Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

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obnoxion
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Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by obnoxion »

Smaragd wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:21 am . For me one of the most intriguing ideas in the genre has been the wholeness ”necrosound” brings to it. The idea that from the production to playing style and riffs and melodies creates a methaphor of one whole idea – as if a singular primordial ray of light emerging from the darkness. This I perceive in the simple yet powerful records of early Burzum, Darkthrone and Beherit. I guess there’s a vein meant for each of us to suck from in music; for me mixing melodic metal to black metal in the way Dissection does, moves the vision further in to the culture of today rather than being at the source
This is exactly how I feel. Though not having listened to much metal in years, this topic has inspired me to re-listen my old favourites. I think Behemoth on "Sventevith" has captured the necrosound magnificently, and still manages to be melodic.

Apart from the above, I like the more primitive, often midtempo black metal like on Mortuary Drape's "All the Witches Dance" and Samael's "Blood Ritual". I hear in them more clearly the hidden roots of the genre like Black Sabbath or early hardcore punk. And their lyrics are more often about witchcraft and black masses, which is what I mostly want to hear when listening to BM.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
Kavi
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Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by Kavi »

Smaragd wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:21 am
Kavi wrote: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:53 pm About darkness and light came another association of Väinämöinen's "syntysanat" and "Logos"... How the whole book of Genesis starts.
Maybe recitating "OM" is this method?
Sounds highly likely. There’s some personal trouble for me to find the silence from the richness and brilliance of the Logos, but there’s some sort of calmness to it that I can relate to the voice of silence in the way I personally perceive it, which is more about the Mother than the Son. I guess this tells me how I still tend to see the Son in more Luciferian way, rather than actual embodied emphasis on Christ or the androgyne Avalokitesvara or the Guanyin where the same bodhisattva as a Mother is underlined (or maybe this is not about time and development, but tells about how the Lucifers fall is about the embodied experience). Hope this makes some sense to you.

When talking about these monumental archs of silence and a voice, it brings me back to the black metal topic. For me one of the most intriguing ideas in the genre has been the wholeness ”necrosound” brings to it. The idea that from the production to playing style and riffs and melodies creates a methaphor of one whole idea – as if a singular primordial ray of light emerging from the darkness. This I perceive in the simple yet powerful records of early Burzum, Darkthrone and Beherit. I guess there’s a vein meant for each of us to suck from in music; for me mixing melodic metal to black metal in the way Dissection does, moves the vision further in to the culture of today rather than being at the source. But, again this might be just my own interpretation. What I mean by culture of today is that I can not anymore listen to melodic (death) metal or music clearly influenced by it, without hearing egoistic showmanship in those type of melodies. In that area I don’t hear the silence between the notes anymore; its as if notes were just placed there half randomly. The images they summon up for me is muscles and guitars, which is in one way a satanic image of otherness to me, but it doesn’t feel too fruitful as a thing of the past, when I myself appreciated more of the technical capabilitites of playing the guitar. Yet there’s some exceptions, that may reveal I’m not quite hitting the nail with these notions; Emperor has some more melodic stuff which summons up much more romantic and even primordial images for me, especially so with the combination of lyrics. Guess I have some problem or coloured vision of the Swedish approach, or its about incorporating melodies in to the riffs themselves and sticking in the ”singular” vision.
I have actually alot of creativity problems with this dualism when working with other than black metal music, as sticking to too much a singular idea often confines good ideas away leaving a music piece somewhat bare and lacking life, while writing riffs the idea drives me for the veins of gold.
I think we understand each other and speak almost about same things. Although I didn't become teenage satanist while I found "Under a funeral moon" and "Hviss lyset tar oss" but I think the sonology made me very impressed. Couple of years back at one frater's house during one night To Walk the Infernal Fields was played and I remember again after many years how hellish the reverbed drum tom sounds in it.

I think technicality and musicality can't be really a separate from each other. I just think melodic metal music is not usually "enough" melodic and it's more likely to be just the lowest common denominator to attract the listeners. We have this thing called schlager-bm and it's so annoying. "Enough" melodic doesn't mean it shouldn't be minimalistic or simple but I think many of you know what I might mean by this.
In modern metal music I have heard that it relies on samples. So in modern death metal snare and bass drums are always sampled and I don't know what happens to bass and guitars either through mixing and editing process but somehow it doesn't feel right.
I think I still have this conflicting dualism inside of me which enjoys from highly-skilled and produced music but then also from more music which is not about virtuosity and might have quite poor production.
Angolmois

Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by Angolmois »

Kavi wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:34 pmI think I still have this conflicting dualism inside of me which enjoys from highly-skilled and produced music but then also from more music which is not about virtuosity and might have quite poor production.
In my personal opinion most bands and musicians loose their original impetus and spirit when they learn to play better; not always but in general.

I've really been enjoying chilling out and meditating while listening Gurdjieff's and Hartmann's piano and flute pieces, which I think have direct contact with the occult / esoteric. And one of my all time favourites is László Hortobágyi's 'Traditional Music Of Amygdala' which is outright esoteric music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLru2MWxmaM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYL5VJDn2Go

Having been listening black and death metal from early youth I really can't stand most of BM nowadays, occult or not. It may be because of my experiences as a youth, but there's something in the general musical landscape and themes that doesn't touch me any longer, or actually makes me sick. I hate to say it but maybe I've grown old, or just changed mentally and spiritually.
obnoxion
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Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by obnoxion »

Boreas wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:10 pm Having been listening black and death metal from early youth I really can't stand most of BM nowadays, occult or not. It may be because of my experiences as a youth, but there's something in the general musical landscape and themes that doesn't touch me any longer, or actually makes me sick. I hate to say it but maybe I've grown old, or just changed mentally and spiritually.
This pretty much how I've felt for the past 20 years. But I have been revisiting BM these few days, inspired by this topic. Even the old classics just don't sound the same as in the 90's. All I can say is that there was something in the air back then that has vanished away.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
Angolmois

Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by Angolmois »

obnoxion wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:36 pmThis pretty much how I've felt for the past 20 years.
Took me a little while longer!

