixth, Striving for Wealth by evil means, deprived of its aggrandizement; and to the seventh zone, Ensnaring Falsehood, de-energized.

Well this continues the theme of letting go of the previous verse.

It's noteworthy that moving ”upwards through the Harmony” happens by the means of letting go, or abandoning. Then we see a structure or order in which this happens. These stages are, not so surprisingly, seven in number. I presume that we could talk about initiations here again.

About this mentioned de-energization; I take it that it could also mean purifying. E.g. the ”Device of Evils” can be seen as a challenge, something that is ”inherently” part of the occult student, and with which the student learns to live, and the ”root” of which he learns to channel in constructive ways. Little by little he purifies this ”Device” (and his shadow self in general, as well as his whole constitution), and whatever useful he finds is channeled into higher forms, and the rest is discarded. Thus, the ”Device” becomes de-energized, as what has been substantial and helpful for the ascension process has been put to use, and the rest must be let go of.

It's as if someone gets a fundamental realization of how it is absolutely necessary to overcome some personal problems/petty traits/blind needs etc., and that those must not be cherished even if the lower self would love it. For example, a person might get a living understanding of the importance of avoiding violence, and how this trait must be let go of. It's in a way easy to understand that initiations might work in this way – much harder task to accomplish them in one's life. Still, as clichéd as it may sound, letting go, in the right way, might just be the only way to grow. And the question of what the right way is, then, might make up a great deal of our occult paths.
"Ja kun minun kirkkauteni kulkee ohitse, asetan minä sinut kallion rotkoon ja peitän sinut kädelläni, kunnes olen kulkenut ohi.
Kun minä sitten siirrän pois käteni, näet sinä minun selkäpuoleni; mutta minun kasvojani ei voi kenkään katsoa."
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Re: Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

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Poimandres wrote:[25] "Thence the human being rushes up through the cosmic framework,"
This thousands of years old text reads like an excerpt from a science fiction novel because the metaphysical composition of the outer world as a Satanic machination is the archetypal idea behind all machines and infact all outer manifestation, which works under the mechanical rule of form and karma. These dark Satanic Mills, as William Blake called them, can be interpreted in esoteric context as the machination of initiations through which the Adversary spirit sets us in its cunning trials. Blake's expression have been often interpreted quite understandably as the rationalism (for example coming from academical cultural elitism) seeping in to every crevice and taking full control, destroying soulful thought and ability to prophetise etc. But I think the idea can be extended to everything where the vivid divine power is suppressed in to stagnation.*

For example, people often feel this need to break free from rational behaviour and set themselves free by following only their impulses and the sensations of emotions. Yet it is only jumping out of the frying pan into the fire because the same mechanical world is metaphysically behind the world of feelings also. One may feel a momentary ease and some sort of liberative reactions happening in their soul and their bodies, but the reaction is only the nature of the mechanics of destroying by letting go (releasing power from forms, thus the feelings of it appearing often in the cloak of liberation of death). It would be as nonsensical to say that one would find liberation by totally surrendering to feelings, as it would be to claim finding liberation by the extreme violence of suicide. Both of them miss the narrow gate, as the experience of life can show to one, who is candid enough to see nuances, how true liberation is only found beyond these dark Satanic Mills, which the Mills actually point towards in their Satanic reverse way. Behind the mechanical world of dualism, between the self and the other, there's this centerpoint on which the Hieroglyphic Key is to be used for, and to which the Key in itself points to. Using the Key will open the gate of the initiations to the world beyond the cosmic framework. And Satan rejoyces.

As a curiosity, here we have then Princess, now the Queen of Denmark, referencing Blake's expression of the machination motif recurring in The Scouring of the Shire in Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings.
Poimandres wrote:"at the first zone surrendering the energy of increase and decrease;"
The first step through the cosmic framework is to cease approaching life in a reactive way. This means that when there's a problem, something other, you tend to shun from it and try again from the exact opposite direction. Such reactions only reproduce the exactly same problem, just through different outer forms. I already gave an example of this above when talking about reacting in to thing by following only one's impulses and the feelings that consequently rise.

This is about the flow of power, the waning and the waxing of the Moon, a Lunar initiation.
Poimandres wrote:"at the second evil machination, a device now inactive;"
When we will deny ourselves the ping-pong existence referred to in the previous zone, we cease giving power to the purely mechanical parts of ourselves. This will give way to the voice of silence - the Higher Self. But the device can be started again by indulging in the lower world. It is only inactive, not destroyed. Actually, it is activated even by the voice of the Master, for when we feel or think, this device is awakend to mechanically process the Gnosis and give form to it. Thus the device is actually the lower triangle of the Hieroglyphic Key. This "evil machination" is the ego, with a lower case.

