Jung, The Red Book

Discussion on literature other than by the Star of Azazel.
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Astraya
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

Post by Astraya »

Divine Folly

Beginning of this chapter reminds me about the ”Castle in the Forest”, where the traveller also came to a dignified building and met a man who is the keeper of knowledge. I feel this chapter to be quite formal comparing to many other chapters in Red Book, where the archetypical mysticism is more present.
Green colour of the curtain brings to mind how the traveller has made himself fruitful to go deeper on his journey and notice the opportunity of choice. The right door can indeed be connected to Christ and the Right hand path. Choices support and guide us from the moment we make them, even though it can sometimes feel as if the choice was quite sudden and with the feeling that you don’t quite know why something crossed your mind. This is the subconscious talking and in deep connection with archetypes, for when one decides to widen ones knowledge, this kind of connection becomes more vivid. Traveller doesn’t right away know why in that moment he thought of Thomas à Kempis, but it becomes clearer as the chapter moves forward.
Order form describes serious and pious devotion for Work. Moving forward is often confronted with the landmarks. We’re given forms to fill to show our commitment and questioning, which is crucial considering the deeper understanding. This is also heard in librarian's words,” Are you that religious? I had no idea”. He is a new person in the traveller's journey. Not really unknown, for he is the traveller's own aspect of the mind, and has come to take the form of a formgiver and the guardian of knowledge. We have in ourselves many gates, and they can be opened with devotion. Dialogue is the traveller's own argument between christianity in its true form and religion as a series of manmade dogmas.
I myself know very little about Nietzsche’s philosophy, but this conversation also feels like an argument between strength and, I would like to say, understanding different sides needing different approaches. The traveller is not clear about his position in these matters, for the choice to come to contemplate them is still so young. Traveller understands that in the end neither resistance nor approach doesn’t really matter to divinity, in its folly form at least. We all channel spirit no matter what we do, although of course the ways which are taken with concideration are stronger and wider. Christ doesn’t emulate any model because he has become a messiah. The appearances of human life in its all forms have been walked through and no longer have power over him. This is the situation where the channeling spirit is in its purest form and teaching is possible, as is moving forward. Certain reflection between worlds is no more necessary and in a way possible.
Returning to simple life is a crucial sacrament in occult work and gives possibility to widen the understanding in to larger ways to continue it.
“There can be no transforming of darkness into light and of apathy into movement without emotion”
― Carl Gustav Jung
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Nefastos
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Nefastos wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:18 amBenemal (December): XV Nox secunda
lnsanus (January): XVI Nox tertia

Are you still up to the task, Benemal?
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Benemal
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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I just remembered this is still going. I'll not sign up for anything anymore, since I'm enjoying the freedom and happiness of not being on-line all the time. It's a sacred light of bliss, to not partake in the overflowing cauldron of chaotic madness and hate. Get out of the demiurge's golden shower, and dive into the deep clarity, of Satan's forest spring. ;)

This'll have to wait a bit. A couple of weeks I suppose.
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Nefastos
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Alright. Let me know whether you will tolerate the jerking off of Ialdabaoth in your June & December turns, or shall we try to find someone else (which I fear might be me) to cover those up.

In case Insanus wants to write about Nox Tertia before the Nox Secunda, that can be done.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Insanus
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Nefastos wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:45 am Alright. Let me know whether you will tolerate the jerking off of Ialdabaoth in your June & December turns, or shall we try to find someone else (which I fear might be me) to cover those up.

In case Insanus wants to write about Nox Tertia before the Nox Secunda, that can be done.
I can take Benemal's turns if he wants to quit.
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Nefastos
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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This would be great! What do you say, Benemal? And if Aye, would that include Nox Secunda?
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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I can still cover my chapter on the 21st.
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Insanus, if you're into it, I'll gladly leave it to you. I want to find a way to actually enjoy this book, and get something out of it. Also, can't know anymore, if I'll be online when it's my turn. I'm taking this "deastralizing" seriously. I have to do it. There's a long path ahead. Maybe permanent.
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Insanus
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Benemal wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:22 am Insanus, if you're into it, I'll gladly leave it to you. I want to find a way to actually enjoy this book, and get something out of it. Also, can't know anymore, if I'll be online when it's my turn. I'm taking this "deastralizing" seriously. I have to do it. There's a long path ahead. Maybe permanent.