I do enjoy single pieces of BM now and then but I'm very picky nowadays. Maybe I'm just an elitist when it comes to it.
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Cerastes
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Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by Cerastes »

Boreas wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:10 pm It may be because of my experiences as a youth, but there's something in the general musical landscape and themes that doesn't touch me any longer, or actually makes me sick.

Well, if it makes you sick it does touch you.
There is a certain kind of music that makes me sick because I don‘t like the person I was back then and I don‘t want to evoke demons of the past. It is remarkeble how music can take us back into a long-gone mindset. For this reason I‘m a litte more careful by now what sort of music I listen to because I don‘t underestimate the subconcious impact anymore.

My playlist is a very weird mixture from different sorts of music. No complete albums, just picked songs from different genres. I often add constrasts to my playlist to underline each song. There might be aggressive Black Metal followed by Alanis Morisette (love her voice).
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Kenazis
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Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by Kenazis »

Cerastes wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:23 pm My playlist is a very weird mixture from different sorts of music. No complete albums, just picked songs from different genres. I often add constrasts to my playlist to underline each song. There might be aggressive Black Metal followed by Alanis Morisette (love her voice).
One good example of how different we (people) are. This kind of listening is awful for my ears/mind. If I listen aggressive black metal there is some "mental demand" for that kind of material and it is not working for me if I abrutly change it to something complete different. I have different "mood-periods" where I listen some genre long and then move on another. Also I often want to listen albums as whole and always liked albums that where composed as one entity and not just collection of separate tracks. Never listened Alanis Morrisette, though I know couple of her songs and I also like her voice a lot. Maybe I should listen some album from her. For example I listened couple of months just minimalistic classical piano music (Wim Mertens, Philip Glass), then CMX about month, and now I have been listening old thrash and death metal classic like Testament, Deicide and Dismember.
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obnoxion
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Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by obnoxion »

Kenazis wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:41 am This kind of listening is awful for my ears/mind. If I listen aggressive black metal there is some "mental demand" for that kind of material and it is not working for me if I abrutly change it to something complete different.
When I was re-visiting my old favourite BM albums on youtube, the songs would abruptly change to commercials for frozen pizzas and things like that. Which was mildly disruptive...

By the way, Deicide's "Once Upon A Cross" was one of the biggest death metal albums for me, along with Cannibal Corpse's "Tomb of the Mutilated". I listened to them when I was like thirteen and translated all the lyrics with dictionary. I had a pretty special English vocabulary for my age back then... It is still much easier for me to listen to death metal than black metal.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Smaragd
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Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by Smaragd »

Kavi wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:34 pm I think we understand each other and speak almost about same things. Although I didn't become teenage satanist while I found "Under a funeral moon" and "Hviss lyset tar oss" but I think the sonology made me very impressed. Couple of years back at one frater's house during one night To Walk the Infernal Fields was played and I remember again after many years how hellish the reverbed drum tom sounds in it.

I think technicality and musicality can't be really a separate from each other. I just think melodic metal music is not usually "enough" melodic and it's more likely to be just the lowest common denominator to attract the listeners. We have this thing called schlager-bm and it's so annoying. "Enough" melodic doesn't mean it shouldn't be minimalistic or simple but I think many of you know what I might mean by this.
Yes, I think we are talking about the same thing. Listening to Jesus' Tod it's obvious the song is very melodic and well played, but there is this mythological stone sculpture kind of firm nature to the melodies and the arrangement that works in a very different way than the usual "melodic metal" genre songs. This starts to sound like the talk of a elitist metal club, but I guess its easier to see musical forms and their meanings when we compare it to something else.
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Kenazis
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Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by Kenazis »

obnoxion wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:54 am
Kenazis wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:41 am This kind of listening is awful for my ears/mind. If I listen aggressive black metal there is some "mental demand" for that kind of material and it is not working for me if I abrutly change it to something complete different.
When I was re-visiting my old favourite BM albums on youtube, the songs would abruptly change to commercials for frozen pizzas and things like that. Which was mildly disruptive...

By the way, Deicide's "Once Upon A Cross" was one of the biggest death metal albums for me, along with Cannibal Corpse's "Tomb of the Mutilated". I listened to them when I was like thirteen and translated all the lyrics with dictionary. I had a pretty special English vocabulary for my age back then... It is still much easier for me to listen to death metal than black metal.
I was younger when those records came out, but for me the earliest death metal albums I remember that made big influence was Dismember - Like an Ever flowing stream & Pieces Ep, Deicide's Amon - Feasting the Beast, Legion and Once Upon the Cross (later Serpent's of the Light was instant hit for me), Cannibal Corpse - Tomb of the mutilated and Autopsy - Mental Funeral. When I moved on black metal, I never listened Cannibal Corpse (I still haven't), but Deicide and Autopsy remained. I still think that Autopsy's Mental Funeral might be the best death metal album ever. It so raw and brutal. I see it like the death metal twin of Darkthrone's - Under a Funeral Moon, that for me is one of the greatest bm albums. For keeping this discussion somehow on occult, let me add that the minimalistic composers Wim Mertens and Philip Glass gives me more of an mystical, occult atmosphere than most of the bands that are lyrically occult. Mertens and Glass tap into some very mystical stream of music where the music (and sounds) itself tells secrects without words.
"We live for the woods and the moon and the night"
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