Numerical Symbolism

Symbols and allegories.
User avatar
Jiva
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:13 am

Numerical Symbolism

Post by Jiva »

So, does anyone have any numerical symbolism they would like to share?

A favourite of mine is the numerical similarity of the Hebrew words for “messiah” and “serpent”; both add to 358:
  • Messiah (Moshiach – M, Sh, Y, Ch; 40, 300, 10, 8)
  • Serpent (Nachash – N, Ch, Sh; 50, 8, 300)
One interpretation is that the serpent of Eden can deceive or liberate as a barrier or bridge depending on one's point of view. I think this is also relevant to our recent discussion regarding the Kliphoth.

I thought I'd also use this post/topic to ask if anyone knows if there are any traditions of gematria (or similar practices) in languages other than Arabic, Greek and Hebrew, for example Sanskrit or Asian languages? Sanskrit gematria is obliquely mentioned in David Fideler's Jesus Christ, Sun of God, but isn't expanded on at all. I've always wondered how some religious scholars in the Hindu tradition calculated the various ages of the world, perhaps there is a gematrial aspect?

Here's some helpful Wiki links that contain the numerical values of the letters of the Arabic, Greek and Hebrew languages:
Arabic – Abjad numerals.
Greek – Isopsephy.
Hebrew – Gematria. For completeness, in Hebrew there is also notarikon, temurah and the Atbash and aiq beker (towards the bottom of the page) ciphers.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
Fomalhaut
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:16 pm

Re: Numerical Symbolism

Post by Fomalhaut »

A favourite of mine is the numerical similarity of the Hebrew words for “messiah” and “serpent”; both add to 358:
Messiah (Moshiach – M, Sh, Y, Ch; 40, 300, 10, 8)
Serpent (Nachash – N, Ch, Sh; 50, 8, 300)

Related to this, I am currently reading a book about Kabbalah written by Ginsburg and for example it is mentioned in the book that the word Metatron is numerically equivalent to Shaddai (God) in Hebrew gematria. I will start to study gematria in the future, doing a step-by-step study on Jewish mysticism nowadays.

Could Messiah and Serpent be the thesis and anti-thesis but of the same source thus having the same numbers? As I said, I am a newbie in this topic, so this was just a thought :)

I did not hear any other numerical systems except gematria so the Arabic and Greek ones are new to me. Thanks for sharing, Frater!
"I am not what happened to me, I am what I choose to become."
— C.G. Jung
User avatar
Nefastos
Posts: 3029
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Numerical Symbolism

Post by Nefastos »

Jiva wrote:I've always wondered how some religious scholars in the Hindu tradition calculated the various ages of the world, perhaps there is a gematrial aspect?


There might be, but I think it was mostly from the correspondences of the celestial alphabet (cf. the end part of M.P. Hall's quote about the Tower of Babel) applied with the help of spiritual "revelation" given by intelligences of devic & asuric origin. If you have much time & energy to put into this search at some point, I can suggest some extremely heavy reading: Surya Siddhanta. It has been translated by Burgess & Whitney in the 19th century & published in the (completely awesome) Secret Doctrine Reference Series by Wizard's Bookshelf. It's an ancient text of Hindu astrology/astronomy, supposedly given to the ancients by demon Asuramaya. (Quite a bad ass name by the way, for in sanskrit asuras are titan-demons not unlike our fallen angels, while maya is the name of both illusion and magic.) I don't even dream about going through this occult brickstone in any near future, but if one is very interested in the subject, it can't be overlooked.

Fomalhaut wrote:Could Messiah and Serpent be the thesis and anti-thesis but of the same source thus having the same numbers?


It can also be said that they are the actual same. In the Gospel of John (3:13-15), Jesus refers to the desert episode of the Pentateuch, saying:

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


So here we see, in Jesus' own words, the ophite redeemer. This is about kundalini, "the serpent power", that must be "lifted up" in order to "ascend up to heaven" (but which should only be done in the context of the true initiations, not haphazardly & without the rare true guidance).