As the two opposites have been joined in this zone, after ceasing to be dominated by the movement between the extremes, we are here at the cross of the two poles. Thus this is the self-sacrificing initiation of Mars.
Poimandres wrote:"at the third the illusion of longing, now inactive;"
As the racket of the device has ceased and the voice of the Master can be heard again, the sense of true home have been reached. Longing for stars is no more a distant dream, but you are actually in touch with your Star. Yet it is a process that takes a long time, and we often are still slaves to our lower selves, and thus there can be quite a bit of longing in one's life. But now we have all the answers within our reach and the longing of the lower self can be answered to by rigorous work. For the thousand time on this forum, I am to repeat the Zen proverb: “Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.”

The messenger, the guide of souls is present, thus this is an initiation of Mercury.
Poimandres wrote:"at the fourth the ruler's arrogance, now freed of excess;"
As there is no more longing, for the lower and the higher selves have been set to perfectly answer to each other, there is no more misplaced authority, or thirst to correct things in an unbalanced or too eager a way. Ruler, i.e. the superego (an aspect of the Higher self, if you will), no more appears unjust in any way.

An initiation of Jupiter.
Poimandres wrote:"at the fifth unholy presumption and darking recklessness;"
In this area the metaphysical realities have been sharpened to the inner eye to a degree that the distortions of one's own soul have become acknowledged. The previous area's ruler's arrogance being an example of such a distortion. Now there are clarity to things and knowing one's own essence by the perfected Hieros Gamos of the lower and the Higher self in the previous area, one can see the world from the inside without the mediating part, one's soul giving too explicit distortions. It is as if the oculus of one's own soul have now been calibrated according to the individual soul. This is what makes people see the future, to prophetise. Thus one is free from presumption for the realities and limits are clear, beautiful, and free from recklessness for the consequences are obvious.

An initiation of Venus.
Poimandres wrote:"at the sixth the evil impulses that come from wealth, now inactive;"
Wealth is power and devotion put in to form. When the above areas of clarity have been truly achieved, we no more give value even to the objects of our devotion over what is the most beneficient i.e. ethical solution. Even the temples we have built are free to be demolished rather than carrying a crudge over an outer form, and a student we have given much of our time is free to sever ties as no work we have done ever truly goes to waste.

This is an Saturnian initiations, where death rules justly over all form.
Poimandres wrote:"and at the seventh zone the deceit that lies in ambush."
There are no one to win in oneness. The initiated has understood the rhythm and grace the initiations are offered, and it is all there is to the lower world. No other place can an ambush take place in, and no one does an ambush serve.

This is an initiation of the Sun for the whole is understood as it is, and there is no separate part in the whole to ambush.


* These states of stagnation are the snares the Hierophant Satan tries the people with, all of which must be passed before the initiation at hand can be taken. They are not mere trials of abstination, but trials evaluating one's ability to carry the living spirit, which the trap pits of stagnation are marking the failure of. These are the empty shells where from the fiery living spirit escapes. Only through the power poured by human falures can these shells or pits gain any life, for then their meaning is to initiate the devotees through teaching the secrets of these traps in a process of multiple incarnations worth of trial and error. These pits are demons as teachers.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
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Re: Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

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Hermes Trismegistus wrote:26. And then, with all the energisings of the harmony stript from him, clothed in his proper Power, he cometh to that Nature which belongs unto the Eighth, and there with those-that-are hymneth the Father.

They who are there welcome his coming there with joy; and he, made like to them that sojourn there, doth further hear the Powers who are above the Nature that belongs unto the Eighth, singing their songs of praise to God in language of their own.

And then they, in a band, go to the Father home; of their own selves they make surrender of themselves to Powers, and [thus] becoming Powers they are in God. This the good end for those who have gained Gnosis - to be made one with God.

Why shouldst thou then delay? Must it not be, since thou hast all received, that thou shouldst to the worthy point the way, in order that through thee the race of mortal kind may by [thy] God be saved?

The first paragraph seems quite âtmic, with all the mentions of Power and transcending the preceding spheres. Also makes me think of again what I've mentioned a few times on the Finnish forum at least; the idea from orthodox christianity that angels exist in a state where their entire beings ”are liturgy” (cf. ”there with those-that-are hymneth the Father”).

The second paragraph makes me think of a warm welcome to a loving brotherhood. It takes great effort to be accepted, but with steady, unselfish and loving striving, such initiation is possible for a human being to achieve; and those who have already achieved, always welcome the newcomer with open arms. (And I'm not talking about any ”physical”, ”visible” societies here in the world so to say.)

The third one, especially the last sentence, again could be a summary of the whole Poimandres text.

