BEING A TRANSEXUAL AND COSMETIC SURGERY?

Putting together ones life with the modern world.
Tephra
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Re: BEING A TRANSEXUAL AND COSMETIC SURGERY?

Post by Tephra »

Wyrmfang wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:53 pm When it comes to the topic itself, there is one issue I´m particularly interested in. Transsexuality still operates within the male/female dyad, as do some forms of non-binary sex. However, there are also non-binary people who experience that the male/female binary does not apply to them at all but they are something else entirely. I would be interested if there are any such people on the forum or people who know well this kind of non-binary people who are into esotericism. At least at the surface the conception itself challenges the polar world-view inherent in at least most forms of esotericism.
As a non-binary person, I've always been a bit confused about the emphasis on the gender/sex binary among esotericism-related discussion even nowadays. Since spirituality and esotericism often aims to transcend some worldly and/or physical qualities and reach stances that are not restricted by them, very strict binary worldview feels somehow counterintuitive.
I totally understand the cruciality of masculine and feminine in creation myths and such. However, when it comes to human individuals, not more abstract or archetypal concepts, those aspects can seem unnecessarily rigid and I can imagine that fixating to them and their expression can possibly hinder a more holistic approach to one's self.

(Un)fortunately I am a person who has always been quite an outsider due to several traits that are not even necessarily linked to one another. Gender non-conformity has been one of those. When I was younger, I used to be arrogant and think that sticking to socially conventional lifestyle (including gender stereotypes) would make a person somehow one of a lower level than someone, who is challenging the mundane ways of thinking. Nowadays it feels that being an outsider is mostly a curse - yes, you can see quite brightly through some, often "false-seeming" social structures, but often it is exhausting to always pave your own way (concerning gender, spirituality, career, etc.) - and have no choice. For some extent, I kind of envy those people that are empowered (in an esoteric or some other way) by their masculinity or femininity and for whom it is a crucial part of their identity, because for myself that has always felt very alien.

I am mostly straight-passing, although I don't really label myself since my attraction towards other people is quite complex and is directed more towards certain type of people than sex/gender, but maybe the outsiderness causes that I tend to tilt towards people (and philosophy, literature, aesthetic, concepts) that feel somehow familiar and comforting instead of opposite. However, within those circumstances, I appreciate for example intellectual opposition very much and enjoy being challenged and encouraged to strive. This approach makes the attraction feel not that straight as it may seem from the outside.

Perhaps my strong interest towards various extremes makes it so that since I contain and understand "the both extremes" of some spectrum myself, I don't need to seek them from other people. Perhaps it's because of my often theoretical way of thinking.
And yes, talking about gender, extremes and esotericism, asceticism has been my special interest for a very long time. It probably has also something to do with the idea that ascetic, a hermit, can somehow be socially “self-sufficient” and thus doesn’t fall in some kind of duality or polarity because the only polarity they need is the spiritual/nonhuman, so they, at least in some very idealistic way, can have transcended the mundane and gender. If I remember right, Nefastos has been writing something concerning this in chapter about Kumâra in Saatanan seitsemät kasvot. For me, it doesn’t necessarily mean asexuality or asociality but that one is primarily facing the spiritual/nonhuman realm instead of mundane.

Of course one should be able to separate tradition, literature and more personal discussion, each of which have their own characteristics concerning this issue. The latter is the one from which these thoughts have stemmed. Some of my discomfort concerning the issue is probably personal due to the difficulty to find any relatable representation in the discourse where man, woman, masculine and feminine seem to be in such a spotlight, for some other people the relatability is the reason why these concepts are familiar and easy to grasp. It can be some kind of cliché that man is the default human and woman is the other, but I can imagine that for many non-men interested in esotericism that kind of division (where qualities of a female practitioner are always somehow linked to their femaleness) in both many traditions and also often in modern esotericism can be not so approachable.