Also note how Jesus mentions the "Son of man which is in heaven". Not the supposed "Son of God", the lame redeemer of the Christian masses, but the Son of man, the power that man himself has put into his own spiritual development with real work. This "Son of man" is our "Azazel", namely, the Self that dwells in personal man also but is projected by him - by choice & by work - back to its source, to the spirit. It's a Lucifer "after his fall" so to speak, although we're not talking about linear time here.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
User avatar
Bies
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:37 pm

Re: Numerical Symbolism

Post by Bies »

I've been long fascinated with the number 15. I believe that a primary viewpoint to see this number from can start from The Devil tarot card, which obviously ix XV.
Now, before I got any further, I think that the recognition of this number requires seeing Satan as the active force in the process of Death. My personal interest, and philosophical focal point on THAT matter, is the anti-kabbalistic stance of Satan being the proactive antithesis of creation. For obvious reasons, I do find this to be in agreement, or at least, not in contrast with the thought process presented in the teachings of the Star of Azazel.

Moving ahead to another force of Death, Saturn- if we take the magic square of Saturn (492, 357, 816), as well as the seal of Saturn (from medieval magic, but used prominently within the workings of the ONA), we have the the main number of Saturn as 9, but 9 from 15. While I am sure everyone is familiar with the said square, I will put it here for review:

http://0.tqn.com/d/altreligion/1/0/6/0/ ... umbers.jpg

Adding up to 15 per side, equaling 45 in each column, the end result is 9. However, if we are to keep adding the number together, rather than to compile the 15s, we have 1+5, three times over, equaling 666. Fittingly, 666 adds back up to 18, which in turn adds back up to 9, linking in the mythos I am presenting here Satan and Saturn as similar forces of Death. Now, I have written this post quickly, and we can continue to present cases both ways (a. that this is a fitting comparison, and well deserved or b. that this is trivial and non-important), but I will leave the Sigil of Lucifer, as another example of the X and V- 15:

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/ ... 39hr6v.png

Hail Satan/Death

(On another note, this marks my first longer post on these forums, and I look forward to now having the time, focus, to do this MUCH more often.)

For your consideration,

Bies
"It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him."
User avatar
Jiva
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:13 am

Re: Numerical Symbolism

Post by Jiva »

I'm not sure how I missed this post originally, but that is really interesting. There's a definite beauty in how intricate it is :). Incidentally, the Grimoirium Verum is a book I've wanted to read for some time now, although actually 'read' is probably the wrong word as it's the sigils I'm drawn to.

Anyway, I'm going to bump this thread with one of the main equations from David Chaim Smith's Blazing Dew of Stars...

The following is based on the sentence AHYH AShR AHYH – “I am that I am” or “I will be, that (by which), I will be” from Exodus 3:14. Smith sees the first I as the capacity to reflect and the second I as the reflected variation, which together signify the potentiality and capacity to manifest with no conceptual division. This is related to something Smith frequently returns to, namely that “alef is never less than two” and the word “b'reshit”: “reshit” means “beginning” while the prefix “b” which means "in" has a numerical value of 2.

This begins with the stepping of the word YHVH, where the word is developed letter by letter with all permutations being added:
Y (10)
YH (15)
YHV (21)
YHVH (26)

This ultimately results in YHVH (72). Another word sharing the gematria of 72 is the sephira CheSD, the creative expanse of nature on the first day of creation. From this is subtracted the stepped value for AHYH:
A (1)
AH (6)
AHY (16)
AHYH (21)

This results in AHYH (44), the value of DaM which literally means 'blood' but which Smith describes as the 'blood of space'. When 44 is subtracted from 72 this results in 28 and represents the differential of contextual space and manifestation. Smith connects this value with the following quote: “seven: three opposite three, and one is the rule deciding between them” (Sefer Yetzirah 6:5). When 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are summed the total is 28. The number in the middle of the series is 4 which when multiplied by 7 results in 28. The essential interpretation is to see beyond the illusory world of manifested differentiability by attaining some sort of balance or equilibrium.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
User avatar
Jiva
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:13 am

Re: Numerical Symbolism

Post by Jiva »

Actually, I just realised I should add some further Kabbalistic methods of gematria to the thread (I've updated my original post to include them as well).

