Esotericism and corporeality

Putting together ones life with the modern world.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Polyhymnia »

There is a weird phenomenon that I experience called L'Hermitte's Sign (it is associated with lesions of the spinal cord/brain stem that come from conditions such as multiple sclerosis, herniate discs, trauma to the area) and it feels as though electricity shoots up through my spine and up into my head. It is extremely bizarre, but a similar feeling happens to me when I do energy meditations that focus on my spine up to my crown. But there is a difference in the sense that the former is a very physical feeling, and the latter feel more like a ghost version of the physical, with the emphasis being on my nerves. It's probably the most noticeable place I experience the difference between the lînga sharîra and sthûla sharîra but with the same kind of energy: like two sides of the same coin.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Soror O
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Soror O »

Nefastos wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:27 pm
But for an occultist they are the nerve centers that are the most important parts of sthûla sharîra, since they are direct correspondences of the energetic gateways called chakras, or cakrams. The latter form one's linga sharîra. My mind will live on long after these muscles have all atrophied and turned to ash, but those energy portals will go through their changes and continue existing after such bodily death. Nerves are the primary way to learn to live beyond corporeal life. They reach for kâma rupa, the animating soul. Our modern culture is completely fascinated of building muscles (sthûla sharîra) and equally uninterested of trainings one's nerves with the best emotional characteristics (passion, patience, compassion, and other buddhic – which means lasting – qualities).
Yes, thank you for this extented presentation. In my work with traumatized children (and with myself) I try to re-establish the connection between sthûla sharîra and the other (higher) principles through breathwork exercises (so I value the respiratory muscles heh). It is both heart breaking and interesting to witness how, without a proper flow/breath, human beings are bound to be nearly mere animals.
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.
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Soror O
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Soror O »

Polyhymnia wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:14 pm There is a weird phenomenon that I experience called L'Hermitte's Sign (it is associated with lesions of the spinal cord/brain stem that come from conditions such as multiple sclerosis, herniate discs, trauma to the area) and it feels as though electricity shoots up through my spine and up into my head. It is extremely bizarre, but a similar feeling happens to me when I do energy meditations that focus on my spine up to my crown. But there is a difference in the sense that the former is a very physical feeling, and the latter feel more like a ghost version of the physical, with the emphasis being on my nerves. It's probably the most noticeable place I experience the difference between the lînga sharîra and sthûla sharîra but with the same kind of energy: like two sides of the same coin.
This is very interesting and reminded me of the other bodily ghost sensations (ghost pain, for example). In the ghost pain one can actually sense the missing limb being still there. I know that the materialistic medicine has it's own perspective to this phenomenom, but still I doubt that it is all that there is to it.
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Polyhymnia »

Soror O wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:15 am I doubt that it is all that there is to it.
I feel this way about almost all things. And I definitely wonder if phantom pain or things like l'hermitte's sign are just echoes of the existence of a part of the sthûla sharîra that dies but that still exists within the lînga sharîra. Both events involve the death of a physical component of the body, whether limb or nerve.

Speaking of l'hermitte's sign, it has been plaguing me all week, so every morning I start my day with a jolt of electricity through my spine. Definitely wakes me up :lol:
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Smaragd
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Smaragd »

Polyhymnia wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:19 pm And I definitely wonder if phantom pain or things like l'hermitte's sign are just echoes of the existence of a part of the sthûla sharîra that dies but that still exists within the lînga sharîra. Both events involve the death of a physical component of the body, whether limb or nerve.
This reminded me of a problem I've been pondering some weeks or months ago as I was introduced to a contemporary practitioner Alkistis Dimech through some podcasts, in one of which she talked about this concept of "occulted body", which she described to be the hidden things in the coarse body (I'm paraphrasing obviously). I understood her point being that the coarse body has not been given enough attention or value as the subtle body has been in central focus (sthūla sharîra & linga sharîra being the sanskrit terms for these two). For example, she pointed to some ancestral traumas remaining within ones own body and discovered through, for example, dance practice. So the problem I've been pondering is that whether or not the ancestral traumas actually live somewhere within the subtle body or is it both? I mean it is well known presentation in the occult traditions that everything that has ever happened have been imprinted in the akashic libraries (thus, nothing can be hidden from the inner master or as the exoteric religions tend to say "from God", but more relevant teaching in this context could be that the phenomena of the phantom limb is the experience of the subtle body through which we see how the form imprinted in the akasha gives form to the outer; subtle body remaining even when the outer form is amputated), and akasha, to my understanding, is approximately the same thing as aether and linga sharîra. Thus the ancestral spirits, with their past actions and happenings imprinted to the akasha, could be seen inhabit the subtle body, not so much the sthūla sharîra. Transgenerational traumas coded in in the genes could be seen mechanisms of the karmic functions of akasha. But the coarse body is to some degree relevant here atleast in the sense that it presents symbolically the subtle body (is in correspondence to it) for the outer senses and has a corresponding symbolical value to the Saturnian aspect of these karmic laws, being defined by the weight we have to carry the ancestral and other powers on our shoulders.

Contemporary occult viewpoints often suffer from increasingly fragmented understanding, which I personally share too and try to learn from. This is once again a reason why I greatly appreciate this forum and the Star of Azazel as I can express my understanding in this board and be given points of views that have reached greater holism where concepts draw others more thightly together, where as my application of buddhi in the search for knowledge has somewhat lacked in those particular moments and so far in the whole of my search.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
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Nefastos
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Nefastos »

Smaragd wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:31 pmthis concept of "occulted body", which she described to be the hidden things in the coarse body (I'm paraphrasing obviously). I understood her point being that the coarse body has not been given enough attention or value as the subtle body has been in central focus
[...]
Thus the ancestral spirits, with their past actions and happenings imprinted to the akasha, could be seen inhabit the subtle body, not so much the sthūla sharîra.

