I am a follower of the Current 218 since late 2008 and I will try to answer some of your questions. I work primarily in the Necrosophic Current 182 as presented in the Liber Falxifer I & II by the T.F.C.
No. The TOTBL once existed within the MLO.Insanus wrote:Just to be clear:
TOTBL = Temple of the Black Light
MLO = Misanthropic Luciferian Order (old name for the same group)
Short answer, it does not. While many occult movements might be comparable, the followers of 218 make a very sharp distinction between form and Essence. For example, the Naamah of the Current 218 can therefore only be worked with through the ritual practice of that same tradition and what you meet will differ greatly from what you might reach within other systems and settings. We might all perhaps be refered to as occultists, however to me the difference is as great as that between a buddhist monk and a priest.Seeker666 wrote:how does their tradition compare to ours? just as a side by side comparison not better or worse.
I can only give you a recommendation towards the actual publications instead of wikipedia to base such "feelings" on, lest your "feelings" might be mistaken for "the fear of that which you don't understand". Within 218/182 practicing necrophilia would break unforgivable taboos as well as being counter-productive initiatory wise, which brings us to the second part of your post, what might be seen by spectators concerning the breaking of the bonds to this world is what some perceive as "extreme militant nihlism". Practicing any "philias" for their own sake is, from our perspective, naturally counter-productive to what we strife to achieve, as it is binding.Insanus wrote:Makes me feel like the point is to glorify necrophilous passions & that the religious feeling is more important than the goal of cosmic dissolution itself. Wikipedia mentioned they teach "extreme militant nihilism". What is this extremity and how is it important?
This Nefastos you quote clearly does not subscribe to the teachings of forms and Essences. My truth is not his truth, whatever he might have written in his book, to each their own reality, so to speak. I personally believe that mankind was the demiurgs "crown of creation", created in his image in his attempt at self-glorification, thus being a mirror of all his weakness and his obsessions, thus in fighting mankind and one's own humanity one might find the Keys needed for Ascension. As above so below, some might say. There are Points that one might touch upon in conscious acts of violence, again our ways are not your ways.Fomalhaut wrote:There had been relevant answers given related to this subject in other topics. To give an example, I would like to quote from the post of fra Nefastos on "Anti-Cosmic Philosophy in Satanism" topic:
Quote:
If one believes in karma, i.e. energetical bonds created by mind, there is no point trying to destroy mankind by force. Even if we destroyed the whole planet, the real psychic bonds would be there, even more than ever. The true "heaviest matter" keeping the soul imprisoned is emotional and intellectual, not physical. (This will be explained in the book Argarizim, now available only in Finnish.)
Because of this, that "literal destruction of mankind" we are after is the one that can only be accomplished by ascension, that is, by finding release from earthly existence by understanding it totally, not by ripping oneself or others out of it by force.
This is why Gnosticism has that particular name: Gnostics believed in the dualistic strife (spirit rising against matter) in the cosmos that is fundamentally monistic - a paradox, there. But even Gnostics believed the way to do is by gnosis: the spiritual knowledge. The use of violence - spiritual, astral or physical - to create perfect anticosmic night is doomed to fail, because the occult bondage ("karma") will be left even if the whole planet is destroyed. If there would be no such karma, there would be no reincarnation, and without reincarnation, anti-cosmicist's job would be easy as pie: just to kill oneself & to find annihilation that easily. Sadly that's not how it works.
The more recent publication goes more into depth with the Chaosophy of 218, however I strongly suspect that non-practitioners will gain naught but an oddity for their library by acquiring it. Practice is the way.Jiva wrote:I'm not sure what you mean in the first part, but I do agree with you to an extent regarding religious feeling. Most publications of the TotBL and related organisations devote the majority of their space to rituals. I've no problem with rituals and so on, but I'd prefer to have some sort of more developed philosophical position, although one could say that these rituals – which are fairly explicit in their intention – are designed to foster the over-riding philosophy by a total ceremonial immersion.
Yes, outside the context of personal reasons (I love animals) there are spiritual reasons why not to spoil the sacrifice with stress or pain, I view it primarily as giving life and only secondary as taking. I personally under-go a period of bonding with the animal a week before the ritual to also include a part of my ego as the sacrifice, I cant speak for none other than myself but I highly doubt any practitioner of the Current 218 take any delight in the ritual slaughter of animals, it's something that is done purely out of necessity. Our own blood is given for other reasons in other contexts.Jiva wrote:I was going to refer to Wyrmfang's post in that thread . But yeah, as Nefastos mentioned in that quote, I don't subscribe to their basically Gnostic black/white views. However, I do think that the supposed violence of the TotBL is exaggerated somewhat. Sure, there is some which some members/guests may object to, but not a huge amount. The primary example I can think of is animal sacrifice, the instructions of which state that it “must therefore be conducted with the greatest of respect and care for the animal so offered” (The Book of Sitra Achra, p.306). Another is by cutting oneself to use one's blood as part of a ritual, which is stated in the context of only acquiring a few drops.