Well, despite being non-binary has been something I've experienced more or less my whole life (as I wrote, this, as many more aspects of my life, are not choices), there is always more to explore, understand and contemplate. The subject is incredibly vast and, as some general queerness, affects life quite fundamentally. Probably some other non-binary person can experience their identity in some completely different way. I just wanted to share a glimpse to my thoughts about gender and esotericism in my life. English is not my first language, so my writing can be a bit clumsy sometimes. However, if you want to ask further questions, feel free to do that.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: BEING A TRANSEXUAL AND COSMETIC SURGERY?

Post by Polyhymnia »

Tariq wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:01 pm I still fear. I worry what a person hearing about this side of me for the first time might think. I worry what a forum full of satanists might think.
For what it's worth, this satanist is grateful for how gracious and generous participants in this thread have been in sharing what I'm sure are often vulnerable thoughts. These are important discussions to have, and the input from our trans, intesex, and non-binary community members is priceless to the discussion.
Tephra wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:54 pm However, when it comes to human individuals, not more abstract or archetypal concepts, those aspects can seem unnecessarily rigid and I can imagine that fixating to them and their expression can possibly hinder a more holistic approach to one's self.
I personally believe that one of the most beautiful things of an occult path is that one has the power to choose how rigid or abstract they'd like those archetypes to be. One of the things I like the most about the SoA structure is how personalized it is for each and every individual. The ethical basis of the hieroglyphic key (working from the basis of love, understanding, and the will to do good) truly allows the most diverse array of paths to form under the same guiding principles.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Insanus
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Re: BEING A TRANSEXUAL AND COSMETIC SURGERY?

Post by Insanus »

Wyrmfang wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:53 pm When it comes to the topic itself, there is one issue I´m particularly interested in. Transsexuality still operates within the male/female dyad, as do some forms of non-binary sex. However, there are also non-binary people who experience that the male/female binary does not apply to them at all but they are something else entirely. I would be interested if there are any such people on the forum or people who know well this kind of non-binary people who are into esotericism. At least at the surface the conception itself challenges the polar world-view inherent in at least most forms of esotericism.
[/quote]

Blah, I'm more confused than when I started and I'm like 3 hours in re-writing this reply. Maybe I just erase everything and write something stupid fast.
I don't feel like I have a fixed gender identity. I think Man and Woman exist in the same space as ideas or gods, and mimicking them is just that, mimicking. I think that creation of new gender identities is also a sign that we can also start deconstructing and reconstructing gods. They might show up through us, but we are not them, as usual. The essentialism in some gender-related discussions confuses me a lot, because there's not really much of anything like that anymore if we talk about being Finnish or being a fireman or being a goth or punk or whatever and I don't see what makes it so different. The topic just seems so dangerously sensitive that I usually don't even dare to join in or ask anything. Well, I guess I've made it painfully obvious just how primitive my thinking is in this regard so feel free to shoot me with water gun of your choice.
Jumalan synnit ovat kourallinen hiekkaa ihmisen valtameressä
Yinlong
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Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: BEING A TRANSEXUAL AND COSMETIC SURGERY?

Post by Yinlong »

I think Man and Woman exist in the same space as ideas or gods, and mimicking them is just that, mimicking. I think that creation of new gender identities is also a sign that we can also start deconstructing and reconstructing gods.
Yes, I think this thinking is needed - and would be needed like you say, Insanus, further:
The essentialism in some gender-related discussions confuses me a lot, because there's not really much of anything like that anymore if we talk about being Finnish or being a fireman or being a goth or punk or whatever and I don't see what makes it so different. The topic just seems so dangerously sensitive that I usually don't even dare to join in or ask anything.
I feel also difficulties in joining the very current stream of this conversation. It's like for some stream that I'm either too much part of or alienated. The counterparts often having these conversations think I'm just joking or teasing them - for being such sensitive. I have tried to emphatically just respect their sensitivity on the subject. It's not - perhaps - even an age thing - at least entirely. It maybe, like you say, just currently very sensitive (de/re)construction of gods.
Quaerendo Invenietis - Na dìomhcuimhnich a-chaoidh - Feuer frei!
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