It is common to criticize this system of the subtle yet physical body, and one of the reasons is that it has not been understood correctly. I am not familiar with your source, but usually I hear similar from those practictioners who confuse the idea of linga sharîra with the non-physical astral. In that way, the whole concept of physical body has become demonized, and it is very good to criticize such a thought. (Not necessarily on the level of metaphysics, but in practice.)

The fault is largely of the theosophists, since this confusion already nested in their primary texts. Yet it should not be too hard not to bear grudge to that direction, since the theosophists also were the ones bringing the whole philosophy of human principles into attention. Before their time, extremely few mystics even understood that there is something in a human people besides the obvious physical-spiritual dichotomy, and the Platonic-Cartesian "reason" making its awkward cameo between these two.

When people who have positive body attitude – a thing I can respect, especially in the people who have suffered in their bodies – speak of all the great things that belong to the body, they speak of the things that actually pertain to linga sharîra. The problem is more often in misconceptions of terminology rather than in actual ideas of physicality. In my previous post I purposefully chose for sthûla sharîra symbols of numb but positive objects: garment, egg-shell, house. It is seldom wise to demonize even it, even though it is both a storehouse and the stage of our challenges. The real culprit is the past mistake of the ancestors, so carefully woven to the so-called individual karma. (But the karma is never completely individual...)
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Aquila
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Aquila »

Fra Smaragd's message helped me to remember some studies that might be interesting to think about in this context. University of Virginia has done some research on children who have told about memories of past life. Here's a link and an earlier paper published (which includes photos of the birthmarks and birthdefects, just to let you know as some might not want to see them). These might have something to do with the ideas of how various experiences of past life could affect the new body.


https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-stu ... ous-lives/
Some of the children have birthmarks and birth defects that correspond to wounds or other marks on the deceased person whose life is being remembered by the child.  In numerous cases, postmortem reports have confirmed these correspondences. 
PDF: Birthmarks and Birth Defects Corresponding to
Wounds on Deceased Persons
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Smaragd
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Smaragd »

Nefastos wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:38 pm
Smaragd wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:31 pmthis concept of "occulted body", which she described to be the hidden things in the coarse body (I'm paraphrasing obviously). I understood her point being that the coarse body has not been given enough attention or value as the subtle body has been in central focus
[...]
Thus the ancestral spirits, with their past actions and happenings imprinted to the akasha, could be seen inhabit the subtle body, not so much the sthūla sharîra.

It is common to criticize this system of the subtle yet physical body, and one of the reasons is that it has not been understood correctly. I am not familiar with your source, but usually I hear similar from those practictioners who confuse the idea of linga sharîra with the non-physical astral. In that way, the whole concept of physical body has become demonized, and it is very good to criticize such a thought. (Not necessarily on the level of metaphysics, but in practice.)

The fault is largely of the theosophists, since this confusion already nested in their primary texts. Yet it should not be too hard not to bear grudge to that direction, since the theosophists also were the ones bringing the whole philosophy of human principles into attention. Before their time, extremely few mystics even understood that there is something in a human people besides the obvious physical-spiritual dichotomy, and the Platonic-Cartesian "reason" making its awkward cameo between these two.

When people who have positive body attitude – a thing I can respect, especially in the people who have suffered in their bodies – speak of all the great things that belong to the body, they speak of the things that actually pertain to linga sharîra. The problem is more often in misconceptions of terminology rather than in actual ideas of physicality.
Aye, the problem is mostly on terminology and noting such things may seem to some like useless nerding. But it is very important to find the right terms to penetrate deeper in to their meanings and functions when pointing things to others and oneself. Also creating new vocabulary is important when the things in the dark has a tendency to remain too obscure.
Nefastos wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:38 pm The real culprit is the past mistake of the ancestors, so carefully woven to the so-called individual karma. (But the karma is never completely individual...)
These bodily examples, where even the smallest repetitive actions have their mark on the genetic code that is given to the offspring, are especially clear example of this on an ancestral stage. Not to mention all the obvious karma woven in the culture that we collectively bear.
Aquila wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:00 pm Fra Smaragd's message helped me to remember some studies that might be interesting to think about in this context. University of Virginia has done some research on children who have told about memories of past life. Here's a link and an earlier paper published (which includes photos of the birthmarks and birthdefects, just to let you know as some might not want to see them). These might have something to do with the ideas of how various experiences of past life could affect the new body.


https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-stu ... ous-lives/
Some of the children have birthmarks and birth defects that correspond to wounds or other marks on the deceased person whose life is being remembered by the child. In numerous cases, postmortem reports have confirmed these correspondences.
PDF: Birthmarks and Birth Defects Corresponding to
Wounds on Deceased Persons
Good reminder. I have watched a Netflix documentary series where the scientist introduced some of this research. I'm quite certain we are looking at the same phenomena here. Yesterday I spent time sunken deep in to the thought and experience of the sthula sharira portraying mostly a symbolical value, meaning that what ever we do, really happen on almost like a different plane, and all the "actual" bleeding wounds and spilled blood are only symbolical images of certain ideas or spirits colliding in different ways. I believe this is just another point of view one can take to get a better overall image of reality in contrast to pertaining to a single point of view. Thus it's not necessarily more real than the others. But linga sharira and sthula sharira are still, at least to some degree as 'bodies', happening on the same three dimensional realm. Makes me think of space, topological meanings etc.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
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Re: Esotericism and corporeality

Post by Gangleri »

Aquila's and Smarargd's messages reminded me how I as a child used to say that the birthmark in my right hand are the islands of Atlantis. Of course I had only heard the word Atlantis and knew nothing about the matter, but I was convinced that they actually are the islands.
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