Quotations relevant to the Path

[obnoxion]

"Lover is Satan
('ashiq 'Azazil)"

- Shah 'Abdul Latif -

[obnoxion]

"Eastern mountains travel on water."

- Great Master Kuangzhen of Yunmen -

[Jiva]

"One cannot feel a presence if one is God, because it is then one’s own presence and there is no other. If all is conscious, one knows of no presence because one is everything, so long as one is identical with the deity there is no presence. If one feels an unknown presence it means that there is something besides oneself and then one is no longer God."

Jung, Seminar on Nietzsche's Zarathustra.

[Nefastos]

"It is unclear how great one's humility must be to take it upon oneself to live one's own life. The disgust of whoever wants to enter into his own life can hardly be measured. Aversion will sicken him. He makes himself vomit. His bowels pain him and his brain sinks into lassitude.

[...] God calls me toward the right and the left, his voice calling out to me from both sides. Yet the God wants neither the one nor the other. He wants the middle way. But the middle way is the beginning of the long road."

– C.G. Jung: The Red Book, Liber Secundus, cap. XX

[Jiva]

Interesting choice of quote. Was it deliberately chosen in relation to the one I posted above or coincidence?

In any case, it’s from what I think is the most important section of The Red Book. Jung states the importance of humility and attempts to act in such a manner, but ends up raving like a megalomaniac in the following chapter. However, in the last few paragraphs of the final chapter of ‘Liber Secundus’ after Jung has realised his mistake, Jung categorically states that he and his god are not identical. And, ultimately, Psychological Types - published a few years after work stopped on The Red Book - god is described as an abstraction of the conscious ego.

It’s also at this point that Jung begins to alter what was recorded in the Black Books – what was previously rendered as his “soul” is changed into his “god”. If soul is interpreted as self – i.e. the conscious and unconscious aspects of a person – then this recognition is significant. It seems that Jung realised that, although different from the conscious side of his personality, the unconscious was an inherent part of his self to be included as part of a reconciliatory union. However, god should not be included in this reconciliation, despite it having its origin in the conscious side of the soul/self. God wants neither the conscious or unconscious, but both together - albeit necessarily driven by the conscious.

[Nefastos]

Interesting choice of quote. Was it deliberately chosen in relation to the one I posted above or coincidence?

A coincidence. I put here that quote as soon as I read it from the book the first time, and only when writing here was reminded of that last quotation of yours.

Jung states the importance of humility and attempts to act in such a manner, but ends up raving like a megalomaniac in the following chapter. However, in the last few paragraphs of the final chapter of ‘Liber Secundus’ after Jung has realised his mistake, Jung categorically states that he and his god are not identical. And, ultimately, Psychological Types - published a few years after work stopped on The Red Book - god is described as an abstraction of the conscious ego.

I noticed the same. Of course, it is important part of such an uncensored process to be able to rave, but he really didn't seem to come to actually "unite the opposites" (his own words) in these things as much as still channel the arrogant spirit of the authorized powers of the time: contemporary theology and science. In these ending chapters of the Red Book, he shows contempt towards both magic, Satan, and spirits of the earth. True, he ends up taking unto himself some of their vital spirit, and even turns to praise the virtues of Philemon the Magician; but in such a hasty, fanatical way that is almost as far from true veneration.

When I started reading the Red Book, I thought that Jung was far too modest in his reluctance to give it to other people to read, since it seems to be so much more lofty and deep than any other such work than we might come across in, say, Left Hand Path writings. But now I see also the other side. The process in the Red Book is not ready, it shows his weak spots undiluted and unhidden, and is thus embarrassing even while it is ingenious.

It’s also at this point that Jung begins to alter what was recorded in the Black Books – what was previously rendered as his “soul” is changed into his “god”.

I am glad that in the footnotes are given some omissions from the Black Books to the Red, for the original seem to be more accurate and vital.

[Jiva]

Hrm, I agree that Jung was indeed scrambling to solve the predicament he had ended up in because he genuinely feared going insane – a kind of accidental psychological suicide (“I am my own priest and congregation, judge and judged, God and human sacrifice”). But I’m not sure about the Black Books being more accurate and vital in comparison to The Red Book. Certainly, they are a more accurate recording of his immediate experiences, but then who has not initially misinterpreted a dream only to learn its true significance later. In any case, I think the fact that this desperation is contained in The Red Book is a testament to the humility he eventually learned. He could have, after all, adapted what was recorded in the Black Books to make his learning process appear effortless and sublime. Yet this would basically mean lying to himself.

[Nefastos]

But I’m not sure about the Black Books being more accurate and vital in comparison to The Red Book. Certainly, they are a more accurate recording of his immediate experiences, but then who has not initially misinterpreted a dream only to learn its true significance later.

I am not familiar with the Black Books at large, I can only say that whenever in the footnotes there comes up a note like "in the Black Books this passage originally goes like x", the x-way seems - for me - to be more vital and deep. Since I remembered how I accidentally started diluting my own writing when I was at the first time editing Discordamelior & Necrosophia, the problem seemed somewhat similar. Luckily I very soon noticed what I was doing, and stopped.

[Heith]

“I want to understand you,
I study your obscure language.”
― Alexander Pushkin

[Jiva]

I am not familiar with the Black Books at large...

I think only a handful of people are, at most. As I understand it, they're going to be published in facsimile sometime next year, which is an interesting decision. Basically, I wonder if there are original drawings and so on contained in those pages.