The first is the Atbash cipher and the second is aiq beker (towards the bottom of the page).

I also randomly discovered a few days ago that the Cyrillic alphabet had numeric values until the eighteenth century. I'm not sure if this was utilised in any gematrial or esoteric/occult way. A quick Google search tells me that Pushkin might've incorporated some gematrial symbolism into his works, but this was a century later and apparently mostly influenced by the Christian Kabbalah.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
User avatar
Nefastos
Posts: 3029
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Numerical Symbolism

Post by Nefastos »

Jiva wrote:I also randomly discovered a few days ago that the Cyrillic alphabet had numeric values until the eighteenth century. I'm not sure if this was utilised in any gematrial or esoteric/occult way. A quick Google search tells me that Pushkin might've incorporated some gematrial symbolism into his works, but this was a century later and apparently mostly influenced by the Christian Kabbalah.


Thank you brother, this was news to me, & especially interesting now as I have just came back to learn some Russian after a pause of twenty years. It's a deep, beautiful language, easily bound to mystic use, I think. Were I a Russian, I might not even use Latin in my prayers & invocations, but just my mother language. Same goes with Hebrew, Greek, &c. although the archaistic forms used in magical texts would make the language sound like a totally different one.

In Finland we have so young written culture that we do not have such sophisticated magical systems; our magic was oral & bound to poetic rhythm.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Utthavat
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:29 am

Re: Numerical Symbolism

Post by Utthavat »

by Jiva » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:20 pm
"I thought I'd also use this post/topic to ask if anyone knows if there are any traditions of gematria (or similar practices) in languages other than Arabic, Greek and Hebrew, for example Sanskrit or Asian languages? Sanskrit gematria is obliquely mentioned in David Fideler's Jesus Christ, Sun of God, but isn't expanded on at all."
After finding this chart called Kula-Akula-Cakra, which is a representation of the 50 letters of the Sanskrit alphabet divided in to five groups by the elements of Wind (Air), Fire, Earth, Water and Ether, from Georg Feuerstein's "Tantra - The Path of Ecstacy", I started thinking if I could find some info on how these alphabets could be linked to ideas of emanation in tantric tradition.
After some search I found from internet a pdf of this thesis written by Eric Robert Dorman called: "Pieces of Vāc - A Study of The Letters of The Sanskrit Alphabet and Their Metaphysical Role in The Emanation of Manifest Reality as Described in Select Hindu Tantras".
This thesis is very interesting thesis and if I understood correctly, it seems to link the letters to emanation for example according to Kashmir Shaivism.
I am a total rookie in the language and I've been planning to dig into the basics of Sanskrit language for a while now. I think that it was of great inspirational support for me to find these emanation theories combined to the alphabet. The forms of the Sanskrit alphabet seem a little challenging for me to remember so it feels that linking them with processes of emanation is supporting and vivifying my learning processes.
Deconstructing the alphabet from the top down, the first organizational aspect is the separation of the vowels (svaras) and the consonants (vyañjanas). The vowels come first and represent the initial stages of emanation. Depending on the particular view, the vowels represent either ultimate Śiva itself or his highest Śakti. Regardless, a through aḥ (visarga) represent the arising of manifestation and serve as the foundation of all other letters. Thus, Śiva or Śiva-Śakti are present throughout the alphabet.

A is said to be (citśakti), the sakti of consciousness, and the subsequent source of all letters. It is Śiva, the divine consciousness. Thus ā represents divine consciousness and itself, since phonetically, and thus metaphysically, ā is the product of a + a. This union of divine consciousness and itself represents the inseparable union (yāmala) of Śiva and Śakti in a state of absolute bliss (ānanda).

