Etiology of disorders and diseases - an esoteric perspective

Putting together ones life with the modern world.
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Soror O
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Re: Etiology of disorders and diseases - an esoteric perspective

Post by Soror O »

Segel wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:25 pm What do you think of the term "emotional exhaustion", these symptoms are common in those who work as careworkers ..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_exhaustion

Can careworkers have the same problem as what we may have in prayer that we think we know what is best for someone else even though we can not really know it?
Yes, so called compassion fatique and secondary traumatization are likely occurances among careworkers and I believe it is very crucial to contemplate and implement one's boundaries - and strive to be conscious of one's motives for "helping" other people. Every "good person" and a caretaker has a shadow side. You can "heal" "the sick", so that you wouldn't have to confront the sickness within. You can fend for the weak in order to gain sense of control and personal power. You can be a benefactor so that everybody around you praises your unselfishness and goodness - and you can manipulate people behind this mask. I'm myself beware of "good people", not the average, unperfect fools (that we all are).
Smaragd wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:05 pm On the above mentioned article there was a mention of a similar problem to careworkers emotional exhaustion, which appeared on a physical level. Olcott was ordered not to heal people anymore.
In October, he awoke to find his left forefinger devoid of any feeling. His healing cures now required more energy than previously and the number of failures increased. On instructions from his spiritual ‘teacher’ Olcott was ordered to suspend all healing.

This is very interesting! I have for years contemplated on the mythos of Chiron, the wounded healer. To heal, one must have the wound. But it is a special wound, not to be mixed with any other personal shortcoming or trauma. I don't know what was up with Olcott's finger - like you and Nefastos stated, healing is a subbtle, energetic phenomena. You mentioned being vampirized - which is also a relevant concept in this context. I'd say that being exposed energies of sickness uncovers quickly one's own leakages and un-even currents. So one must find herself "sick" over and over again - to really be able to heal. In this sphere of manifestation, we can never be wholly wholesome and "cured". The fabric of the reality torns the particles apart, and torns the flesh of our being.
Nefastos wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:24 am
Soror O wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:52 pmI just cannot keep a neutral and nice mood in a world of violence and child molestation, that's all.

This is one of the most important points in the whole philosophy of the Star of Azazel, Satanism on the path of ascension. Once again I come back to those strikingly good Buddhist metaphors: one cannot remain in a burning house, or a field of red-hot iron. There is something terribly wrong in the world, and we must try our utmost to find and remove that splinter in God's eye or spine or heart. Of course, such a process is also quite a (tragi-)comical one, since the attempt is as large as the world, and there are no actual villains to hunt, but the problem is much deeper than that.

God is (in the) child molestation and genocide - this never stops being horrifying. I have stood before Him in a terrible awe before... It is just so different to work with these kind of things in practice. The house is burning, yet it is not. One cannot really heal anything out of resistance. But how not to resist child molestation, genocide, this living hell? For me, it is not easy. To accept the unacceptalble. It is the most subtle thing there is, it is the thinnest line there is, it is literally vaporating in the air, continuosly. But I myself, I'm not vaporating, I'm heavy and thick. And to embody something this thin and airy is reminding me now(!) of my childhood "sensory attacks" - although I didn't sense anything (more than slight nausea)... but the experience was that I was a paradox, the tiny of the tinyest and infinite at the same time. So to work in a paradox, to live as a paradox. It is kind of funny, deadly and exhausting.
Nefastos wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:24 am
I hope there will come the day (most likely out of this body) when I understand that violence & child molestation are karmic necessities that do not make the whole existence a hell, but I'm not holding my breath.

I regard every aspect of my own lifestory as a karmic necessity, and I do trust the other souls that they too now what they are doing. I just get sometimes confused about what is the role I'm to play in others lives. But it is up to them, as much it is up to me. Working with kids adds up to this confusion, because as an adult I'm expected to solve their problems which pretty soon lures me into the dualistic mindset. I have pondered a lot of education, the art of up-bringing (kasvatus). And I'd like to think that in up-bringing and education I work with souls, I try to remind them of themselves. But to regard children mere souls, pretty soon makes one a crappy teacher, a mother, an educator. Again... a thin line.
Nefastos wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:24 am
But maybe I've taken one step in recent years when noticing how unable people seem to be taking notice unless they are factually suffering themselves. I think humanity as species is so primitive still that we just barely understand that there is something actually going on that is not just my own perception, but there are actual beings out there who have actual deep feelings. If empathy would be applied to our planet, it would shake it to the core; but it seems that only way to wake up that empathy is... suffering. And this is another paradox of Satanism. In order to lessen suffering, people must be allowed to suffer. (Also helps one to understand Saturn-Satan's aspect of time cycles: this will necessarily take also a huge amount of time, not just work. Too hastily applied suffering will just break one down and make a person even more selfish and cruel.)
This is what I meant when I, in a one Lucifer lodge meeting discussing karma, asked a controversial question: is relieving suffering ethically right? I regard that Boddhisattvas made a promise to incarnate. They didn't made a promise to work in humanitarian aid. How do one knows the house is burning? It is by the burns of our own flesh. Relieving suffering is ethically right, but one ought to ask such questions anyway. Because there is subtle and hidden layers to suffering and to the act of redeeming others.
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.
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Re: Etiology of disorders and diseases - an esoteric perspective

