Esotericism and corporeality

Putting together ones life with the modern world.
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Aquila
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Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Aquila »

In many religious or esoteric worldviews the human body is seen as the vessel of the spirit or soul. It might be the result of karmic processes or other laws that affect the matter and what forms it takes.

Unlike in the theosophical tradition, the system of Star of Azazel does not count the material body as one of the basic principles (the difference between linga sharira and sthula sharira). Yet we could say that our body has a deep connection, or oneness with Earth and what it represents as an esoteric concept and potentiality of the spiritual principles to manifest.

What does having a bodily being mean to you? If you want to open up your relationship to bodily existence feel free to do so but it is ok to write on more general level as well.

If we accept oneness and unity as the basic reality, where do we draw the line between body and spirit?

How do we treat our bodies ethically? How much can we allow these ethics to affect our opinions toward other people and their different relationships with their physical being?

How does death affect the body and how do you view the relation and difference between a living and a dead body?


These are some of the questions to help thinking about the topic. Other ideas and questions related to the topic are welcome!
Kenazis
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Kenazis »

Interesting topic indeed. I'll try to write something.

I see oneness, unity and holism being inseparable and practically pretty much the same things. So, physicality can't be counted out even aiming to live and dive wholly into the (so called) spiritual life. The importance of physical body can be viewed from different angles. For example anything we do in physical plane we use our physical bodies to do these things. Strong and healthy body is more functional and does the needed thing better than weak and sick body. Healthy brains function better and as brains are heavily linked to our emotions and intelligence, it is pretty self-evident why this is a good thing.

I see that human stops being human when we count out one of our principles, even the linga sharira is not counted main principles in the hieroglyphical key model, if we don't have physical bodies we are no more humans (at least in common sense here on Earth). Same is with every principle and body. We are not humans if we don't have astral body or mental body. So, can we draw the line between body and spirit while on Earth?

”How do we treat our bodies ethically? How much can we allow these ethics to affect our opinions toward other people and their different relationships with their physical being?” This one is complex and interesting, but I'll let this pass from next post(s).

At least now, I see physical body the vehicle for the spirit (I know this has problems and is paradoxical in some sense for what is written above...), so, the dead body is empty shell and back to earth it should go (or smoke in the sky). I haven't seen anybody die and I have never seen a dead human body. This makes the question pretty hard to answer and I don't know would these experiences change my view and how much.
"We live for the woods and the moon and the night"
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Nefastos
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Nefastos »

Kenazis wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:47 amI see that human stops being human when we count out one of our principles, even the linga sharira is not counted main principles in the hieroglyphical key model, if we don't have physical bodies we are no more humans (at least in common sense here on Earth).

Linga sharîra is included in the Hieroglyphic Key, as the downmost point of the lower triangle. It hence corresponds to the uppermost point of the higher triangle that represents âtma. Thus there is a correspondence between these, the completely bodiless point that is the upanishadic Self, and the completely substantial point that is the Otherness we see as physical world, physical bodies.

Linga sharîra as our "true" body is very important point to consider in the SoA model. The apparent physical body of sthûla sharîra is no thing by itself, which is why it is not the part of the sevenfold model. It is like an extension of linga sharîra, a garment which could be shed, and a human being would still continue being one. Of course, it serves a purpose, as an eggshell of karmic making, giving us solidity in the form of otherness, when we are not yet capable of living an independent life. Thus it is also like a house. And the most of us are very happy about the possibility to live in a good house, which is sound and beautiful, able to hold our belongingings, and giving us shelter.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Kavi
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Kavi »

I have always viewed hieroglyphic key that consists also of linga sharîra.
To me I have tried to find balance on mind and matter from idea that they are revealed or hidden form of each other.

I think yoga or monk/nun-like contemplative work can be seen as a way that brings active form of idleness and passive form of diligence into holistic form of the Work.

I think lot of mundane work in world do not need any thoughts given for instance how it influence our environment and ourselves.
But we keep doing it and end up filling our endless desire through consumerism. To fill paradoxically the most extreme idealist form of idealism with things our lower self endlessly desires.

There ought to be hermetic approach in bringing two together in this question too in my opinion.
But it can happen through dialectical work and thinking, as we satanist at least acknowledge this whether we realize or don't.
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Kenazis »

Nefastos wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:59 pm
Kenazis wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:47 amI see that human stops being human when we count out one of our principles, even the linga sharira is not counted main principles in the hieroglyphical key model, if we don't have physical bodies we are no more humans (at least in common sense here on Earth).
Linga sharîra is included in the Hieroglyphic Key, as the downmost point of the lower triangle.
Oops...I meant to write Sthula sharîra and not Linga sharîra. My mistake, but essential correction.
"We live for the woods and the moon and the night"
Kenazis
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Kenazis »

