World in Crisis

[Soror O]

Wow, this topic seems to cause a lot of attention.

Ave, I think I understand your point and you communicated it much more deeply than me in my rather grumpy and superficial (Probably infantile too?) comment. Actually I allow myself to be a little infantile or playful every now and then. When it comes to me, people should allow themselves much more weaknesses because if they are allowed, they are much easier to overcome. A forbidden weakness causes all kind of subconscious little cracks that will allow other potentially harmful impulses to act out. (Don’t you dare take this personally, I was just publicly speaking to myself here)
There are always misunderstandings in online communication and I really don’t think the critique was directed to you. Death is still a difficult topic, no matter how much we claim to know about it and as such, it is of course polarizing. That said, I like your comments and I find them very thoughtful, even if I don't agree on every point. Don't let those misunderstandings take your motivation to write away. Crisis is an oportunity for growth, right?
-
About the current corona crisis:

There is now a nationwide recommendation for “social distancing”. This means that for the next few weeks, I will only have contact to other people by phone or via the Internet. It should actually be a burden, but it is not. Surprisingly, I feel much closer to my fellow human beings when they are not physically close to me, which of course is paradoxical. Maybe compassion needs some sort of distance. I does not feel like a crisis yet, it is more of a release. I wait until the sun goes down and go out in the forest to run. Nobody does that, so there is no chance to meet other people. In a heavily settled country, it this is a rare luxury. I often thought about moving to a less crowded country.
Dammit, hopefully this does not sound misanthropic. It is not, it actually feels quite peaceful.

Thank you Cerastes for seeing me (which does not mean agreeing with me, as we all know. Most of the time, I don't even agree with myself!). Yes, I admit to those subconscious cracks ... And I admit to some poor communication on my behalf.

We have "social distancing" here also. Glad to hear that you've found beauty amidst it (I can relate).

[Beshiira]

I surely could have expressed myself better too. Ave, your posts definitely had part in that I wanted to write what I wrote, but I sincerely did mean that it wasn't aimed at anyone personally. I didn't get the impression from your writings that you are deep down indifferent towards human suffering. And I don't think that your stand on death even differs that much from how many others here feel, including myself. Your death-talk is welcome and perfectly okay, but I also wanted to share my viewpoint. Not least precisely because this is the forum of an esoteric, and especially a satanic society.

These forum posts are indeed simplifications pretty much always, many things are left unsaid and many nuances missed. And while I think that we should be careful how we talk about such profound and deeply personal matters, I can easily agree with a lot of what you said.

This great work of uniting the opposites - say for example life and death - is it merely metaphysical jargon which doesn't inevitably have any severe bearing in one's psyche?

This is kind of my point too. And a big point here is that it is a different process for everyone. As I've tried to ”live this true”, it has become more and more obvious how different people can be, and how differently we can experience the essentially same matters. I, too, equal life and death, and don't see how those could even be totally separated, or one held higher than the other. But the distinction is still there, it is relevant in some situations, and it is good to keep this in mind as well. I can agree, for example, that at least from a certain viewpoint our culture's relationship to death seems ”unhealthy”, and there is definitely a selfish undertone in the tendency to attempt to lengthen our lives as much as possible (though it might be understandable too). And at the same time, on a personal level, each death is still a tragedy in some way. The sacredness of death is something that everyone should realize themselves, in a way and in the time suitable for them. Exaggerated example: I wouldn't have the heart to tell a random dying person that ”it is good that you die now”. I don't think I have the right to do that. (And just to be clear – I haven't interpreted anyone here to think like that either.) Something similar is in how I react to the crisis at hand. One can argue that it is good for us, the other can have similarly strong counterarguments. And there is also a much bigger picture, the whole issue is so complex that I don't even know where to start.

My feelings are dissonant and changing. I don't really know what I should think, say or do. All I am certain of, is that all this makes me very sad. I just try to stay ”awake” and align my spiritual life with the changing times.

[Soror O]

I surely could have expressed myself better too. Ave, your posts definitely had part in that I wanted to write what I wrote, but I sincerely did mean that it wasn't aimed at anyone personally. I didn't get the impression from your writings that you are deep down indifferent towards human suffering. And I don't think that your stand on death even differs that much from how many others here feel, including myself. Your death-talk is welcome and perfectly okay, but I also wanted to share my viewpoint. Not least precisely because this is the forum of an esoteric, and especially a satanic society.

