The Star of Azazel - Azazelin Tähti

I've been doing a little bit of physics lately because, as an introvert, I always need some topic I can escape into when my fellow human beings get to be too much for me. In particle physics one inevitably comes to the realization that matter does not actually consist of matter, but of energy. But we do not really know what this energy is. I'd like to think that eyerything has a soul. Something that keeps matter from falling apart. Therfore everything shares one energetic core.
This thought is very helpful for me, because I still feel like an Alien most of the time.
...and even Aliens are made of matter.

Cerastes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:19 pm This thought is very helpful for me, because I still feel like an Alien most of the time.
...and even Aliens are made of matter.

I really like the idea. Reminds me how many philosophical schools see matter as our oldest manifested instrument wherefrom the evolution to more complex instruments begin. When it comes to the energy, keeping the matter from falling apart, soul is an excellent term. Another view point to the same thing could be gained in seeing abstract chaotic matter given intelligent structure by spirit, the latter of which defines how the material particles connect to each other i.e. gives it the molecular structure which defines it as a mineral or something else, and together with the abstract matter carries the life force of the First Cause (active Oneness) which keeps things together. A more complex way of understanding soul, which could be made use of in trying to apply that soul to things it is yet unable to connect to. I really like the idea of the intelligent agent of the spirit that must be used to pave the way to actual soulful connections. It seems accurate to me considering how things aren't automaticly connecting, we are not yet in the state of Oneness despite sharing the same essential root, we rather need to work and find the way to get there.

Smaragd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:27 pm

Cerastes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:19 pm This thought is very helpful for me, because I still feel like an Alien most of the time.
...and even Aliens are made of matter.

really like the idea of the intelligent agent of the spirit that must be used to pave the way to actual soulful connections. It seems accurate to me considering how things aren't automaticly connecting, we are not yet in the state of Oneness despite sharing the same essential root, we rather need to work and find the way to get there.

I was reading your comment and listenting to the song Arials (System of a down) when I realised that the text of the song was actually a very good analogy to parts of your comment.


"Life is a waterfall,we're one in the river, one again after the fall." - We all start off the same and we all end up the same.

"Swimming through the void, we hear the words,we lose ourselves, but we find it all."

Nice synchronicity

Cerastes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:11 pm Nice synchronicity

And from poetry and philosophy, back to physics.

Uh, I may need your help here, brethren. Because:
I seem to have recently fallen into an insidious trap of logic/intuition/crisis of "faith"(!) whilst debating cosmological metaphysics with a Fundamental Christian (also a diagnosed schizophrenic)...yet I might very well be the lunatic here, for I just found myself uttering this kind of nonsense(?) while trying to use simplistic English:

"If we as humans (more properly our innermost spirits) are "mirror shards of the Absolute aka of the original ultimate God", we exist for that God to see itself reflected in us. Therefore, our "inner Selves" are those mirror fragments and our duty & meaning of life is to become aware of that piece of God inside each of us. To become aware of it, to reconnect with it, and thereby return to being God. Because we have forgotten (as planned) that we are God. That's the reason why the Universe exists. As a solitary game for God, so to speak.

God split/emanated itself into matter/spirit and all kinds of energies and thingies, including galaxies, stars, planets, minerals, plants, animals and us humans. Perhaps as entertainment for itself in unbearable loneliness? Nobody knows. But the end-goal seems to be that sentient life (such as we humans) fights to raise itself back to the state of Godhood.
Yes, this is a very strange, even an insane and cruel "game". But God/everything appears to work in this way, eternally creating & then destroying the Cosmos, then repeating the same forever.
It doesn't make sense...hmm, I have to think about this some more. Now that I uttered it, it seems that this whole Cosmic process is absurdly meaningless and completely horrible to contemplate from the individual human viewpoint."