The fourth paragraph felt very touching when I first read it. I take it that the ”pointing the way” part doesn't have to mean that one would start to act like a teacher to others, or feel somehow especially awakened compared to the ”grey mass of other people”. I read it along the lines of this: ”Why delay, why waste your time, when the reality of God and Spirit is so close, almost just waiting for you to reach for it and grasp it? And you can help others, not by preaching some gospel on a streetcorner, but you'll 'show the way' by living out the way, by making a living reality of what you have learned.” A boddhisattvic tone can be read from this too.

”...in order that through thee the race of mortal kind may by [thy] God be saved.” Sounds immense, and immense it is. But yes, it is the teaching of occultism, that we can be such wonderful tools indeed; (in Christian terms) we can help others in their ”salvation”, we can become living, active positive forces in the world. If only we want it.
"Ja kun minun kirkkauteni kulkee ohitse, asetan minä sinut kallion rotkoon ja peitän sinut kädelläni, kunnes olen kulkenut ohi.
Kun minä sitten siirrän pois käteni, näet sinä minun selkäpuoleni; mutta minun kasvojani ei voi kenkään katsoa."
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Re: Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

Post by Smaragd »

Poimandres wrote:[26] "And then, stripped of the effects of the cosmis framework, the human enters the region of the ogdoad; he has his own proper power, and along with the blessed he hymns the father."
Rising above the phenomenal cosmos, and thus also the distortions of one's subjective lense, the occultist has reached the clarity of the Self. This clarity is one's "own proper power", which is not diluted by the distortions. These distortions are not only exaggerations, but because of the vast metaphysical leaps between the noumena and the phenomenal, the whole lense, that is the cosmic machination, steals the light and imitates the source in its own mechanical way. It is a seriously warped source, borrowed light instead of earned, exoteric rather than esoteric.

Grounded and easily understood example of this is straight on aping some well founded works of art. Many of us may recognize the difference between artwork that has aped another, formal, source in a very coarse way, and an artwork that may have taken alot of influence around itself, the existing forms, but has a recognizable individual core. Those who know their own core hymn the father, the seed, rather than some outer forms. Repeating the outer forms will only give birth to hollow shells.

The clarity in the sense of stability is reflected by the ogdoad, an even number and thus a fixed position beyond the revolving planetary powers. I believe we are talking about the monad which Blavatsky pointed to be beyond the seven principles 1+7. The seven sons are to a degree cosmic divinities, the creators of it, and the hidden Sun beyond them is the Celestial Man, the Logos, corresponding to the Self.
Poimandres wrote:"Those present there rejoice together in his presence, and, having become like his companions,"
The rejoicing is the inspiration, the hidden call of one's individual path, the occult world opening before one's eyes. It is the answer to the longing.
Poimandres wrote:"he also hears certain powers that exist beyond the ogdoadic region and hymn god with sweet voice. They rise up to the father in order and surrender themselves to the powers, and, having become powers, they enter into god. This is the final good for those who have received knowledge: to be made god. Why do you still delay? Having learned all this, should you not become guide to the worthy so that through you the human race might be saved by god?""
As we know from the art example, artists who have to a degree reached this core individuality are hardly gods or adepts. They have practiced well to reach some portions of their individuality, but often times there is still some lack that prevent them from working in more occult ways. They are yet to hear the call of the central lodge, Great White Brotherhood, the call of the Masters, to set their work to serve the essence of occultism to the fullest extent. Perhaps boddhisattva is a good term here, as Beshiira pointed out.

This line beyond the ogdoad seems to hint the great mystery concealed in the purest hatred towards god. When one has been virtuous and blessed, as Poimandres says, revered the heavens, taken part of the hymns and reached the clarity of the Self, there is at least a seeming danger of all this light turning in to a stagnant superficial glory of self-worth in the eyes of the virtuous god. And here the boddhisattva path seems to truly open as the student can choose to rise above the Logos, above the suffering allowed by the One source, and within such pride be damned to fall back down to the world to shine light to the fellow men as did Lucifer and Azazel according to the myth. This path will truly lead above Logos, for it is the way of annihilation, the path of the return to the absolute, to mahapralaya. Blavatsky or the Theosophical Masters, I can not recall now, pointed how the student shouldn't or couldn't settle for the Christian heaven, the devachan. The difference between Nirvāṇa and devachan can be seen in the self-damning or truly self-sarcrificing path of the boddhisattva aiming towards the long rest, which I claim is the path of the united hands as it requires the highest Luciferian bride to overcome the safety of heavens and mere individuation, and the ability to work with the heavens in reverence. All this aiming to a state without inner conflict within the seemingly paradoxal setting. Below the united hands there are the lonely moon path (left hand path), where the occult invitations have not been truly answered to, or it has not been heard properly leaving the student to the individuation stage at best; and then there are the eager, blue eyed students of the Sun (right hand path), where great ground work is laid out, yet bravery, empathy, purest hate, understanding, love and self-sacrifice doesn't quite transcend in to the brilliancy of the fourth and the fifth initiation (cf. Adept, Johannes Nefastos) that are guarded by Lucifer-Satan.