Nefastos wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:59 pm Linga sharîra as our "true" body is very important point to consider in the SoA model. The apparent physical body of sthûla sharîra is no thing by itself, which is why it is not the part of the sevenfold model. It is like an extension of linga sharîra, a garment which could be shed, and a human being would still continue being one. Of course, it serves a purpose, as an eggshell of karmic making, giving us solidity in the form of otherness, when we are not yet capable of living an independent life. Thus it is also like a house. And the most of us are very happy about the possibility to live in a good house, which is sound and beautiful, able to hold our belongingings, and giving us shelter.
I have always liked the different emphasis (different to traditional Theosophy) of SoA-model where sthûla sharîra is "replaced" by linga sharîra. This slight chance of perspective is very important one and I think it is one of those possible heureka-moments for people new to this idea. However, I think there is also slightly bigger change of seeing physical body as mere prison and negative thing when it is not included. But the opposite is also possible that it will be given too much emphasis when it is included.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Polyhymnia »

Kavi wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:34 pm
I think yoga or monk/nun-like contemplative work can be seen as a way that brings active form of idleness and passive form of diligence into holistic form of the Work.
I very much agree with this. I often feel like when I'm physically practicing yoga that I'm working both my sthula sharira and my linga sharira, and it's exercising the latter which gives my body its actual vitality, not the former. Unless it's swimming, activities of an exclusively physical natural just serve to exhaust me these days. Except I've even come to view swimming as a holy act. For me, the line between body and spirit diminishes increasingly every day.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Nefastos
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Nefastos »

Kenazis wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:44 pmI have always liked the different emphasis (different to traditional Theosophy) of SoA-model where sthûla sharîra is "replaced" by linga sharîra.

In exoteric theosophy, the both are listed as principles, but the SoA model actually follows Blavatsky's esoteric model in this regard, as can be seen from this tabulation. (Still, it differs from it in a fact that âtma is still considered a valid principle, which holds within it the eighth & ninth principles of monad & aura. In this way, the SoA model is both a sevenfold and ninefold system. And tenfold, in case one wants to consider also the dense physical body of sthûla sharîra.)

Kenazis wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:44 pmThis slight chance of perspective is very important one and I think it is one of those possible heureka-moments for people new to this idea. However, I think there is also slightly bigger change of seeing physical body as mere prison and negative thing when it is not included. But the opposite is also possible that it will be given too much emphasis when it is included.

I think you are right in both of these points. This is one of the ways how my own world view is "too Satanic" to suggest for the optimal: in case one is able to consider the dense physical as equally holy with the others, it should be done. My personal experience is that it is too limiting to be loved unconditionally, but that thorn or splinter most likely tells more of me than it tells of the world. One should aim for unblemished unity, finding divine love and peace from every place & modus of existence.

Be it how it may, I would strongly suggest practical occultists (as well as deep-end metaphysicians) to consider what the linga sharîra really is. It is not an intuitive answer for many, but it is extremely important a concept for practical occultism. That there is a body of undifferentiated, or more precisely, less differentiated energetical matter, that is both the source and the dynamic essence for the physical vehicle we can see & touch & smell. Especially the White aspect working starts quickly to come closer to this energetical self, when one uses the tantric practices that deal with the energetical physical side that has very little to do with muscles, but quite a lot with nerves.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Soror O
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Soror O »

Delighted to witness this topic, as the body/spirit dualism still lingers on - more or less consciously - within the mystic thought.

To me my physical body is a holy rubics cube which the spirit has arranged and which is solved by the spirit. It is a hilariously tragic, muddy tempel, but equally holy. One third of this incarnation, it has been easier for me to live outside the body than within it and I spent decates experiencing that what happened to the body did not happen to me (as I wasn't there, but up "above"). I was detached until I fell/crushed into the body and to my amazement our destinies were intertwined. The body teached me a lot of stuff about being a human, the pleasure and the suffering (which are all the same, in the end). The body really is the one which ascends as the spirit descents - both are equally needed to balance each other out (literally, heh). But don't take my mess up word for it.
Nefastos wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:53 pm when one uses the tantric practices that deal with the energetical physical side that has very little to do with muscles, but quite a lot with nerves.
My annoying geeky, besserwisser temperament would like to make a self-evident remark that one ought not to overlook the muscles for they are connected to the psychical nerves - and the non-psychical ones alike.
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.
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Nefastos
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Nefastos »

Soror O wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:47 pm
Nefastos wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:53 pmwhen one uses the tantric practices that deal with the energetical physical side that has very little to do with muscles, but quite a lot with nerves.


My annoying geeky, besserwisser temperament would like to make a self-evident remark that one ought not to overlook the muscles for they are connected to the psychical nerves - and the non-psychical ones alike.

Definitely; I too do my own little muscle training practices daily. In my books I have argued against those who would seek to abolish physical aspects altogether, that to do so would simply be fettering via antithesis. The best way to avoid become fettered is "to render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's."

But for an occultist they are the nerve centers that are the most important parts of sthûla sharîra, since they are direct correspondences of the energetic gateways called chakras, or cakrams. The latter form one's linga sharîra. My mind will live on long after these muscles have all atrophied and turned to ash, but those energy portals will go through their changes and continue existing after such bodily death. Nerves are the primary way to learn to live beyond corporeal life. They reach for kâma rupa, the animating soul. Our modern culture is completely fascinated of building muscles (sthûla sharîra) and equally uninterested of trainings one's nerves with the best emotional characteristics (passion, patience, compassion, and other buddhic – which means lasting – qualities).
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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