Next comes i, representing the power of will (icchaśakti), followed by ī, representing the power of sovereignty or of reigning (īśana). The beginnings of light into the process of manifestation occur at the emergence of u, which corresponds to awakening or coming forth (unmeṣa), culminating in the stage of power of knowledge (jñānaśakti). The first six sounds (a to ū) sum up in the form of ū, which represents the bīja, "seed," for the entirety of the svaras.

The next set of vowels (ṛ, ṝ, ḷ, and ḹ) hold a rather interesting place in the cosmogony of the Sanskrit alphabet and will be treated with much more detail below. For now it will suffice to say that they represent a pause in the emanation and offer a subtler transition of gradation. ṛ is the manifestation of icchaśakti in a purely settled form, while ṝ represents the same śakti in a more unsettled or perturbed form. The corresponding double representation of the power of will (icchaśakti) then puts forth ḷ and ḹ as it reaches the stability of the earth.

The diphthongs (e, ai, o, and au) reach the level of power of action (kriyāśakti) beginning with e, a euphonic combination of a and i, and its "long" form ai, the euphonic combination of a and e. The kriyāśakti becomes more manifest as the letter o emerges from the combination of a and u and reaches full manifestation at au, the combination of a and o.

The final two svaras (aṃ and aḥ) carry enough metaphysical weight to fill volumes. However, in the terms of basic phonetic emanation they provide both a summation of svaras and a fluid transition into vyañjanas. The bindu, or anusvara, represented as aṃ, depicts the entirety of the fourteen vowels already manifested and serves to represent the singular, dimensionless point of Śiva in his Absolute form, as is evidenced by its graphic use in the devanāgarī script as a singular dot (.). If the anusvara as a single point represents the unity of Śiva-Śakti then the meaning of aḥ. (visarga), graphically represented as two points (:), is self-apparent. The division of the ultimate consciousness into two, namely Śiva and Śakti, sets off the creation of the manifest world, and thus at the culmination of the vowels, representative of the divine powers of Śiva-Śakti, visarga sets the stage for the next round of emanation, represented by the consonants. Hoens remarks that the second-tier emanation also represents a "liberation" from condensed unity as is evidenced by the escape of breath that is the functional part of visarga.

The next stage of emanation of the letters of the Sanskrit alphabet covers the emergence of the consonants (vyañjanas). Consonants are secondary to the vowels and, in fact, can only exist, phonetically and metaphysically, with the aid of vowels. Vowels are the seeds (bījas), the expressive elements (vācaka), while the consonants are the wombs (yonis), the expressed elements (vācya). As Hoens quotes from Jayaratha's commentary on Abhinavagupta' s Tantrāloka, "the vowels are the ultimate cause of all the letters," and thus every letter from here on out condenses directly from the vowels, which are the themselves direct elements of the Absolute.

The condensation (ghanatā) of the consonants goes as follows: a condenses to form the gutturals (kaṇṭhya), which are the stops (sparśa) ka through gha and the nasal (anunāsika) ṅa; ṛ condenses to form the palatals (tālavya), which are the sparśa ca through jha and the anunāsika ña; r condenses to form the retroflexes (or cerebrals) (mūrdhanya), which are the sparśa ṭa through ḍha and the anunāsika ṇa; ḷ condenses to form the dentals (dantya), which are the sparsa ta through dha and the anunāsika na; and u condenses to form the labials (oṣṭhya), which are the sparśa pa through bha and the anunāsika ma. The semivowels (anataḥstha) emerge next as ya derives from i, ra from ṛ, la from ḷ, and va from u (+a). Then come the sibilants (ūṣman) as śa emerges from i, ṣa from ṛ, and sa from ḷ. The letter ha emerges at some point but does not receive direct treatment in this particular rendition of the alphabet. Hoens mentions only that ha is a gross form of visarga. Nonetheless, ha needs mention as it does count in the fifty letters. Finally, the last letter in the emanation of the alphabet is kṣa. This combination of ka and sa represents the entirety of the alphabet as it contains within itself the a element, which is supreme consciousness and root of all the vowels, all consonants, and the visarga element, as well as the first and last consonants, making it self-inclusive in the total of fifty Sanskrit letters.
- "Pieces of Vāc - A Study of The Letters of The Sanskrit Alphabet and Their Metaphysical Role in The Emanation of Manifest Reality as Described in Select Hindu Tantras" written by Eric Robert Dorman