Er...what is the mistake I made in the above casual ponderings, in the light of Theosophy or SoA philosophy? How did the Absolute suddenly turn into the Lovecraftian Azathoth for me? I hope I'm missing something crucial, yet profoundly simple, here.
Otherwise, what could be the point of endless manvantaras & pralayas? Eternal ex- and inhalations of the Absolute...when everything has become sentient & ascended "back to the Source", what really has been accomplished then? Back to square one, to begin it all anew again? Endlessly, "world without end". This kind of thinking leads into all kinds of futilistic mental avenues & repercussions best not thought about...terribilis est locus iste

Please help a newbie dumbass such as me understand what's afoot here...I perchance failed my Sanity Check...the San Loss could easily be D100 here

Nebenkheperu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:13 am It doesn't make sense...hmm, I have to think about this some more. Now that I uttered it, it seems that this whole Cosmic process is absurdly meaningless and completely horrible to contemplate from the individual human viewpoint.

I'm unable to answer your question fully, but I can offer some notions.

Pralaya nor even the mahapralaya is not seen as a total reset, only as the sleep of the world. Therefore the mystery builds up in each manvantara. Cf. Secret Doctrine volume I commentary on Stanza VII.7. it's only couple pages long but explains the matter superbly.

The nature of the mystery is meaningfulness itself, and when followed with steady and calm pace the world might actually make sense every once in a while. This should offer atleast important perspective to your big question.

Like the life of a little bird is precious, so are other lesser and limited forms of life. Without them, and without our own commitment to our paths and the people and other limited beings there, the mystery detaches and the meaning detaches. Grounding the philosophy deeply in to practice and not being content with mere intellectual sword fights gives roots for the mystery, offering views of the immanent red thread running through your own life and the whole manvantara itself. Intellectual challenge and philosophising is important but it won't take us there alone.

Nebenkheperu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:13 am How did the Absolute suddenly turn into the Lovecraftian Azathoth for me?

Good news, and bad news as they say. Bad news first: when it comes to revelations/crises of logic/intuition/faith, there is no end. What I mean by this, is that when I have found myself in similar situations, I can read a whole bunch of occult literature for an answer, and when the question has been satisfied, two more appear as if Hydra would have grown two heads in the place of the previous one.

I speculate: For some people this state of things I described is unbearable. The way they approach it is by adopting a rigorous ”fundamentalist” position, where the final answer to inquiries of the intellect has been frozen into place (usually in the form of some kind of authority, be it God the Father, or scripture taken literally). I think of it as a Coagula-position, that rejects any kind of attempt at becoming. For a fundamentalist, the redeemed are those who can recite the law word by word, and for this recitation to happen, it is required that law remains the same, unchanging. They are people who in their depths are very, very afraid that their world stops making any sense if they can’t have final answers to every questions.

We occultists (I guess it’s safe to say ”we” here, even though I hate in-group mentalities, and I use the word here not to designate the chosen ones, but for a means to an end), for whom the questions of spirit, love and intellect are intertwined, are usually people who are sensitive and intelligent. When discussing with others who don’t share these aspirations it is difficult to give them satisfactory answers. And when we attempt to, when we take the time and effort to jump into their perspective, we invite something that is of them to ourselves. I am coming to the idea that maybe, just maybe, your glimpse of the Azathoth is actually a shadow of the fundamentalists God. By asserting that the literal final point to all theodicy is ”just because God says so” is like playing flute to keep Azathoth dreaming, to keep the dream-images of Azathoth intact, so that he doesn’t wake up from his slumber. "Don't ask questions, just keep piping on"

Good news: This capability of inviting something of the other to ourselves is on a fundamental level (pun, sorry) a good thing. I have to say that it is very courageous for you to even start a discussion with the said individual, not to mention that you have the courage here to tell about your crisis - not all of us do. From crises of logic/intuition/faith - all the different wrestling matches we have with various angels - new insights are born, new revelations had. When I read your posts, I don't see a dumbass but a lion.

