Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

Discussion on literature other than by the Star of Azazel.
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Smaragd
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Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

Post by Smaragd »

There’s alot of occult literature without translations to our native languages (whatever they are) or to more common languages we know of, or perhaps the originals are almost untranslatable in some respects. For example Hebrew, Aramaic, Ancient Greek, Coptic, Sanskrit, Tibetic languages, Chinese, French, German, and many more often comes up when seeking original sources. Have you considered studying a particular language or have you fantasized of studying some language to gain access to scriptures of smaller or bigger traditions of occultism?

A bonus question would be, do you see it necessary to study oneself to be half fluent in say Sanskrit to benefit from original texts, or do you see it enough for youself to do some dictionary digging when diving in to the minutiae of the original paragraphs already translated?
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
Kavi
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Re: Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

Post by Kavi »

I studied Hebrew for some time but I didn't have enough spare time to continue it. In addition it would be nice to take courses in exegetic to really understand Bible and especially old testament. My initial idea was just to get to know the Hebrew alphabet and some words so I could use them in Work.
I have had as a small operation in learning Arabic. How Semitic languages work seem very magical to me. Unfortunately quite a many surah I have found seem to mention hellfire which is waiting for one. Not to even mention some of Old testament's genocidal commandments given by Moses. Yet both books have also spells. Of course when discussion is occultism maybe point of view was more in grimoire etc.

I assume Bible sounds also enchanting in Aramaic and Hebrew.
Of course I took some Latin in high school too but that wasn't much.

Anyway I think I emphasize more holistic or broader point. I think knowing various languages gives comparative way to look at loan words and sometimes even world. Maybe this is wrong kind of impression but for me SoA prayers using Latin and some Hebrew were interesting to find when I first time read them through.
If student of Occult knows language and tools how to use the language I think fluency is not needed so person could just read text and use dictionary and internet as a help.
Of course each word might have multitude of different cultural connotations which one might not be able to have an access at any given moment but that's only a challenge.
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Nefastos
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Re: Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

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I have great respect to people who are able to speak well a lot of languages, or who know some languages very well, but sadly I am not such one myself. Still I consider it extremely useful that I have studied a few quite different languages on surficial level. While I've failed to learn them appropriately, in that way I have yet attained dilettante understanding to see the meta levels of language: glimpses to those very different mind sets & landscapes of the soul they belong to.

People who only know one language will most likely be quite biased in how they see cultural things, since they have never learned to see how the same things can be formulated in a very different way in another language. It is quite funny to see how differently I think & feel & express myself even while writing either Finnish or English, and it would be very different still in, say, Latin. Since all language is poetry, as I see it, changing languages is like changing worlds.

Smaragd wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:32 pmHave you considered studying a particular language or have you fantasized of studying some language to gain access to scriptures of smaller or bigger traditions of occultism?


Yes. When I still thought that I would have some time from the brotherhood working, I had some plans. I started my university major in Latin, and was going to take all the wonderful courses in Sanskrit. But I had so little time to spare that I ended up changing my major to comparative religion, which was easier to unite to my brotherhood work, & took only one Sanskrit course.

In Finland, I would suggest to consider academical studies in theology to get the basic understanding of many important classic languages. In here that study is free, theological faculty is one of the easiest to have access to, and it is easy & quick to get basic understanding of Hebrew, Latin, and ancient Greek.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Kavi
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Re: Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

Post by Kavi »

Nefastos wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:48 am
In Finland, I would suggest to consider academical studies in theology to get the basic understanding of many important classic languages. In here that study is free, theological faculty is one of the easiest to have access to, and it is easy & quick to get basic understanding of Hebrew, Latin, and ancient Greek.
I have had this as my plan years back. I was very interested in other religions as well but during that time I didn't have any motivation to open the books for entry-examination.
I am still thinking if I should in future try to apply, but let's see.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

Post by Polyhymnia »

Nefastos wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:48 am
In Finland, I would suggest to consider academical studies in theology to get the basic understanding of many important classic languages. In here that study is free, theological faculty is one of the easiest to have access to, and it is easy & quick to get basic understanding of Hebrew, Latin, and ancient Greek.
Study is free for that? What an amazing opportunity. I just looked at how much debt I'm going to be in upon completion of my bachelor degree in four years and had a mini heart attack. I will be taking Latin and French the next four years for the exact reasons of understanding occult literature better, and for a little time now I have set my sights on translating Festugiere's La Révélation d'Hermes Trismégiste into English. I speak French poorly at the moment, but have a basic understanding since I did all of my schooling in French from the ages 5-11. I would love to one day start learning Sanskrit, but I will have to see what channels we have for that here. My mom spoke Thai to me growing up, but I didn't retain much. I wish I did, since a large amount of Thai vocabulary is borrowed from Sanskrit.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Nefastos
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Re: Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

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Polyhymnia wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:56 pmFrench

When I was deep in the writings of Blavatsky, I longed for the opportunity to read French, since many of the books cited by her were of that language. Nowadays, though, Eliphas Levi – for example – is easily available in the modern common, English.

