I see world as...

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
Kenazis
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Re: I see world as...

Post by Kenazis »

Kavi wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:02 pm My perception is rhizomatic - it extends within and outside. We are more than we are.
Bodies extending and affects and emotions having effects on us, perceptions affecting us. We are trying to have an effect on others, on things and so on.
Maybe this is psychotic way to express it but sometimes it's difficult to pinpoint where world and I begin and end. Maybe in schizophrenia the opposite is true?

I don't know how to argue and I am not gonna get into apologetic, but it's somehow I have experienced or felt life and worlds.
It's a bit shy nod for subjective thinking and relativism(?) but I feel there are different experiences and therefore worlds.

Small comment:
it extends within and outside.
Yet I think it's also a problem because if we view world as extension of our self and don't understand how it might have it's own will and self-perception, we'll get quite in trouble. It's complicated topic. I have to think about this more.
Took couple of minutes to remember what that starting quote of yours was, but it came to me eventually.

I think the human composition presented by Lauri Rauhala is very good. He argued that human is constructed from physical, mental and situational parts that are unity. (I am not sure what are those English words precisely, but in Finnish they are fyysinen, tajunnallinen ja situationaalinen). Situationality is everything that we are in contact with and what affect us. To see situationality as equal part of human as physical body and consciousness/mind, gives answer to many questions and brings important things with it (like responsibility of others because they are part of your situation).
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Smaragd
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Re: I see world as...

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Kenazis wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:42 am Situationality is everything that we are in contact with and what affect us. To see situationality as equal part of human as physical body and consciousness/mind, gives answer to many questions and brings important things with it (like responsibility of others because they are part of your situation).
This division seems really practical in this sense. In addition to that, I'm keen thinking the physical, bodily realities are sort of instrumental realities within the limited nature of situationality. In other words, Rauhala's presentation of human composition could be seen differentiating and making distinctive acknowledgments (working down through the lower triad), while the other perspective is a point of view to integrate realities and thus working back towards the higher triad. From abstraction to specific and back again.
Kenazis wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:48 pm different people possibly see world being primarily made of thought, love (feelings), physics (body & its sensations), will (activity of centered dynamism) or just pure energy.
This has been different in various phases of my life as there's been quite a lot of transformation. At the moment an amalgamation of thought and will seems to be emphasised in my way of seeing the world. There is definitive gnostic distance to the world, where the phantoms of maya seem uninteresting and I'd rather let them just float by. This is the primacy of thought in my view of the world. But it is automated to a degree that it could be seen more of a second primary as the challenges of will are much more visible and definitive of my experience of reality as it is now. This means that I kind of see the inspiration of the Master more clearly within the struggle of will, through which manas and buddhi also shines forth. Although I work with thought and feelings alot, and am inspired by them while having alot to struggle within these areas too, the primary focus seems to be that of finding and refining the connection to the black globe-like center-circumference (edit: there is no center visible looking in to this through a vision, rather the globe as a whole is the core and central point here) within oneself, a Black Shrine of sorts. "Activity of centered dynamism" is a good way to describe it as the dynamism is between this shrine in the core of Self, and the outer reality. This is not to be confused with the Red dynamism, although there also it could be said the challenge is to keep one's center in all the fiery dynamism. But I might be wrong here and would be interested hearing perspectives of those who see themselves having a Red temperament.
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Seferoth
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Re: I see world as...

Post by Seferoth »

Paradoxal. Utterly beautiful yet one of the ugliest things in the universe. Good and evil, perfect and imperfect. Creation of a flawed god.
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LunaticSun
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Re: I see world as...

Post by LunaticSun »

HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII xDDD (actually, I greatly apologise for disrupting your atmosphere with such cheerful tones, but I'm here to do it and share as much jolly and happiness as I can)

I haven't been here for quite a while. We're having war rn, as far as you may know from the news lmao. (and in fact it is horrible. But!)
But must i say... I have never felt that many emotions before as i do now (both good and honourable, and dark, 'beasty', but still just) , and haven't been as 'one' with myself as now.
But let me write it all in an orderly manner.
1 - the perception of the world definitely differs depending on HOW you look at it.
2 - the 'you' differs depending on HOW you live with it.
When I first came here with nothing but ashes, I sought dark knowledge, power over the elements, all gibberish stuff one may call it, but it all circulated around my ego.
Then I realised, finally, that I was not happy. With any of these wishes. They were giving suffering to me and daydreams and even more isolation - and nothing more. I finally saw that I had to do small, but realistic, materialistic, steps to make myself happy and stronk :3

I was still very sensitive to the outer world, to any sort of 'injury' I'd get when contacting reality - disappointments, misunderstandings, non-mutual love. And in this bitter state I wrote myself 12 rules, which I reminded myself of by reading through them from time to time. The aim of those rules was to separate oneself from longing for others all the time, from effect of all disappointments and failures. one of them basically stated "be ready for disappointment, consider this to be a gist of this game. you are BOUND to fail and be disappointed. But there is one thing you can do - just get up every time you fall, and stop being surprised like a fool every time something goes against your expectations".

I also stopped listening to the music I wanted to listen to. You know, when you are sad you want to listen to the music that reflects this sadness. But no! Listen to something else instead, or just go, breathe deeply, enjoy osmething visually instead if you want. But don't succumb to music that has sad tones when you are sad. It is pleasing, yes, but it only harms.