Post by Utthavat »


Yesterday I came across this research published last year by New Scientist, saying, that cancer cells steal energy-generating parts from immune cells. I was also reading Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine part I, and I found that as she was teaching about an occult term "fiery lives", she mentioned a theory from a French chemist Louis Pasteur.


https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... une-cells/
The Secret Doctrine wrote:

It might be supposed that these "fiery lives" and the microbes of science are identical. This is not true. The "fiery lives" are the seventh and highest subdivision of the plane of matter, and correspond in the individual with the One Life of the Universe, though only on that plane. The microbes of science are the first and lowest sub-division on the second plane -- that of material prana (or life). The physical body of man undergoes a complete change of structure every seven years, and its destruction and preservation are due to the alternate function of the fiery lives as "destroyers" and "builders." They are "builders" by sacrificing themselves in the form of vitality to restrain the destructive influence of the microbes, and, by supplying the microbes with what is necessary, they compel them under that restraint to build up the material body and its cells. They are "destroyers" also when that restraint is removed and the microbes, unsupplied with vital constructive energy, are left to run riot as destructive agents. Thus, during the first half of a man's life (the first five periods of seven years each) the "fiery lives" are indirectly engaged in the process of building up man's material body; life is on the ascending scale, and the force is used in construction and increase. After this period is passed the age of retrogression commences, and, the work of the "fiery lives" exhausting their strength, the work of destruction and decrease also commences. An analogy between cosmic events in the descent of spirit into matter for the first half of a manvantara (planetary as human) and its ascent at the expense of matter in the second half, may here be traced. These considerations have to do solely with the plane of matter, but the restraining influence of the "fiery lives" on the lowest sub-division of the second plane -- the microbes -- is confirmed by the fact mentioned in the foot-note on Pasteur (vide supra) that the cells of the organs, when they do not find sufficient oxygen for themselves, adapt themselves to that condition and form ferments, which, by absorbing oxygen from substances coming in contact with them, ruin the latter. Thus the process is commenced by one cell robbing its neighbour of the source of its vitality when the supply is insufficient; and the ruin so commenced steadily progresses.

Could it be that modern science proved Pasteur and Blavatsky right about this theory 133 years after publishing of Secret Doctrine? Since I'm not educated in chemistry, I don't know if all the dots connect for the Pasteur's theory to be proven right, if the two subject are too far away since Blavatsky was writing about microbes and New Scientist about cancer cells, or if this theory from Pasteur has been proved by modern or older science before, but it was an interesting find.

Any thoughts on this matter, study or the quote in general?
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Re: Etiology of disorders and diseases - an esoteric perspective

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Utthavat wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:15 am
Could it be that modern science proved Pasteur and Blavatsky right about this theory 133 years after publishing of Secret Doctrine?
It sounds like Blavatsky is referencing not a mere theory but perhaps a research paper of Pasteur? Nevertheless, an interesting quote. Makes me think of keeping inner vitality in all facets of life in order to keep the ascension to spirit half of our lives as graceful as possible, while the forementioned processes of vitality loss and destruction takes place. But I guess ascension may take quite unexpected turns so one can try and keep the balance, plan things well etc. yet still have quite some surprises ahead. Keeping inner vitality in the physical body by practising that side with all the intellectual, emotional sides and all the other bodies could be seen largely as finding inner vitality in related areas, while the physical movements are mere manifesting correspondences to the inner practice. Personally I try to avoid the idea of trying to preserve the vitality in the physical body, because it is quite grotesque given that it slows down ascension, and therefore it could be seen prolonging suffering. I rather try and aim to find the forementioned balance, in the grace of which the work of a boddhisattva could be commenced in: while a moderate preserving of vitality in the physical body is aimed, it allows the lifes work of an occultist to come in to flower to help others, while hopefully also making the bodily suffering of the occultist a bit less steep and manageable.