Polyhymnia wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:56 pmMy mom spoke Thai to me growing up, but I didn't retain much. I wish I did, since a large amount of Thai vocabulary is borrowed from Sanskrit.

Yet some of that must certainly dwell in your subconscious, right? Sounds like a great opportunity!

Hmm, I think I traded an expensive book on Thai occultism for brother Teratokrios some years back. It was quite interesting. Apart from that, I know nothing about Thai culture, esoteric or other.

It would be great, one day, to have our brotherhood presence make possible the actual teaching of different forms of esotericism & inner, spiritual side of cultures to each other. To actually form that "the nucleus of universal brotherhood", like has been the occult dream for more than a century.

Polyhymnia wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:56 pmStudy is free for that? What an amazing opportunity. I just looked at how much debt I'm going to be in upon completion of my bachelor degree in four years and had a mini heart attack.

We have very interesting opportunities, as well as unique challenges, in Finland. Studying is so supported here that the government automatically warrants loans for living for every full time student (the five years for bachelor & master studies). Of course, that has its downside, for we now have a great amount of highly educated unemployed academics that are quite useless in the present cultural situation that is not wildly interested in humanistic values.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

Post by Polyhymnia »

Nefastos wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:00 am
Yet some of that must certainly dwell in your subconscious, right? Sounds like a great opportunity!

Hmm, I think I traded an expensive book on Thai occultism for brother Teratokrios some years back. It was quite interesting. Apart from that, I know nothing about Thai culture, esoteric or other.
I think the only thing my subconscious managed to retain was knowing when my mom is mad at me for something. Thai is not a melodious language.

In trying to connect deeper to that side of my roots, I stumbled across a couple of books on Thai occultism: one heavily about Sak Yant, and the other about the use of amulets within the realm of magic from northern Thailand. I also found some resources on learning Khom script, which from what I'm gathering is a mixture of Thai and Sanskrit (there's also a Lao version) used in Buddhist temples in Thailand (and Laos and Cambodia) which might be a good place to start if I can conjure up anything else in my subconscious other than a little Thai lady swearing at me. It also just so happens that my only other fluent English speaking Thai relative is a devout Buddhist aunty. Another piece of the puzzle!
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Nefastos
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Re: Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

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Smaragd wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:32 pmA bonus question would be, do you see it necessary to study oneself to be half fluent in say Sanskrit to benefit from original texts, or do you see it enough for youself to do some dictionary digging when diving in to the minutiae of the original paragraphs already translated?

These two are very different things. Actual, original, and to a degree still operating (in India) sacerdotal function of learning Sanskrit gives a very different kind of possibilities on several levels than the simple use of layman's crude dictionary-dwelling Sanskrit. Yet I do not say that the latter would me meaningless. Obviously: that's my own case at best. Something similar goes with Hebrew and even Latin & other languages, in a lesser scale.

It has seldom if ever being pointed out that the latter, "punk" attitude towards using languages also has its good points. (By punk I here mean the attitude opposite to the academic, or neurotic, mindset: one starts to do instead of thinking about doing something, and puts everything that is done in practical application. The anarchy of such system of punk goes only against one's inner tyrannies.) This kind of use, which does not claim that the primitive use would be equal in strengths to the actual experise, still makes best of all the different elements it can get its hands to. I see this as a quite natural way of using magic, grimoire-style: it is syncretic, it is eclectic, and it does not abhor that "beginner's mind" kind of approach that does not demand absolute certainty in instruments before using them. This kind of practical magic mindset – without being chaos magic – gets the benefit of its amalgam of pride & humility, eagerness & respect. It also becomes like a original journeyman path to practical magic. One does not claim to be a master (the usual problem of the adept-ridden modern world) but wishes to be such one day, and puts his effort and not his public relations in work to accomplish that.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

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Nefastos wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:05 am It has seldom if ever being pointed out that the latter, "punk" attitude towards using languages also has its good points. (By punk I here mean the attitude opposite to the academic, or neurotic, mindset: one starts to do instead of thinking about doing something, and puts everything that is done in practical application. The anarchy of such system of punk goes only against one's inner tyrannies.) This kind of use, which does not claim that the primitive use would be equal in strengths to the actual experise, still makes best of all the different elements it can get its hands to. I see this as a quite natural way of using magic, grimoire-style: it is syncretic, it is eclectic, and it does not abhor that "beginner's mind" kind of approach that does not demand absolute certainty in instruments before using them. This kind of practical magic mindset – without being chaos magic – gets the benefit of its amalgam of pride & humility, eagerness & respect. It also becomes like a original journeyman path to practical magic.
I don't know if you meant artists, but that's me, above.
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Nefastos
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Re: Studying Languages for Gaining Access to Occult Literature

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I didn't give a thought about any art except the literal punk music, but that makes sense.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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