I was naive to think that such strong - and bluntly expressed  - views of mine wouldn't stir some serious questioning. Maybe they come across like: "Because I'm ok with death and dying, we should just let the word burn" -type of view. This is quite the opposite of how I really want to live my life. Also, my opinion about the "resistant and fearful energy" behind this corona-fight wasn't meant to have any political implications - such as we categorically should not use restrictions and social distancing.  

These forum posts are indeed simplifications pretty much always, many things are left unsaid and many nuances missed. And while I think that we should be careful how we talk about such profound and deeply personal matters, I can easily agree with a lot of what you said.

I totally agree. My posting style has been bit on the edge all the time, and this was an important lesson to think twice before posting. I wouln't share my thoughts on death too lightly in irl, and I shouldn't do it here. This doesn't mean that there should be taboos, I just ought to be more considerate.

This great work of uniting the opposites - say for example life and death - is it merely metaphysical jargon which doesn't inevitably have any severe bearing in one's psyche?

This is kind of my point too. And a big point here is that it is a different process for everyone. As I've tried to ”live this true”, it has become more and more obvious how different people can be, and how differently we can experience the essentially same matters. I, too, equal life and death, and don't see how those could even be totally separated, or one held higher than the other. But the distinction is still there, it is relevant in some situations, and it is good to keep this in mind as well. I can agree, for example, that at least from a certain viewpoint our culture's relationship to death seems ”unhealthy”, and there is definitely a selfish undertone in the tendency to attempt to lengthen our lives as much as possible (though it might be understandable too). And at the same time, on a personal level, each death is still a tragedy in some way. The sacredness of death is something that everyone should realize themselves, in a way and in the time suitable for them. Exaggerated example: I wouldn't have the heart to tell a random dying person that ”it is good that you die now”. I don't think I have the right to do that. (And just to be clear – I haven't interpreted anyone here to think like that either.) Something similar is in how I react to the crisis at hand. One can argue that it is good for us, the other can have similarly strong counterarguments. And there is also a much bigger picture, the whole issue is so complex that I don't even know where to start.

My feelings are dissonant and changing. I don't really know what I should think, say or do. All I am certain of, is that all this makes me very sad. I just try to stay ”awake” and align my spiritual life with the changing times.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject. I must admit that in a subconscious level, I was assuming everyone here to see death and dying like me. This was a childish and maybe egoistic fantasy of mine, and it's only natural that I'd be shaken out of it.

[obnoxion]

It can be surprising - sometimes even mildly shcking - to realize how differently our philosophies are lived in our daily lives. We stress different areas, and have different blind spots and weaknesses. We experience emotions differently. Our gifts lie elsewhere from each other. Our spiritual practices can be wildly different from each other.

In forum discussions, nuances are often lost. And we have sometimes too few clues at our disposal to interpret or express emotions. That is why we on this forum tend to favour a sort of "upper level" in our discussion. By upper I mean general. Our topics on personal practices and preferences aren't that involved. And we have tried to avoid topics on current affairs. When we have them, they tend to become channels for ventilation, and there is a collective need for that. So right when I saw the name of this topic, I was expecting that it will provide such channel.

I am happy to see how you have managed this discussion, and have found a way to understan each other on this challenging platform.

[Cerastes]

It can be surprising - sometimes even mildly shcking - to realize how differently our philosophies are lived in our daily lives. We stress different areas, and have different blind spots and weaknesses. We experience emotions differently. Our gifts lie elsewhere from each other. Our spiritual practices can be wildly different from each other.

In forum discussions, nuances are often lost. And we have sometimes too few clues at our disposal to interpret or express emotions. That is why we on this forum tend to favour a sort of "upper level" in our discussion. By upper I mean general. Our topics on personal practices and preferences aren't that involved. And we have tried to avoid topics on current affairs. When we have them, they tend to become channels for ventilation, and there is a collective need for that. So right when I saw the name of this topic, I was expecting that it will provide such channel.

