The Star of Azazel - Azazelin Tähti

Okay, I'm putting this here and not in Philosophy because the description of this board includes "convictions" and "morals." I think it is more appropriate here than elsewhere.

I think we can agree that, in our terminology of Ascension and Descension/Regression, that all people, even those on different spiritual paths or not spiritual path they are personally aware of at all, are on paths of either Ascension or Regression. I have a thought, it came to me just now, that one of the most defining, possibly even the MOST defining, difference between these paths is one of fra. Nefastos's favorite points... honesty.

Think about the truly "good" people, not just in a religious and moral sense, but anyone you truly are drawn to and want to be around because of the positive way about them and live that they make you feel. Are they not most often people you'd describe as "real" or "genuine"? If you can describe anyone as a "bad" person, or at least refer to the effect they have on those around them as "bad," is there not usually an element of untruth about them? Not just that you cannot trust their words, but also that you feel they are not being sincere and truthful with their innermost selves? That they are in denial of their essential human nature?

I feel these things very strongly. One cannot truly be on a Path of Ascension without sincerity and truthfulness, particularly to oneself, because all outward honesty flows from that. Conversely, those whose lives are based on dishonesty with themselves, and others flowing out from that, are on a Path of Regression, taking them further away from any Truth in the Spirit that we who want to Ascend strive after. Even those who would deny our concepts of Paths of Ascension and Regression, I feel, are on one or the other, except for maybe some who are so neutral and mundane and animalistic that they are simply fence-sitting and treading water, and those are the ones that Christ in Revelation says he spits out of his mouth for they are neither hot nor cold. But those who truly live their lives actively are Ascending or Descending and much of that differences hinges, to me, on their own honestly, inward and outward. Thoughts?

A big topic.

Your (or Nefastos'?) point of genuineness & staying true to his/her innermost self is probably very true.
I also think that anyone who is on the ascending path sees that he/she could be on the descending one as well, while the one who is on the descending path doesn't see any other options. I think that has a lot to do with the awakening of buddhi as they (us?) call it & also with leaving Nirvana, and deciding to rather stay here/in hell. If we'd take the theme to wholly (pseudo-)philosophical level, it might be argued that the whole downward path is impossible & everything is the same path of oneness and blah blah, but then we are obviously making things a bit too simple.
By seeing everything as the ascending path we are secretly flowing downwards in heavy magnetism and sort of expressing a need to descend.
On the other hand, if we don't want to open our eyes to see the world's suffering, even though we could, maybe we are not quite so low as we could instantly think we are.

Sebomai wrote:except for maybe some who are so neutral and mundane and animalistic that they are simply fence-sitting and treading water, and those are the ones that Christ in Revelation says he spits out of his mouth for they are neither hot nor cold.

What an aphorism! Such neutrality would be an immense source of pure -magical, one might say- power.

Yes, I think it certainly can be seen like that. Being dishonest in dealings with other people is to be dishonest with oneself too, for it's a two-way window to reality we're smearing. Our very mind twists with every perversion of truth we attend to. Even of the "white lies" we must pay a price in our occult development. Or, to say it more positively: careful & tactful & true honesty is one of the greatest instruments for one's occult development. And I don't mean just philosophical abilities & overall level of attainment, but even certain psychical skills.

Sebomai wrote:That they are in denial of their essential human nature?

Yes. The old language tended to say it in a way that this kind of people "give themselves to their animal side", but that's very inaccurate way of saying it, in my opinion. Being a full human being is to be many things, animal being one of them. But the whole "pentagram" (microcosm, one's true self) must be made whole in a way that finds true places for different things.

Ultimately, that comes to finding the sources for all the three fundamental principles of one's personality - material, emotional, rational; and their collection as dynamical Choice (that's being made at every moment).

Because of that I wrote in Fosforos that the downward path can be chosen because of three reasons, one for every aspect of the higher triad: Because of the perversion of misunderstanding one's manas, buddhi, or atma. What this means, is:

1) Rejecting the ideal of truth, instead turning to something one knows is just a pleasant or useful lie.
2) Rejecting the ideal of compassion, hardening one's heart against the suffering of other creatures.
3) Rejecting the ideal of unity, choosing to stress one's personality at the expense of everything else.

Here we might notice that the downward path escalates in, or with the aid of, the unrecognized highest "sins" with which one becomes indentified: Despair & Pride. Despair makes one reject an ideal of the most abstract & praiseful kind, e.g. Truth, because one no longer believes in it after a chain of seriously bad experiences (which might be just inherited or cultural challenges of the psychological kind, instead of any major traumas). Thus "Love" or "Truth" or "Doing what is right" no longer hold any good associations; they become mocking words, & that's real despair - fundamental loss of faith. And/or, one's personal pride comes to offer another, "more original" choice of choosing the downward path.

Insanus wrote:By seeing everything as the ascending path we are secretly flowing downwards in heavy magnetism and sort of expressing a need to descend.

This, if I understood right what you meant, is what I see as the major problem with the Right Hand Path occultism. Too often it wants to focus itself only to the "higher", and because of that, the "lower" actually becomes super heavy with the densest kind of refused magnetism. An occultist is like an alchemist's vessel in that that actually very little can be taken out or put in when the process is in action. All kind of open or secret dualism becomes like one's Achilles' heel.

And that's the reason why I see that Satanism is a great, if demanding, way of occult advancement. Joining positive associations even to the most negative of things - like the downward path, sins, & cetera - we can also more easily take the dross out of them. Like attracts like, & our positive understanding slowly changes the whole substance. But yeah, it also puts us in great danger, because we might fall in love with that we symphatized, & in that case the putrid essence starts to vampirize us. It's a very real danger.

To conclude this quite long message, I'd say that in a way, that also helps to see a good thing in dishonesty (!). Many people are not truly interested in, let's say, Satanism. They are in for the kicks, thinking it's cool & makes them special. And just because they are false, they actually do not come in full contact with those things that are too strong for anyone to discuss, much less work with, lightly. I, like many young people, used to disdain people who are not "serious". Now I've come to see that shallowness is a wisdom of sorts; it helps people unable to swim to keep from drowning. So, lacking the thirst of abslute truth, the tepidness you spoke of, also has its uses. It works as a safety net for the grand majority. I agree that the Master (whoever he is for anyone) cannot tolerate that; those people will be cast out - but not from life, only from the occult work. But even that is better than choosing the ardent strife one's actually incapable of & thus becoming irrevocably twisted & mentally shattered by it, which is the downward path of choosing the absurdity of dishonesty & violence.