Fighting oneself

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Angolmois

Fighting oneself

Post by Angolmois »

Do you struggle with yourself much, or do you "fight yourself" in issues that cause disharmony in your being or that make your Great Work more difficult?

Do you consider it being a sign that there is still dualism in you, things that cause problems of unification of one's resources? Does it have much to do with person and ego (in mundane terms) reacting against the impulses of the Soul?
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Nefastos
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Re: Fighting oneself

Post by Nefastos »

Rúnatýr wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:09 pmDo you struggle with yourself much, or do you "fight yourself" in issues that cause disharmony in your being or that make your Great Work more difficult?

No. But I "bend myself according to a pattern" constantly. I would call this wrestling, but not fighting.

Rúnatýr wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:09 pmDo you consider it being a sign that there is still dualism in you, things that cause problems of unification of one's resources? Does it have much to do with person and ego (in mundane terms) reacting against the impulses of the Soul?

In my eyes, it depends from the colour aspect one is going through. In the phase of White, there should be no forcing. In the others, especially in the Red, one must strive vigorously to get the upper hand of one's negative & hindering attributes – sins, vices, and even misplaced or unbalanced virtues – and turn them, and that fighting itself, into the Great Work process.

There is naturally dualism in all of us, and much of it is well & good. For when we have deep egotistic or evil tendencies, those must be seen as unwanted, and fought accordingly. The problem is, it demands much inspection to find out which things exactly are "egotistic or evil", and which are just claimed to be such by some arbitrary cultural code.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Fighting oneself

Post by Polyhymnia »

I would say yes, I struggle with myself on many things, and would consider it fighting with myself, though I hope to one day get to the point of it being more like Nefastos' description of bending according to pattern which is probably a much healthier way of looking at it and acting upon it. I'm constantly at odds with myself identifying vices and negative tendencies and doing the hard work of getting them under control. I see it as a part of the whole so I try not to spend too much time beating myself up over it, just identifying, acknowledging, and rectifying. If I happen to lack impulse control and end up indulging in something I know doesn't serve my work, I do have a tendency to hold onto that guilt for much longer than I should. When that happens, I definitely feel interference with my Work.

I think I have alot of grey area with what I feel I'm "allowed" to do. I don't feel comfortable discussing some of these things on a public forum, but there's definitely some confusion within me on ethics and how that should look at times.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
Kavi
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Re: Fighting oneself

Post by Kavi »

Nefastos wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:37 am
Rúnatýr wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:09 pmDo you struggle with yourself much, or do you "fight yourself" in issues that cause disharmony in your being or that make your Great Work more difficult?

No. But I "bend myself according to a pattern" constantly. I would call this wrestling, but not fighting.
Couple of years back I had this fighting and war going on until I realized it was unnecessary.
According to rules of just war one should always strive for peace, while in mundane world these ethics are used for wiping butts, I for one think according to this ethical point of view - also I had very negative view of myself and wanted to abolish it or some aspects of it completely. This kind of war is endless and actually unnecessary to have.
I like the idea of wrestling here too, bending, whirling around the ground, finding static position but only to appear as such until making more dynamic movements. Although some of judo's principles can be discarded, I think idea of using inertia to mold and create something is useful to think about in this perspective.
This also links to and made me thinks of frater Insanus' wondering in the topic of Breaking the pattern:
Insanus wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:46 pm How it's actually done is a mystery to me. Change feels like you try and try and nothing works ever and then you just notice the change actually already happened some eight months ago and things just flow differently for no reason. I guess it happens when imagination acts on the subconscious and a new normal is established as a standard state of mind or something like that, but why and how exactly? It's kinda like those zen stories where some guy just goes to a grocery store and bam he is enlightened. Really intriguing and difficult question.
I think change Insanus talks here are like chord changes but you don't really recognize them or hear them instantly, if using wrestling or judo metaphor, until this inertia is fully developed and momentum created... until something falls on ground you might notice if something has been done properly - so that one really can feel and see it. This might need countless repetition as well.
Also musically thinking when you press or especially pull musical string the sound is not necessarily instantly created but it needs some time (milliseconds) to be heard and soundwave to be felt. In some kind of real world or subjective one, these patterns and changes can take even years to be felt and experienced.
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Re: Fighting oneself

Post by Mars »

I try to steer myself instead of fighting. Granted, there's often an urge to fight when the car is about to go off the road but even then a simple turn of the steering wheel is better than beating the dashboard.
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Re: Fighting oneself

Post by Angolmois »

Nefastos wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:37 am There is naturally dualism in all of us, and much of it is well & good. For when we have deep egotistic or evil tendencies, those must be seen as unwanted, and fought accordingly. The problem is, it demands much inspection to find out which things exactly are "egotistic or evil", and which are just claimed to be such by some arbitrary cultural code.
What I meant was for example when one tries to take up a discipline or a certain rhythm in spiritual life, the mundane ego usually would like to keep things as they are and fights back, does not want to attune into the rhythm, and then one has to fight the ego. But maybe I'm approaching this issue from the standpoint of the "ray of harmony through conflict".
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Fighting oneself