I'm not especially sure how to view the confrontational, spiritual violence in their rituals. Violence is often used in mythological contexts as a purely symbolic device, perhaps also during rituals.
Again, there is no value in comparing the path of the "Star of Azazel" with the path of the Current 218. In my tradition creation is the world of white darkness and we achieve the 1-1=0 by bringing the impulses of the Black Light here through our Work, by evening the scales.Kenazis wrote:I was very interested on TOBL/MLO few years back and I read their publications still, but what bugs me is that their aim is somewhat opposite than the Star of Azazel. While SoA aims for the uniting the paths etc. ToBL openly promotes violent activities against "others" and sees themselves as "the only ones that are right". To me this seems like an extreme answer to christianity (and other "Right" paths) a la "You follow only White God and you think you are only ones that knows, so we follow only Black Anti-God and no-one knows the truth, but us." ...still I think they got some very good and interesting points and theories.
Naturally, if one believes that the very few contain a Spark of Divinity and the majority lacks this, and one strife to make that Spark into a Great Fire then you might understand why those perceived as "spiritless" have very little to no value. Also please see my earlier answer to Fomalhaut concerning mankind.Seeker666 wrote:VERY much agreed. for a tradition centered around supposedly dissolving the "clay-born ego" they sure are elitist!
I never liked traditions that claimed to be the "one true path" because that is bullshit. there are many paths to the divine... I still like some of the points they make however... and their mythology/lore is inspiring.
"Bullshit" to you perhaps, I personally believe that there is but one True Path to Divinity and that is the Essence of 218. What's divine for you is not divine for me, and vice versa.
If you cannot see yourself going "that way" anymore you never really walked there.
With risk for repeating myself, even in a theoretical case where an operator for some strange reason really hates the animal to be given it would still be sacrificed swiftly with care and respect as to not spoil the sacrifice with pain, trauma or stress. I prefer one swift stroke with a heavy machete. Believe it or not but personally I grew up on a farm where we had hens and roosters and on Sundays we beheaded a chick or two solely for eating. I do not respect strong opinions on animal sacrifice unless they come from a vegan, those who wear leather jackets or eat hamburgers cause trauma to the animals, everyone knows where meat comes from and worse so an act when done uncaring and indirect, in my book.Heith wrote:I think it's rather questionable to take this to mean that they actually do treat the animals with "care and respect". What does that even mean? It's mentioned on a piece of paper somewhere. It does not make it so.
I am extremely suspicious about this sort of thing. I think it is fundamentally so wrong that I have nothing but utter contempt to societies and persons that suggest that such a lowly act would be required, desirable or somehow ok. And for some reason I do not believe that TOTBL (or any society that would promote this sort of stunts) are people who grow their own food, and are able to give those animals a decent (stress-free, painless and quick) ending when the time for that comes. I suspect the animals they would pick for this sort of "ritual" wouldn't even be something they would eat.
I do not believe eating to be of a higher value than my spiritual practice.
Not in the west perhaps... Animal sacrifice is part of most rural or ATR traditions in the world. In Asian Witchcraft, Hoodoo, Santeria, Quimbanda, Vudou... Perhaps they also "quite don't grasp what spirituality, sacrifice or magical powers really are about."?Kenazis wrote:bit an offtopic, but about religious animal sacrifice that some authors keep in high respect...I think that when you think killing animals is some holy act of sacrifice to God or Satan or whatever, you quite don't grasp what spirituality, sacrifice or magical powers really are about.
Fact is most magicians in the world practice animal sacrifice and know why it is important (In many ways I believe the west is a protected workshop) however it's really not the oddity people want to make of it. The teachings of the ToTBL have been manifested by people who are also involved in ATR practice like Quimbanda and my guess is that the practice of animal sacrifice comes from there.
Our Kliffot is not your "Qlippoth", again forms and Essences, because names in themselves are nothing, it's about Charge. Unless your practicing 218 through one of it's lines of practice your doing something else than what we do, and this is important to remember, I believe, also for your own growth into your own tradition.Seeker666 wrote:I do believe blood is the key to the gates of Qlippoth. But not the blood of some other creature.
The kingdom of qlippoth is within you. Your blood is its key. An always remember there is as much power in a single drop spilled In reverence as there is in gallons spilled in ego.
I do not see how your great finnish occultist Pekka's views on yoga has anything to do with the practices of 218. Occultism is not occultism, contrary to popular belief.Nefastos wrote:Our great Finnish occultist Pekka Ervast (1875-1934) wrote in one his letters:
"In the practical yoga we must understand that the actual kâma rupa i.e. the desire body is in one's blood, and is not a body in the formal sense of the word. In the formal sense there is no other body than the said etheric body [linga sharîra], although we must also speak of other kinds of vehicles." (Epistle 12)
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I will be monitoring this thread and will be happy to further discuss the subjects and try my very best to answer the questions some of you might have regarding the teachings of the Current 218, but I would sincerely prefer to do so in a more worthy and mature tone than the one that has been governing this thread prior to my arrival.
Hail Lucifer!