Page 2 of 4
Re: Meaningful Work Under Difficult Circumstances
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:05 pm
by Polyhymnia
Mars wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:48 pm
No joke: I've sometimes wondered in some difficult situations what would Dale Cooper do if he were in this situation instead of me.
Excellent choice! I imagine his choice would naturally be accompanied by a DAMN fine cup of coffee.
I often use Galadriel in my example to myself. Though I'm probably more a Frodo or maybe sometimes a Samwise.
Re: Meaningful Work Under Difficult Circumstances
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:49 pm
by Mars
LotR-wise, apart from the usual suspects Aragorn and Gandalf, I'm very fascinated by the figure of Theoden. His character arc is magnificent, from the deep gloom and depression under Grima Wormtongue to liberation by Gandalf and the eventual death and victory in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. Bernard Hill did a perfect job in portraying him in the films.
Tolkien and Lord of the Rings
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:33 am
by Nefastos
You are right. Yet I am more into Denethor, who "looked indeed much more like a great wizard than Gandalf did" (5:1). His pride, his despair, his iron self control that ultimately proved to be worse than being broken were woven so skillfully, tragically, and remind me of my own shortcomings. It was horrible to see that character being mutilated in the film version into a repulsive parody.
Uhh, I think I'll move this discussion into our Lord of the Rings thread, didn't we have also such mathom lying somewhere around here...
Re: Meaningful Work Under Difficult Circumstances
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:27 pm
by Astraya
Polyhymnia wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:05 pmI often use Galadriel in my example to myself. Though I'm probably more a Frodo or maybe sometimes a Samwise.
The best example ever! I too admire her absolute grace and wisdom
Re: Tolkien and Lord of the Rings
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:37 pm
by Mars
Wikipedia
interestingly notes how Denethor and Theoden are almost opposites starting from their names, which are almost anagrams.
I was equally disappointed and delighted with the LotR-films. Obviously the task of turning such books into films was hard, but the sheer dedication of the film crew is enough for me to forgive most of the mutilations and cartoonish elements. When I watched the making of sequences I could only marvel the work people put into this. A fine example is the building of Edoras in a remote, windswept valley. The Hobbit films, on the other hand... Well, they are horrible.
Re: Meaningful Work Under Difficult Circumstances
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:57 am
by Polyhymnia
Astraya wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:27 pm
Polyhymnia wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:05 pmI often use Galadriel in my example to myself. Though I'm probably more a Frodo or maybe sometimes a Samwise.
The best example ever! I too admire her absolute grace and wisdom
It is something to be admired for sure!
I have yet to see the hobbit movies, but Mars isn't the first person I've heard they were terrible from. I'm kind of a simpleton in that way though. I tend to enjoy most things I watch in one way or another. Maybe I'll find some time to give it a watch.
Re: Meaningful Work Under Difficult Circumstances
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:36 am
by Smaragd
Polyhymnia wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:57 am
Astraya wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:27 pm
Polyhymnia wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:05 pmI often use Galadriel in my example to myself. Though I'm probably more a Frodo or maybe sometimes a Samwise.
The best example ever! I too admire her absolute grace and wisdom
It is something to be admired for sure!
I have yet to see the hobbit movies, but Mars isn't the first person I've heard they were terrible from. I'm kind of a simpleton in that way though. I tend to enjoy most things I watch in one way or another. Maybe I'll find some time to give it a watch.
Joining the Galadriel fan club. I recall once watching the movies again mostly because of her character and Cate Blanchett's sublime acting.
I managed to enjoy the Hobbit movies by admiring the superficial things. Like the Lake-town was just fantastic to look at. Bit bored by the action stuff and the whole made to entertain style, but there's relatively often times I like to rest by watching something childish like that.
Re: Tolkien and Lord of the Rings
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:10 am
by Kenazis
Smaragd wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:36 am
Polyhymnia wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:57 am
Astraya wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:27 pm
The best example ever! I too admire her absolute grace and wisdom
It is something to be admired for sure!
I have yet to see the hobbit movies, but Mars isn't the first person I've heard they were terrible from. I'm kind of a simpleton in that way though. I tend to enjoy most things I watch in one way or another. Maybe I'll find some time to give it a watch.
Joining the Galadriel fan club. I recall once watching the movies again mostly because of her character and Cate Blanchett's sublime acting.