Metaphysically it is quite hard to point this area beyond the ogdoad. I guess the informing spirits of the seven hold commune there. Ervast spoke of this regarding his own studies, but it might be misleading to speak of the number seven here anymore. Yet for example Secret Doctrine speaks of the seven sons of the seven sons, so on its authority this might be a possible interpretation.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
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Beshiira
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Re: Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

Post by Beshiira »

Hermes Trismegistus wrote:27. This when He'd said, Man-Shepherd mingled with the Powers.

But I, with thanks and blessings unto the Father of the universal [Powers], was freed, full of the power he had poured into me, and full of what He'd taught me of the nature of the All and of the loftiest Vision.

And I began to preach unto men the Beauty of Devotion and of Gnosis:

O ye people, earth-born folk, ye who have given yourselves to drunkenness and sleep and ignorance of God, be sober now, cease from your surfeit, cease to be glamoured by irrational sleep!

This verse seems highlightedly boddhisattvic. Poimandres, having shown Hermes the ”loftiest Vision”, merges with the Powers and perhaps seemingly ”disappears”. All has been taught (for now, at least), and the divine work must be continued by the student. It's as if no more words are needed, because the teacher is now to be found always in the heart of the student. From this point on it's all about acting upon the inspiration.

The last paragraph is like a continuation to the ending of the previous verse. Quite self-explanatory, yet powerful words. The last sentence is in the new Finnish version as follows: ”Return to sobriety/clarity, stop your drunkenness, because you are being seduced by the senseless sleepiness.” It's intriguing that material one-sidedness is likened to drunkenness. Also it's specified as ”senseless sleepiness” (or ”irrational sleep”); meaning that there might be a form of ”sensible sleepiness/drunkenness too”. Makes me think of the manifold nature of mâyâ – it can be devouring delusion and treacherous illusion, but also like a form of joufyl playing. The ”right” kind of attitude to the ”illusion” can lead us to the Divine, us the ”earth-born folk”.
"Ja kun minun kirkkauteni kulkee ohitse, asetan minä sinut kallion rotkoon ja peitän sinut kädelläni, kunnes olen kulkenut ohi.
Kun minä sitten siirrän pois käteni, näet sinä minun selkäpuoleni; mutta minun kasvojani ei voi kenkään katsoa."
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Smaragd
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Re: Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

Post by Smaragd »

[27] As he was saying this to me, Poimandres joined with the powers.
Any given presence or anthropomorphic expression of higher entities are emphases and differentiations from the perfectly harmonious world of spirit. Thus Poimandres returns to its normal state of working from the occult bodies, amongst its equals, towards the world rather than reaching in to a specific form. These rare events of higher entities taking more specific form than is usual can be respected by the student by learning to reach to the Master in the formless. Such respect will bring the student closer to being one with their Master. In this idea of reaching to the formless we come back to the idea of the voice of silence, to which the Hieroglyphic Key gives a balanced access to.
Then he sent me forth, empowered and instructed on the nature of the universe and on the supreme vision, after I had given thanks to the father of all and praised him.
Learning the metaphysical basics, the basic elements that create the world, teaches a solemn student the ability to see through all the complexes that are created from the synthesis of these elements. Mere theoretical coldness towards the elements will not be enough (although it is one aspect that is needed) because it is the reverence and Love which will allow the individual proper access to the intuitive guidance of buddhi-manas that will show to the rational mind how the elements are arranged in each moment. Thus the thanking and praising of the father is not mere good manners and dead customs, but have an actual reason, which on the other hand should reflect on the virtuous conduct of everyday life.
And I began proclaiming to mankind the beauty of reverence and knowledge: "People, earthborn men, you who have surrendered yourserlves to drunkenness and sleep and ignorance of god, make yourselves sober and end your drunken sickness, for you are bewitched in unreasoning sleep."
Drunkenness means the scrambled mind which has not gained the clarity of the basic elements nor the reverence by which a human being can turn the gained knowledge in to practice as I interpreted above.

The human condition looks indeed like a bewitched sleep where reasoning with the basic elements is not allowed. Only reasoning that is allowed is the one ruled by our own pathologies. A truly wretched condition, where only the depths of Satanism seems to give the answers. Perhaps such perspective on the world presents us a challenge where the aspiring bodhisattva must not fall in to despair, remain from throwing pearls to the swine, and lean on the Satanic ideal of the fifth point on the sevenfold basis of the Star of Azazel.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
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