I am happy to see how you have managed this discussion, and have found a way to understan each other on this challenging platform.

Yes, I think so too.

I even believe that these small misunderstandings or their realization are very important. How else are we supposed to find our blind spots? Of course we strive for harmony because it is more comfortable on an emotional level. But if we all agreed, there would be no learning processes. What is outside your own view makes discussions valuable.
I always think it's great when guests bring a different opinion, because homogeneity of opinions tends to become dogmatic from a certain point. This can be prevented better with external influences. A great advantage of this forum is that there are different views and different mentalities both within the SoA and from outside. Some of them certainly have to do with different cultural backgrounds. At Lodge Phanes, I keep sensing how different my communication is from Canadians and Finns, for example, and I think that's great. It's a bit of a mirror for unconscious schemes. Of course, this always requires a bit of tolerance and I'm not necessarily talking about tolerance for the other person, but also about tolerance towards your own weaknesses, which is often neglected in strongly idealistic views.

Okay, this has nothing to do with the topic. (Or does it?)

[obnoxion]

It can be surprising - sometimes even mildly shcking - to realize how differently our philosophies are lived in our daily lives. We stress different areas, and have different blind spots and weaknesses. We experience emotions differently. Our gifts lie elsewhere from each other. Our spiritual practices can be wildly different from each other.

In forum discussions, nuances are often lost. And we have sometimes too few clues at our disposal to interpret or express emotions. That is why we on this forum tend to favour a sort of "upper level" in our discussion. By upper I mean general. Our topics on personal practices and preferences aren't that involved. And we have tried to avoid topics on current affairs. When we have them, they tend to become channels for ventilation, and there is a collective need for that. So right when I saw the name of this topic, I was expecting that it will provide such channel.

I am happy to see how you have managed this discussion, and have found a way to understan each other on this challenging platform.

Yes, I think so too.

I even believe that these small misunderstandings or their realization are very important. How else are we supposed to find our blind spots? Of course we strive for harmony because it is more comfortable on an emotional level. But if we all agreed, there would be no learning processes. What is outside your own view makes discussions valuable.
I always think it's great when guests bring a different opinion, because homogeneity of opinions tends to become dogmatic from a certain point. This can be prevented better with external influences. A great advantage of this forum is that there are different views and different mentalities both within the SoA and from outside. Some of them certainly have to do with different cultural backgrounds. At Lodge Phanes, I keep sensing how different my communication is from Canadians and Finns, for example, and I think that's great. It's a bit of a mirror for unconscious schemes. Of course, this always requires a bit of tolerance and I'm not necessarily talking about tolerance for the other person, but also about tolerance towards your own weaknesses, which is often neglected in strongly idealistic views.

Okay, this has nothing to do with the topic. (Or does it?)

I think that was well said. And when these more personal or emotional topics are handled like you all have handled this topic, we can have more of them on the forum.

I am especially happy that this topic didn't go into politics, which is always a risk with current affairs. There is room for emotions on our forum (God knows I've been there, too). But one thing we can't have on this forum is politics - especially party politics.

[Angolmois]

Great discussion!

This is as interesting time to be alive as any. The positive aspect depends of us.

I truly believe it is the esoteric work of all aspirants all to the adepts themselves to keep the bridge between the supertemporal and temporal work intact and keep the soul of humanity and the rest of the creation alive, crisis or not.

[Aquila]

In the limited space that we have here in these forum posts it’s reasonable to concentrate on one or few points at a time. We all have other thoughts as well that are just not shown in our messages. But I try to concentrate on thoughts that have been posted, add something to them and hopefully someone else adds more to my limited ideas that I have posted online, whether I already understood that side of things before or not. It’s impossible to concentrate on personal feelings and thoughts behind the posts. It can be annoying because you might feel something like “do these people really think that I didn’t know that already or do they think I’m some cold asshole who’s totally incompassionate”. Every time I post something here I also have various ideas that might be opposing the thoughts I just posted or I might think that maybe I shouldn't have written like that, etc.

