Who are they?
Do or do they not suffer, and why so?
And the fool's question: is there a moment where you are close but just have to understand to twitch yourself out of the miserable suffering to find the attainment? I mean gaining very reliable access to manas is something we could call an enlightenment, but some of the stories of enlightenment are kind of sudden, twitch like, lacking a better expression for now, marking perhaps the turn from the area of pupils and adepts towards adepts as nirvanees. Thoughts?