I managed to enjoy the Hobbit movies by admiring the superficial things. Like the Lake-town was just fantastic to look at. Bit bored by the action stuff and the whole made to entertain style, but there's relatively often times I like to rest by watching something childish like that.
I think the Hobbit movies are ok. They are a bit more childish and superficial, but so is the Hobbit book compared the LOTR books. In LOTR books (I have read them 1996 and 2000 if I remember correctly) my favorite part was the Shelob and Mines of Moria, but in the movie the "coolest" character was the Mouth of Sauron. Never been a fan of Gollum and in the movies it is the most annoying one. In books and movies I have always liked most the journeys alone and the caves and underground things, and least favorable are the big war and fighting scenes (they are soooo booring...).
Re: Tolkien and Lord of the Rings
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:20 pm
by Smaragd
Kenazis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:10 am
I think the Hobbit movies are ok. They are a bit more childish and superficial, but so is the Hobbit book compared the LOTR books.
Yep. Through a documentary, I came to an understanding that Hobbits, and thus probably the whole writing project around Middle Earth, came from Tolkien writing stories to his children. Thus the more fairytale nature of the Hobbit book and the movie is at place. And after all, the emphasised hobbit perspective sort of calls for it, where as LOTR is like the ending of childhood: Frodo doesn't want the burden of the One Ring, yet it has fallen to be his responsibility. Large part of the sympathy towards his great bearing comes from the fact that he is a little hobbit from the safe haven (lintukoto) of Shire.
Kenazis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:10 am
In LOTR books (I have read them 1996 and 2000 if I remember correctly) my favorite part was the Shelob and Mines of Moria, but in the movie the "coolest" character was the Mouth of Sauron.
When the (ex-)fellowship members meet both Galadriel and Mouth of Sauron, they are both sort of trialing moments where Galadriel weights the hearts of the members of fellowship, granting them boons, while Mouth of Sauron tests the weak spots of those who have fallen from the immediate fellowship of the ring by showing them items belonging to Frodo and Sam.
Re: Tolkien and Lord of the Rings
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:01 pm
by Nefastos
Smaragd wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:20 pm
Kenazis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:10 am
I think the Hobbit movies are ok. They are a bit more childish and superficial, but so is the Hobbit book compared the LOTR books.
Yep. Through a documentary, I came to an understanding that Hobbits, and thus probably the whole writing project around Middle Earth, came from Tolkien writing stories to his children. Thus the more fairytale nature of the Hobbit book and the movie is at place.
Objection, your Honors. Even though Tolkien indeed wrote to children, he also was clear in his opinion that children were no idiots, but an audience who deserved serious, well-weighed, intelligent stories. This is very evident from his letters. He even felt shame afterwards about some children's book elements in the Hobbit, even though in the original book there is nothing to be ashamed of: deep caring of the reader is as obvious as the blatant blindness to everything tasteful & soulful in the Hobbit films.
In case one would like to have a glimpse what Tolkien would think about the films, I suggest to take a peek at his letter to Forrest J. Ackerman in June 1958, where he whips mercilessly a Lord of the Rings film storyline that was in the making by then. For example, he is deeply disappointed in how much the fight have been accentuated, which is something seen underlinedly in the later films. (In my Finnish compilation of Tolkien's letters, edited by Humphrey Carpenter, I have marked the following pages to the category "What would have Tolkien thought about the movies, from which most people know him nowadays ": 314, 321, 324, 328, 336, 341, 344-348.)
The thing that gives myself, a dedicated Tolkien fanboy as you may notice, the most grief, is how the inner beauty of the characters has often been mutilated for nothing in all the film adaptations. Touching, hope-giving grace & depth of many a character has been changed to ugly, self-serving and base, while most of the mindless, needless, dull everyday self-centeredness & violence has been multiplied and underlined, and forcefully put into places where it was conspicuosly absent in the originals.
To give the LoTR films some credit, besides the obvious outer beauty, is that there is still present much of that original grace in many important characters (Aragorn, Galadriel, Gandalf...). But it just makes more odd that lack in the others. Some decisions can be traced to the supposed need for drama (Frodo & Sam), even though the choice was very, very bad. In some others, there is no reason at all, only a story that has commited suicide in a most important part of its arc (Faramir, Frodo holding the ring to the Nazgûl).
Also, welcome to the deep end of the nerd pool 