In my case writing here is also about overcoming the wrong idea that I should be perfect in my ways of communication (I have a strong tendency to demand too much from myself and I have tried to leave that behind. Otherwise I could not write anything here.) If our writings were perfect there would be no discussion. It's also about letting others fill in something that I might have left unsaid or didn't realize. I write thoughts that are inspired by ideas presented on this forum by other users. I don’t post much about my personal issues or feelings but I still am very uncertain of everything I write here. It’s just my thoughts which I wish to be of some kind of value. And I’m very happy to be in a place where I feel there are people capable of the discussion we are having here. If I seem to be picking up on something some of you have written here, it’s only because your thoughts made me think about something I had not thought of before. They gave me something new to think about. It might seem like I am saying something to you personally but it's only a response to what you wrote, not what is behind the computer screen. It’s definitely not about trying to correct anyone or make you look like something you are not. I'm not trying to prove you wrong even if I disagree with something you said. I might seem very argumentative but it's only for the sake of trying to be clear and on point, yet I acknowledge I have misunderstandings like anyone else. But it's only good to write even things that might be based on misunderstanding others as that gives others the possibility to make things clearer which then allows me to learn and gain perspective.

[Nefastos]

Different times – which most often means difficult times – shake our everyday mind in a way of proving. These are very important points in a progress, kind like checkpoints: we have possibility either to turn back or go further in. The same happens with occultists (What does my philosophy actually say about these things? Am I right in my convictions? Am I living up to my convictions, i.e. are they really mine?) & everyday people, who have the possibility to be awakened from some forms of the collective dreaming. But these are not necessary stirrings from a shared sleep, they can as well turn to be just shared turnings of the dreams phases. Society as a whole has some kind of a shock, and it reacts in a way it is able: as a collective. Most often these collective reactions are not very uplifting, wise, or esoteric; more often they have to do with petty survival instincts. (People hoarding toilet paper in order to escape the situation where people hoarding toilet paper would get all the toilet paper.)

My own approach is an amalgam of the following thoughts:

There is always a crisis somewhere.

Catastrophes might be inevitable but that's no reason to surrender to fatalism and indifference towards suffering.

This great work of uniting the opposites - say for example life and death - is it merely metaphysical jargon

Taken together, I mean that the idea to live as an esotericist is to "go through the crises" every day, and understand that even if I personally do not suffer some minute, it is certain that somebody else does. We should try to realize, to live practically, in an understanding that the world is in a process of perpetual burning, and yet we must remain cool in such a seemingly impossible situation. This is one part of the old practice method of "dying at every moment": understanding that these things are constant and consistent. I think that being a member of an occult brotherhood demands us a certain ability to remain standing no matter what happens in the exoteric world, because that is no longer the (only) ground on which we lean. Naturally no one is expected to have an A+ grade for that very demanding practice; we all can and will be exhausted, frightened, shocked, wounded in different ways. An occultist is not a robot, a human golem of feelingless attainment. And which is even more important, he must not become one of those who wait the fire with anticipation, who would rejoice when the bombs fall (figuratively or literally). Those two are just the different kinds of the same most profane coin: remain small in the RHP or the LHP exotericism, and fall to the temptations of either tribe mentality or cruel selfishness.

By this I mean not to say that both of these falls would not have their alluring influcene over me. Especially the latter is something I have to at least passively fight off almost every day, be it a corona outbreak situation or something else entirely. But should I give up to that urge, even an inch, I would become the basest of all the base creatures, unable to actually help anyone, which would also include myself in the path of ascension. For that path is, most of all, the path of universal compassion.

I am very thankful that everybody discussing here has been both open, polite, and willing to respect each other's thoughts. Let us continue with such an attitude exactly. Everyone's ability to be both balanced and open of their feelings is something rare & uniquely precious in the times like ours, and in any time.

[Kenazis]

I have seen already some minor changes in me because this pandemia-situation. This changes little or almost nothing in my daily routines. Also I don't have big fears of getting the virus, and I'm pretty sure I can handle it if get that (of course this can't be known). But the mindset and thoughts are different. I for example am focusing more on the few things I see important and not plan anything new, living more one day at a time and continuing what is unfinished and started. In a way this situation is both, a bit stressing and a bit relaxing for my mind. And even while the humans suffer from this in many ways, I hope something good will rise after this is over, and surely for the planet and the animals this have bring nothing but good things. As always, there are the negative and the positives sides on everything.