Asking questions is good. Asking questions about evil is good. Asking questions about questions about evil is good, but all of this doesn’t lead to the idea that everything is relative. God is certainly not relative, nor obvious. And this bridging together from both sides is what occult literature is good for. And here I can refer to an article ”Isn’t Satan evil?” by Nefastos: ”Satan is a being who presents the problems of existence to the soul.” It is curious that the first question in Genesis was from the mouth of a serpent.

Aperiemus wrote on topic Elementals, Demons, Hungry Ghosts and Ancestral Spirits:

It feels as if I have a different emphasis concerning the nature of how the self (not Self) functions, or what the subconscious does, that makes me prone to think that the challenges of deception or self-deception run quite deep. I have also heard a claim that when people do mnemonics, or ars memoria (such as build astral memory palaces), it is hard to disagree with the learnt material, be they bible passages, poetry, decimals of pi or what have you. This emphasis of mine might very well be a temperamental difference, or then a lack of practical astral working on my part, but if you are interested, I would be glad to discuss the issue within another topic. I remember there was a topic labeled "I see the world as..", in which that could fit nicely. That is not to say, that we can't continue here as well.

I am not particularly attached to a certain worldview. Maybe this has something to do with my temperament. I preferred to avoid fixed ideas and reflect upon different possibilities of seeing things. The surrounding culture and other phenomena influence one's own views and actions, usually unconsciously. It is good to reflect on the influence of culture, ruling religions and ideologies on one's own values and actions. If you haven’t adopted any world view as truth, it may be more natural to approach spiritual matters without prejudice. My way of learning spiritual things has been practical. In meditations, my interest is focused on consciousness and energetic aspects, not so much on philosophical contents. In my opinion, getting the most neutral information possible in the astral is influenced mostly by clarity of mind and an open attitude. Preconceptions easily distort experiences.

Nebenkheperu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:13 am Uh, I may need your help here, brethren. Because:
I seem to have recently fallen into an insidious trap of logic/intuition/crisis of "faith"(!) whilst debating cosmological metaphysics with a Fundamental Christian (also a diagnosed schizophrenic)...yet I might very well be the lunatic here, for I just found myself uttering this kind of nonsense(?) while trying to use simplistic English:

"If we as humans (more properly our innermost spirits) are "mirror shards of the Absolute aka of the original ultimate God", we exist for that God to see itself reflected in us. Therefore, our "inner Selves" are those mirror fragments and our duty & meaning of life is to become aware of that piece of God inside each of us. To become aware of it, to reconnect with it, and thereby return to being God. Because we have forgotten (as planned) that we are God. That's the reason why the Universe exists. As a solitary game for God, so to speak.

God split/emanated itself into matter/spirit and all kinds of energies and thingies, including galaxies, stars, planets, minerals, plants, animals and us humans. Perhaps as entertainment for itself in unbearable loneliness? Nobody knows. But the end-goal seems to be that sentient life (such as we humans) fights to raise itself back to the state of Godhood.
Yes, this is a very strange, even an insane and cruel "game". But God/everything appears to work in this way, eternally creating & then destroying the Cosmos, then repeating the same forever.
It doesn't make sense...hmm, I have to think about this some more. Now that I uttered it, it seems that this whole Cosmic process is absurdly meaningless and completely horrible to contemplate from the individual human viewpoint."

Er...what is the mistake I made in the above casual ponderings, in the light of Theosophy or SoA philosophy? How did the Absolute suddenly turn into the Lovecraftian Azathoth for me? I hope I'm missing something crucial, yet profoundly simple, here.
Otherwise, what could be the point of endless manvantaras & pralayas? Eternal ex- and inhalations of the Absolute...when everything has become sentient & ascended "back to the Source", what really has been accomplished then? Back to square one, to begin it all anew again? Endlessly, "world without end". This kind of thinking leads into all kinds of futilistic mental avenues & repercussions best not thought about...terribilis est locus iste

Please help a newbie dumbass such as me understand what's afoot here...I perchance failed my Sanity Check...the San Loss could easily be D100 here

This pretty much depends on one's experience here is mine.