Here is a link to a website where you can download the full thesis in pdf form for free. I ran virus scan and the file is clean.

https://1lib.sk/book/877282/ae3cf6?id=8 ... =recommend
User avatar
Smaragd
Posts: 1120
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:27 am

Re: Numerical Symbolism

Post by Smaragd »

Utthavat wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:48 pm
Next comes i, representing the power of will (icchaśakti), followed by ī, representing the power of sovereignty or of reigning (īśana). The beginnings of light into the process of manifestation occur at the emergence of u, which corresponds to awakening or coming forth (unmeṣa), culminating in the stage of power of knowledge (jñānaśakti). The first six sounds (a to ū) sum up in the form of ū, which represents the bīja, "seed," for the entirety of the svaras.
Trying to follow this with the reflections from my more based understanding of the Threefold Key model, it seems the seed is roughly a similar thing as the Key as a whole with the idea that the shaktis, the long vowels, are the powers the lower triangle represents, and as a whole they seem to have created a cube, which could be seen as the key closed on itself – the six corners of the two triangles making the six corners of the cube. This also reminds me of one of the permutations of the Key – The Chalice of Mount Argarizim (printed on some versions of Argarizim and Unseen Fire I p. 83) – which has a square center, which I have often imagined rather as a cube.

Closed as a cube, the six sounds really seem like a seed which is to open and sprout somehow. And as the alpabetical schema of emanation continues with the next two set of vowels almost like creating cross tangents within the cube, and being that fra Benemal just mentioning Hellraiser and the Cenobites elsewhere, this cube and a seed which has a sort of serene meaning sitting on the top of the ”mountain” as a temple in the forementioned permutation, it might sprout out in the fashion the Demon’s Cube in Hellraiser opens. ”ṛ is the manifestation of icchaśakti in a purely settled form, while ṝ represents the same śakti in a more unsettled or perturbed form.” While this description is quite neutral and can be taken as simply manifest and latent, it can also draw out visions where the tagents penetrate and rip the flesh of the one trying to open the Cube carelessly. Cenobites are sort of like astral forms our mind has drawn of the beings within these shaktis, operating those tangents and following the direct command of the free willed human being who unfortunately falls a victim of themselves. While such depiction in fiction often have more archetypal power hungry criminals seeking to open these Pandora’s Boxes, it is quite clear to me that pretty much all suffering in the world comes to the concept of the Demon’s Cube and there is no escape in the attempt to cast the archetypal power hungry villain out of oneself.

The two set of vowels I mentioned in the previous paragraph seem to be creating a connection from the latent seed on to the fully manifest coarse material proportions, thus the tangents of ṛ-ṝ & ḷ-ḹ have opened the seed up in to a cross of spirit-matter. This is also why the Cenobites render flesh in to new forms, although in Hellraiser, they do it in the most horrible and ill paced, jagged, fashion.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
Utthavat
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:29 am

Re: Numerical Symbolism

Post by Utthavat »

Thank you for the ideas frater Smaragd!

I will look in to the permutations found from Unseen Fire that you mentioned and keep looking for the connections in the puzzle box.

Funny coincidence and interesting that you mentioned Hellraiser. When I was a kid that was the first horror movie that I managed to watch in secret from my parents. The image of the wrong opening of the cube did keep haunting me, in a way that only thinking of it gave me the creeps. At that age, It was good that the movie was hidden from me, for a good reason obviously, but then again, ofcourse, that made me a whole lot more curious about it.

I actually had not thought about it, but my growing interest to the Demon's cube might still in some way echo that "curiosity/trauma/obsession" and realizing this can maybe bring some patience to my study of the concept.
Locked