Observing this idea of practising the human composition with great balance, the etiology of diseases and disorders seem like symptoms of imbalances or unsearched and disregarded vitalities in these inner bodies.

I've also felt like things are "wrong" when I have failed to bring some area of my life close enough to the holistic occult strive, longing for things to connect also within the exoteric. For this reason the balance and vitality alone has not seemed enough for me personally, but there's this Sun "aspect" making things even more complicated. I guess such exoteric needs could very well be taken to the other far end, making the demands of the Sun or demands of other things also a sickness.
Utthavat / Secret Doctrine wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:15 am "the cells of the organs, when they do not find sufficient oxygen for themselves, adapt themselves to that condition and form ferments, which, by absorbing oxygen from substances coming in contact with them, ruin the latter. Thus the process is commenced by one cell robbing its neighbour of the source of its vitality when the supply is insufficient; and the ruin so commenced steadily progresses."
For science enthusiasts, I found this site which seems to describe this thing. What is here called vitality, the site seems to call FTP: https://realonomics.net/how-are-cells-a ... of-oxygen/
What happens when there is no ATP?

“What would happen if we did not have ATP.” The short simple answer is we would die. Without ATP cells wouldn’t have their “energy currency” and would die. All living things are made of cells and as their cells die the organism dies.
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Re: Etiology of disorders and diseases - an esoteric perspective

Post by Utthavat »

Smaragd wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:07 am
Utthavat wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:15 am
Could it be that modern science proved Pasteur and Blavatsky right about this theory 133 years after publishing of Secret Doctrine?
It sounds like Blavatsky is referencing not a mere theory but perhaps a research paper of Pasteur?
Utthavat / Secret Doctrine wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:15 am "the cells of the organs, when they do not find sufficient oxygen for themselves, adapt themselves to that condition and form ferments, which, by absorbing oxygen from substances coming in contact with them, ruin the latter. Thus the process is commenced by one cell robbing its neighbour of the source of its vitality when the supply is insufficient; and the ruin so commenced steadily progresses."
For science enthusiasts, I found this site which seems to describe this thing. What is here called vitality, the site seems to call FTP: https://realonomics.net/how-are-cells-a ... of-oxygen/
What happens when there is no ATP?

“What would happen if we did not have ATP.” The short simple answer is we would die. Without ATP cells wouldn’t have their “energy currency” and would die. All living things are made of cells and as their cells die the organism dies.

Yes, I got that idea too that it would be a research, but I didn't go into his research apart from the Secret Doctrine to find out more.

Thanks for the link to the site teaching about ATP. The phenomena regarding ATP was explained nicely and in a way that suits beginners in biology, like I am.

Since chemistry seems to have evolved a lot from 1888, its interesting to try to see that how these older and newer theories/research meet, and do they meet in a way that the new is a deeper dive into the foundations of old, or that has there been some findings that crumble the older theories/research.

From what I understood, Blavatsky herself thought chemistry as one of the branches of science that would be of the utmost importance in the occultism of the future (of her time).

Does this give any thoughts on the forum? If they are connected, Occultism and Chemistry, how do their relationship seem to occur in good, bad or neutral way in the time and place we live in now?
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Re: Etiology of disorders and diseases - an esoteric perspective

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Utthavat wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:12 pm
Since chemistry seems to have evolved a lot from 1888, its interesting to try to see that how these older and newer theories/research meet, and do they meet in a way that the new is a deeper dive into the foundations of old, or that has there been some findings that crumble the older theories/research.
It certainly is, and it may even be that the crumbling down is occasionally an illusion of too much of linear thinking. In some cases it seems like natural sciences approach keeps it rolling in circles to a degree. A theory may be disregarded as foolishness of the old days, but after fifty or even hundred years it may become somewhat viable again. As an example, I've understood that Einstein's work with aether was disregarded for a long time but it gained again some viability later on. Similarly the kama manasic divisioning may fool itself by making so specific terminology that the forest is no more seen from the trees. This relates to the problem of using singular aspects with too great an emphasis so that the mind will stay imprisoned and unaware of the hologrammatic nature of reality. But still, all the properly earned glory and respect to the hard work of using kama manas rather than being lazy and stagnating in a state of pseudo oneness. Solve & coagula!
Utthavat wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:12 pm
From what I understood, Blavatsky herself thought chemistry as one of the branches of science that would be of the utmost importance in the occultism of the future (of her time).