In my flawed understanding in SoA philosophy there seems to be emphasis on idea that there is friction in the "Cosmic harmony" hence the word "Polyharmony" is used.
If unity of Absolute means destruction of multiplicity it cannot be reached in any meaningful way and maybe it couldn't be seen as meaningful that one could call God/Absolute?


For me it took so much time to give up the idea of "all-devouring Sun" that burns and melts everyone and everything and finally fire molding them to be part of Itself.
For it means that all creation seize to exist. (of course one can see that nothing is lost but new perception is gained but for me the aforementioned metaphor meant life-denial)
I guess lot of religious practices and even mystical practices are related to annihilation and "dying before death" even God emptied of himself on the Cross.
If God wants to die to save humanity then it's a pretty messed up, if you ask me.


Not sure about translation of this Attar's poem if it's any correct but saw it fitting to add here. Could probably find the source later on.

At the same time I like the idea of nothingness whereas a lot of time one might expect only positive vibes from Absolute but never anything brutal.
(Although "to live is to suffer and suffering makes one grow" is another topic)
At the same time there seems to be in all major religions something quite miserable in the viewpoint of life.
When desire ends suffering stops and when suffering ends the life ends.
Even if this is "the fact" I thrive for life-affirming approach.


"If thou learnest the secret that is within the pure soul
thou art in danger of destruction
--
But all the difficulties which lie before thee are placed there
because thou art nothing
They were placed in thy pathway in order that thou mightest,
if possible, become aware of thyself"

This is difficult, for me, to speak of, but I try. Not so much because of intellectual complexity, but because there are things involved besides the rational mind, such as emotions (I know right, imagine that, spiritual questions having something to do with things other than logic )

There are three sides to the question ”I see the world as..”, that I would like to sketch out. And as it with most things, it can be spoken of with various different ways and languages. I pick the threefold approach, since it is close to me, and in SoA context it can be ”mapped out” on the terms of Hieroglyphic Key, hopefully to keep the discussion going.

I see the world of words as a veil in front of the truth, and sometimes the veil lifts up briefly, but in order to communicate this revelation one is forced to use words. This is however not only a detrimental thing, for I am also convinced that the desire for ”connection” pierces the whole of existence from the smallest particle to God. I consider, that the point of this connection, what makes it sacred so to speak, is not to undo the tension between the two actors, to ”clump them together”, but keep them separate, yet in contact with each other. This connection, I believe, is Love.

When it comes to the spark of divinity that is inside me (and within everyone, within every living thing and beyond), I think it is somewhere very, very deep. It is almost impossible to see, and I think I would have good reasons not to think it’s there. Yet I choose to believe it’s there, or something in me forces me to believe it - I’m not even sure of what is the extent of my free will. This divine spark can be called the Self.

The last bit is the most difficult for me to speak of. Here I have to use poetic language and imagery the most, and that has its downside to be mistaken for the real thing that is inexpressible (or rather, the rational side in us is the one that can easily confuse things). Or, as frater Nebenkheperu put it in another thread about symbols:

Nebenkheperu wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:09 am "what is a symbol?". To wit: a sign-post, a crutch, a finger pointing at the Moon (not just our Luna but any suitable satellite or the like); a device aiding us in our ascension.

Now, when a Self and a Self (for all I know, they could be part of the same Self) are in contact with another, a deep resonance occurs, that is felt throughout. For the reason that Love puts the Selves on a same plane, even if it’s just for a moment, the lower self (witnessing the Love between Two Selves) suddenly sees the world as if it was teeming with life, as if it was lit up by roaring flames, and time twisting and warping. That is how I ”understand” Meaning, even though ”to understand” is a gross exaggaration. Meaning is of course not only limited to burning flashes of ecstasy, but those are the most easily recognizable instances of it to the lower self.

[Edit: added one clarification]