Eventually I learnt to be apart from these affects - I can enjoy music, but I don't see it affecting my mood anymore. Because one can remind oneself that their mind is their own forstress, and they choose themselves what they want to let in or out, and what they don't. Including both - outer world guests and the inner world guests, like thoughts. A blissfull indifference might have a rotten tone to it. And it might startle you to feel that when you are alone in the forest - it breathes with the same indifferent infinite emptiness that is also timeless, unlike your own brisk human existence.
In this case - try whistling xD and you might summon a flock of birds who will whistle along. And all of you have a grain of that emptiness which might startle weak human nature and bend it to apathy and melancholy. but there is also the whistling, the thin ray of light. there are Values, even though some of us might've lost any hope for a human to regain them by now.

But there are! As bright and tender as always, among the indifferent emptiness of peaceful God and the cynicism, the devilworshipping deeds that are darkness, there it flows - the strength, the happiness, the light! >:3

I wish you all a happy time!) live your lives and enjoy them, learn to enjoy them and to make it better with your own hands, and you will find 'em wings afterwards x3
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Nefastos
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Re: I see world as...

Post by Nefastos »

Hi LunaticSun! Your message sounds a bit like it might have been written under the influence of a mind-altering substance, but I definitely agree with you.
LunaticSun wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:07 pmI also stopped listening to the music I wanted to listen to. You know, when you are sad you want to listen to the music that reflects this sadness. But no! Listen to something else instead

This is the basic reason why I listen to my Italopop list every single day. I feel so horrible that listening to black, edged music would just result in those emotions escalating to self-harm. "Do it with a smile, or don't do it" has been a greater part of my reason to choose very light and even weird seeming hobbies, ways of self-expression, and modes to talk with people. These trick the brain and nervous system to live through a new day, and another, and another, and another, to create stalactites of positive accumulation even in total blackness. Because as an occultist you cannot give up, ever, no matter what happens: doing so would be to choose the downward path of despair and psychic (and most likely also physical) violence. So, the show must go on. And it must go on in a way of helping others.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Mars
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Re: I see world as...

Post by Mars »

I do this music thing too and choose more positive tunes time and time again instead of something that would make negative emotions stronger. Gabba Gabba Hey!
Darksoul2021
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Re: I see world as...

Post by Darksoul2021 »

As thought some do believe the world they live in is real when everything is energy an illusion created by the mind.
We move thru this world and basin everything upon our own experiences thoughts & feelings & perception of what is known as reality. What is reality ? What is real and what is not? personal perceptions the way you encounter & experience this reality and how you can alter it just by thought alone. How manybcould say there is something hiding behind the scenery controling everything.
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Re: I see world as...

Post by Kenazis »

Darksoul2021 wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:43 pm As thought some do believe the world they live in is real when everything is energy an illusion created by the mind.
We move thru this world and basin everything upon our own experiences thoughts & feelings & perception of what is known as reality. What is reality ? What is real and what is not? personal perceptions the way you encounter & experience this reality and how you can alter it just by thought alone. How manybcould say there is something hiding behind the scenery controling everything.
I have pretty much lost the idea what people mean when they say "nothing is real, all is illusion", "this world is not real" etc. There must alway be something real if we are speaking about unreal and vice versa. Do you say that energy isn't "real"? If world is illusion created by mind, what is the nature of the mind and nature of the illusions? What are their options? If we start thinking what is reality, what is real and what is not, the first and most important task is to clearly (as possible) to define the meanings of these three words (real, unreal, reality). We can alter some bits of reality with our thoughts and some not, some things are easy and some hard to alter.

This one I didn't quite understand "How manybcould say there is something hiding behind the scenery controling everything." Could you explain what you mean by this?
"We live for the woods and the moon and the night"
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Re: I see world as...

Post by Darksoul2021 »

It is confussing at first to hear as most people know you can become anyone and you can shape your world with just your thoughts...not everyone sees the world similar as the other.
That something us hidding behind this world refering to Maya
As this might sound strange but even if this was years ago at night i was starring at the sky at there was no sky only darkness rhe feeling of emptyness not like you would be used when looking at the night sky. When by day looking at during the summer there is something diffirent how the naturel world comes over to the manmade world. Something bigger then man itself....now the sun is shinning only 2 to 3 times i´ve noticed the sun which was burning at noon gave away a presence....
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Smaragd
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Re: I see world as...

Post by Smaragd »

Kenazis wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:44 am I have pretty much lost the idea what people mean when they say "nothing is real, all is illusion", "this world is not real" etc.
Darksoul2021 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:28 pm It is confussing at first to hear
Discerning from these, I agree the expression is kind of a wake up rhetoric aimed to shake the listener to the radical idea of everything having its footing and base on the spiritual realm. I amnreminded of the image of Atlas holding the globe. It is a thought that needs quite some leaps from the mind, that is or have tried to assimilate to the sensible world for most of its existence. But after realizing the all upholding role of the spirit realm how everything else is subordinate to it, and incorporating the realization to one's Work and being, the saying does seem to start showing its instrumental colours, as all the pain and suffering of the world are very real problems that need tending. Still, even after that it is crucial to remember the intended message behind the saying to remember the real spheres the hardships must be attended also at, in order to avoid stumbling on the same problem over and over again in differend forms. One must not be fooled by the forms and appearances the world presents to us, but neither one should underestimate the importance of form, reason, feelings and grounding.
"Would to God that all the Lords people were Prophets"
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