Does this give any thoughts on the forum? If they are connected, Occultism and Chemistry, how do their relationship seem to occur in good, bad or neutral way in the time and place we live in now?
I wonder if physics has taken up some areas that would have been considered more of the area of chemistry in the 19th century? Anyway, the Wikipedia article on chemistry offers a good start for trying to answer the question: "In the scope of its subject, chemistry occupies an intermediate position between physics and biology. It is sometimes called the central science because it provides a foundation for understanding both basic and applied scientific disciplines at a fundamental level." I guess Blavatsky, with her aim to bridge the world of occultism with the scientific mindset of the West, was herself in a similar intermediate position where she attempted to bring the philosophy and metaphysics of ancient doctrines (corresponding to the natural law revealing science of physics) to the phenomena of, say, a medium having their plasma seep out of their sthula sharira (corresponding to biology). But this is just quite a loosely thrown hypothesis basing on how Blavatsky could be seen inspired by the role of chemistry amongst the sciences and its relevancy to what she was doing.

The chemical world is an intriguing area to work with if one finds their way to it naturally through an interest of somekind. For example, oil painting requires quite alot of knowledge of materials and their attributes and how they interact with each others, how solvents work and how mediums bind things together etc. In these substances a concrete natural world of processes is revealed, and seeing to their metaphorical language one may find oneself transported behind the substances, towards the essence of things. Chemistry turns in to alchemy. But this is just an individual perspective, a bit similar to the "play sets" of magnets some Rosicrucian orders of the 20th century have been known given to some of their followers to tinker with. I assume Blavatsky had thought more about bridging the ideas of occultism to the West best approached through the findings and approaches of chemistry. Matter as Maya really is a magic mirror from which the inner world can be reflected if one has the interpretative skills developed. From Blavatsky's Master's pen:
Koot Hoomi wrote:Matter we know to be eternal, i.e., having had no beginning (a) because matter is Nature herself (b) because that which cannot annihilate itself and is indestructible exists necessarily — and therefore it could not begin to be, nor can it cease to be (c) because the accumulated experience of countless ages, and that of exact science show to us matter (or nature) acting by her own peculiar energy, of which not an atom is ever in an absolute state of rest, and therefore it must have always existed, i.e., its materials ever changing form, combinations and properties, but its principles or elements being absolutely indestructible.
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Re: Etiology of disorders and diseases - an esoteric perspective

Post by Smaragd »

There is this profound simplicity to the causal links that I observe between diseases and karma, yet it is more complex than the point of view of superstitious simplicity which is unable to rise to the manasic wings and see for themselves. Even people who are to a degree open to the occult and open to their superstitious hunches might be totally unaware of the causal chains and unable to move beyond the casual worldview. A central term for me to open these things up is the causal body.
H.P.B.: The Key to Theosophy wrote:Speaking of Manas, the "causal body," we may call it -- when connecting it with the Buddhic radiance -- the "HIGHER EGO".
H.P.B.: Collected Writings vol. X wrote:The third is the true Ego, called in the East, by a name meaning “causal body” but which in the trans-Himalayan schools is always called the “Karmic body,” which is the same. For Karma or action is the cause which produces incessant rebirths or “reincarnations.” It is not the Monad, nor is it Manas proper; but is, in a way, indissolubly connected with, and a compound of the Monad and Manas in Devachan.
To me it seems obvious that when we are dealing with the complexity of the human instrument and everyday challenges with such a powerful tool, there are karmic impressions that we make with every word and deed. These marks, or rather energetic tensions connected to the causal body, will give form to the abstract power reserves of linga sharira. And this form of energy does not only appear from the fine materiality to the coarse flesh and psychology of humans, but also the formation of the world and how we casually (yet truly magically) connect to other beings in the world as another day goes by on planet Earth.
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Re: Etiology of disorders and diseases - an esoteric perspective

Post by SanatKumara »

I have a "funny" situation going on at the moment, which propably suits into this topic.

I have been working pretty intensively and first i started to got pretty wild dreams, and now my ankles have swollen a little and knees are little sore. Propably my posture while meditating gives fine little spice into this soup. But it is pretty funny coincidence, since i have been meditating in the same posture for some time. Ofcourse sometimes injuries takes time, but still.

The dreams did calm down, hopefully legs will soon too.
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