Will do. Deastralizing (great word) would probably do wonders to many of us.
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Insanus
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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NOX SECUNDA

Jung leaves the library with his copy of Imitation of Christ and goes through the other door to kitchen. After a little bit of friendly chit-chat with the cook lady he notes a passage in the book which reads: "the righteous base their intentions on the mercy of God which in whatever they undertake they trust more than their own wisdom". Jung understands this to be the intuitive method recommended by the author.
Next thing you know, a group of some sort of demonic shadow-beings, the dead, rushes past Jung. Their leader is Ezechiel, anabaptist. (Footnote tells me that Ezechiel was some seer-prophet in sixth century BCE and anabaptists some kind of anti-organized religion group who thought the immediacy of God's relation to man was important). Ezechiel tries to "greedily and uncannily, his eyes shining as if from inner heat" grab Jung, believing that he knows the reason why he with the other dead cannot be liberated from existence even though they all died in faith. "Let go daimon, you did not live your animal" is Jung's answer. Footnote again tells me that Jung considered it Christ's "psychological sin" that he did not live his animal side fully. This insight earns Jung a trip to the madhouse where the police takes him.

Jung is thought to be religiously mad and is locked up. In his room he tries to conceive of a society integrated with divine madness but can't imagine it. He attempts to connect his intuition/feeling side and considers in very underdeveloped. In this intuitive state (see the earlier quote from Imitation of Christ) Mercy of God is the highest Law. Everything "seems terribly accidental" and "it becomes apparent everything misleads". One thing becomes dreadfully clear, "namely that contrary to my earlier way and all it's insights and intentions, henceforth all is error." Now Jung considers the place in human soul (the waking consciousness?) where everything is clear "nothing but polished crust over the mystery of chaos". This chaos is not formless and single, but an unending multiplicity filled with figures that have confusing and overwhelming effect due to their fullness. The figures are the dead, not just the shapes you took in the past but also the thronging dead of the human history.
First it seems like Jung simply means the repressed parts of individual psyche, but then he calls them evil spirits, something individual and demonic and capable of possessing men. Surprisingly Christ was the greatest of them all. "It was too little for him to break the world so he broke himself". If you accept them (the dead), they fill you with delusion and rebellion against what rules the world. They used to be great, dangerous and have nothing to do with small lives of men, but they did not live their animal.

"Abase yourself and live your animal so that you will be able to treat your brother correctly. You will thus redeem all those roaming dead who strive to feed off the living."

"Every step upward will restore a step downward so that the dead will be delivered into freedom. The creating of the new shrinks from the day since it's essence is secret. It prepares the destruction of precisely this day in the hope of leading it over into new creation. Something evil is attached to the creation of the new, which you cannot proclaim loudly. The animal that looks for new hunting grounds cowers slinking and sniffing on dark paths and does not want to be surprised."

Jung notices that Christ restored bloody human sacrifice and the eating of human sacrifice but under the law of love so that no brother would come to harm and all could rejoice in the restoration.

"What we call temptation is the demand of the dead who passed away incompletely through the guilt of the good and of the law."

"There is one necessary but hidden and strange work -a major work- which you must do in secret, for the sake of the dead. He who cannot attain his own visible field and vineyard is held fast by the dead, who demand the work of atonement from him. And until he has fulfilled this, he cannot get to his outer work, since the dead do not let him. He shall have to search his soul and act in stillness at their behest and complete the mystery, so that the dead will not let him. Do not look forward so much but back and into yourself, so that you will not fail to hear the dead."

"Do you think the dead do not exist because you have devised the impossibility of immortality?"


"I accepted the chaos, and in the following night, my soul approached me."

---

Okay, so what I found interesting was this idea that the chaos of multiplicity behind the organized mind actually consists of Legion and that temptations are historical dead trying to act out what they missed in their life. The cruelty and genius of these dead beings was underlined in the text, so it also intuitively brings to mind some sort of fundamental sadism as an attempt to objectify and control the animal. Also idea of reincarnation being a constant process of allowing these dead souls to incarnate through one's self, as if to resurrect them under the law of love that lives it's animal occured.

Neat. So what do you think? Have you experienced the uncanny greed and eyes litting as if from inner heat, heard the dead or been in touch with something like the unending multiplicity described in the text? I know (=think) I have. Also I can't help but to think of Heidegger with his strange choice of words in being and time about being-towards-death and anxiety as the experience of one's own being.. but that's just an association.

Nox tertia coming up next, in two days..
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