Unconditional Love & the Misinterpretations

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Smaragd
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Unconditional Love & the Misinterpretations

Post by Smaragd »

We have already a topic on Agape, touching this idea, but I wanted to start a discussion solely to discern some basic problems regarding the idea of unconditional love emphasising more the practical point of view.

To start, it is fairly easy to see how far towards negative results, for everyones sake, the Jesus' example of turning the other cheek can lead. The main point of the example, cleaning the fanaticism and misinterpretation away, seems to be that by turning the other cheek one respects the freedom of choice - the human power (or humanity, if you will) - of the other. After all, there is no running away from it. People are free to do evil, but I can leave them be and show a different direction, and in doing so love their Human Will to follow or to stay. Here the unconditional love does not carry grudges, but gives way to the immense and eternal power for rebirth, for reincarnation, for ascension towards the pure Self and its occult wisdom.

It is quite easy, perhaps even common, to hold on to the interpretation of unconditional love, which is not able to draw lines, to say enough is enough, to love with boundaries etc. How do you discern the difference between unconditional love and loving with boundaries? To what extent can boundaries be seen as conditions for love?

Depending on one's temperament, boundaries can be simple but when it comes to the understandable shortcomings of others they become more difficult especially within a serious strive for unconditional love.
"Would to God that all the Lords people were Prophets"
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Nefastos
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Re: Unconditional Love & the Misinterpretations

Post by Nefastos »

We might be able to depict these as the Motherly and Fatherly aspects of universal love. And like all gender archetypes, these too swap their polarities every now and then, and cannot ever be absolutely separated.

Father: Making borders. In Western esotericism: the Right Hand Path. In Jewish esotericism: the Left Hand Path (Gevurah or Judgment). In Christian esotericism: the trinity aspect of the Father. Tantric Shiva.
Mother: Without borders. In Western esotericism: the Left Hand Path. In Jewish esotericism: the Right Hand Path (Chesed or Mercy). In Christian esotericism: the trinity aspect of the Holy Ghost. Tantric Shakti.

Letting everyone do everything is evil also, and exactly the kind of evil of which I hold God to be responsible. To see bad things happen and letting them happen is making oneself guilty of the same crime. Yet it demands extremely nuanced, trained understanding to see even remotely well when and how and if one should interfere. Finding this out is often a life-long process, but the most important thing is one's willingness to dynamically seek that answer, in theory and practice. Trying well but making mistakes one way or the other is human and always pardonable; closing one's eyes in order not to become involved is that "most terrible sin of cowardice" (Bulgakov).

Naturally there are and should be also some temperamental differences, but working with these should be logical and neutral. All too often one is willing to forgive to those one likes and reserving the strictest judgment to those one does not personally like. It cannot be like that, and it should not be reversal of that either, but everything should get equal judgments. How these are spoken out can and should vary, though: it is often advisable to be more precise with one's closest people who already (should) know that one supports them personally, and more empathic (even in border-making and necessary judgment) when discussing with those not as close.

Ervast gave a very important description of Satan and the master adept at their Satanic initiation: these entities might outward seem cold and severe, but inside they are still filled with love and understanding. I think at least those people who have children of their own most likely know how one can both be filled with love and wishing the best for someone, and still – and even because of that – having to build immovable borders.

Needless to say, it will require much humility to be able to see where we should and where we should not put those borders. For example, fundamentalists claim that they are helping the others with their strict social demands, but actually they are just so filled with their own self-righteousness and hypocrisy that they can't see their own arrogant use of psycho- & sociological violence.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: Unconditional Love & the Misinterpretations

Post by Kavi »

Smaragd wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:46 pm We have already a topic on Agape, touching this idea, but I wanted to start a discussion solely to discern some basic problems regarding the idea of unconditional love emphasising more the practical point of view.

To start, it is fairly easy to see how far towards negative results, for everyones sake, the Jesus' example of turning the other cheek can lead. The main point of the example, cleaning the fanaticism and misinterpretation away, seems to be that by turning the other cheek one respects the freedom of choice - the human power (or humanity, if you will) - of the other. After all, there is no running away from it. People are free to do evil, but I can leave them be and show a different direction, and in doing so love their Human Will to follow or to stay. Here the unconditional love does not carry grudges, but gives way to the immense and eternal power for rebirth, for reincarnation, for ascension towards the pure Self and its occult wisdom.
I have viewed "the turning the other cheek" as the most active defiancy and to showcase the power and its effect. Person or any actor that is hitting the other cheek or even taking the clothes leaving the other bare naked is a way to awaken if not the acting participant - at least people witnessing an injustice taking place.
It could raise suspicious questions why it must be like this?

Why the authority of Rome (incl. any other produced power-relation wife, slave, forced labor) that is suppose to govern in all its wisdom is behaving like a petty thief or a vile mugger without any ethics or faith?
You expect the right-handed back-slap on your cheek, yet afterwards you offer the side which has to be slapped with impure hand.
What kind of morally sound person would hit with dirty hand to showcase that the subordinated person has wronged?
You are collecting a debt and the person in debt should be made naked in the process, is it in anyway reasonable?
As it is visible here, there are taboos presented as an aftermath - filthy hand, nakedness etc. Taboos that might have been and still are somewhat taboos in parts of Middle-east.
I'll carry these items an extra mile, what are you going to do now? Are you weak or something?
I think "turn the other cheek" is a trap to rob the honor from person in higher position. Why oppose something much powerful with force and violence when you can use its own momentum and blindness to reveal - its arrogant feeling of empty self-righteousness and still attain sound ethics?

I know this is a more mundane interpretation commonly associated with nonviolent resistance, but I think there is clear legalistic connotations in these verses to retaliation laws and Christ is offering a third way.
I know these verses are used and still being used as a way to forgive everyone for everything and in exchange also people are promising to jump down the well, because one ought not to resist evil but then secretly in bitterness the same people feel grudge and experience martyrdom syndrome, but that is not Agape at least in my definition and definitely not martyrdom either.
It's possible to view these verses purely on spiritual level but I have found this interpretation more wholesome that I can attune myself and understand also in esoteric manner.
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