Post by Polyhymnia »

Rúnatýr wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:30 pm What I meant was for example when one tries to take up a discipline or a certain rhythm in spiritual life, the mundane ego usually would like to keep things as they are and fights back, does not want to attune into the rhythm, and then one has to fight the ego.
Hahaha uh oh. I feel this in my soul. I've recently taken up a specific mantra to chant every evening with my prayers along with the chakric yoga I've been trying to focus on. I've missed two days of chanting since starting, and though I've kept up with my chakric meditations every day (save for one), my yoga practice has fallen almost entirely. I have to fight my head space, because if I force myself, I end up resenting the act. I have yet to figure out a way around this, and typically just follow my intuition, allowing the pendulum to swing.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Smaragd
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Re: Fighting oneself

Post by Smaragd »

Polyhymnia wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:31 pm
Rúnatýr wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:30 pm What I meant was for example when one tries to take up a discipline or a certain rhythm in spiritual life, the mundane ego usually would like to keep things as they are and fights back, does not want to attune into the rhythm, and then one has to fight the ego.
Hahaha uh oh. I feel this in my soul. I've recently taken up a specific mantra to chant every evening with my prayers along with the chakric yoga I've been trying to focus on. I've missed two days of chanting since starting, and though I've kept up with my chakric meditations every day (save for one), my yoga practice has fallen almost entirely. I have to fight my head space, because if I force myself, I end up resenting the act. I have yet to figure out a way around this, and typically just follow my intuition, allowing the pendulum to swing.
Oh, now I think I understand what is meant by "bending to pattern". Following the intuition or allowing the unconscious to the process, for me it is sometimes a process where I have to drop my excpectations towards the practice. I might have some idea where to start and that brings me somewhere, but then I might need to let that idea float in to the dark waters and then allow the darkness to "answer" and lead me to the forms I rneed to approach the practice with next. This is how I try to avoid unnecessary fighting and at the same time keep a practice alive and challenging. The discipline to continue stays while the specific forms or ways of focus may alter according to the process itself.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
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Nefastos
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Re: Fighting oneself

Post by Nefastos »

Rúnatýr wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:30 pmWhat I meant was for example when one tries to take up a discipline or a certain rhythm in spiritual life, the mundane ego usually would like to keep things as they are and fights back, does not want to attune into the rhythm, and then one has to fight the ego.

Yes, this was what I personally separated from the actually evil actions. The latter can even be fought since even though the fighting is not an optimal choice, it is still better than to let the factually evil tendencies flourish. But when the problems is not ethical in that degree, putting up a fight might create even more problems that the non optimal mundane tendencies. Also, when mundane tendencies are fought instead of steered, there will always remain an inner tension. This will surface eventually & bring back the problems.

For example: One has a problem of drinking too much, and at least part of him starts to see this as an actual problem. Yet the drinking has not yet drastically hurt other people – he has no family and manages to do all his work, and so on. He just understands that the alcohol keeps him in reins that hinder his overall life & makes him smaller person than he would otherwise be. In case one fights this habit of drinking, he forces it away, but it just retreats into a cavern of his soul so to say, and when his life is once again in a situation where he would need the comfort of alcohol, he will succumb, since the actual habit has not been changed, it has just been forced out of sight.

But let's think that he does not fight the drinking, but instead steers, wrestles, bends it. In that case he does not put fiery feeling against his bad habit, but instead (uses that same fire in a neutral dynamic way &) tries to think outside the box: What are the things he enjoys in drinking, what not, and how these things could be gained from using alcohol in a different manner, or could they perhaps be gained from elsewhere instead of alcohol. This is much harder way and demands a lot of self-reflection, but in case one is ingenious enough, he might manage to handle the whole thing differently. One possible outcome from such method could be perhaps the use of very small quantities of alcohol, but in a manner that prolongs the psychological pleasure of drinking. If this is handled expertly, there will no longer remain dualistic feeling for or against alcohol, which itself is a neutral substance, and thus there remains much less inner tension.

But these processes are long, and one must be totally, absolutely honest with oneself.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Benemal
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Re: Fighting oneself

Post by Benemal »

Nefastos wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:34 am For example: One has a problem of drinking too much, and at least part of him starts to see this as an actual problem. Yet the drinking has not yet drastically hurt other people – he has no family and manages to do all his work, and so on. He just understands that the alcohol keeps him in reins that hinder his overall life & makes him smaller person than he would otherwise be. In case one fights this habit of drinking, he forces it away, but it just retreats into a cavern of his soul so to say, and when his life is once again in a situation where he would need the comfort of alcohol, he will succumb, since the actual habit has not been changed, it has just been forced out of sight.
Absolutely true. Sounds like you're talking about me, but I don't think I've ever told you, because such mundane things aren't interesting.

Nothing else put the electric dragon to sleep.
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