The Goal of Left-Hand Path - Union or Separation.

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
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LoopGodel
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The Goal of Left-Hand Path - Union or Separation.

Postby LoopGodel » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:39 pm

Greetings.

I recently came across the following quotes of Dr. Stephen Flowers, from his book, "Black Runa":

"The Right-Hand Path is the path of union with universal reality (God or Nature). When this union is completed, the individual self will be annihilated, the individual will become one with the divine or natural cosmic order. In this state the ego is destroyed, as "heaven" is entered or a nirvanic existence/non-existence is "attained". This is clearly the goal of all orthodox Judaic/Christian/Islamic or Buddhist sects".

He goes on to state the following about the Left-Hand Path:

"An eternal separation of the individual intelligence from the objective universe is sought in the Left-Hand Path".

To some extent, what he says reminds me of Krishna's teaching in the sublime Bhagavad Gita, namely that our individual self/spark/Atman/Jiva is simultaneously individual/discreet and one with, Krishna - as held by Vaishnavism. I am very interested to hear people's perspective on the above, as it relates to the strong emphasis on eventual Union & essential Oneness of all, despite appearances.

Thanks in advance,

LoopGodel.
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Nefastos
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Re: The Goal of Left-Hand Path - Union or Separation.

Postby Nefastos » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:32 pm

Thank you for the interesting question.

First, I have something to criticize from both of Dr. Flowers' definitions.

"The Right-Hand Path is the path of union with universal reality (God or Nature). When this union is completed, the individual self will be annihilated, the individual will become one with the divine or natural cosmic order. In this state the ego is destroyed, as "heaven" is entered or a nirvanic existence/non-existence is "attained".


Points that I underlined are problematic. Certainly, many Right Hand Path exoteric texts speak of the "death of the ego", & cetera, but what actually is meant by that "ego", and what is meant by "death", greatly vary according to even the exoterical schools of thought. The more esoterical the interpretation, the more esoterical & nuanced also become the meanings of these two words, until finally it can be said that the "ego" actually is not annihilated, since "death" is just fundamental transformation of our formerly false concept of the said ego.

"An eternal separation of the individual intelligence from the objective universe is sought in the Left-Hand Path".


Similarly here the underlined part is extremely problematic. What can even be meant, esoterically, by "eternity"? What is eternal? Only the absolute existence itself, for its every "life" – no matter how long in billions of years of time – will eventually collapse into cosmic night, to be radically transformed in its very essence. Believing into "eternal separateness" would be similar to Christian's eternal flames of hell: such a view of ego is so absurd and hits so many logical walls that it is mutilated soon after launch, much more so after an "eternity".

I think that the only sane esoterical viewpoint would be to, as you said, see both the Ego (with capital letter, to underline its separateness from our mundane pettiness) & the absolute Unity (monad) as principles or dimensions in microcosmic being of man.

In Argarizim's Cocytos (chapter XI) I quoted Blavatsky's co-disciple Subba Row about this particular subject, the possibility of egoic immortality and/or soul's death, viz. separation from the monad:

Argarizim wrote:"It is necessary to say a few words in this connection as regards the real nature of soul-death
and the ultimate fate of a black magician, to impress the teachings of this book on the mind
of the reader. The soul, as we have above explained, is an isolated drop in the ocean of
cosmic life. This current of cosmic life is but the light and the aura of the Logos. Besides the
Logos, there are innumerable other existences, both spiritual and astral, partaking of this life
and living in it. These beings have special affinities with particular emotions of the human
soul and particular characteristics of the human mind. They have of course a definite
individual existence of their own which lasts up to the end of the Manvantara. There are
three ways in which a soul may cease to retain its special individuality. Separated from its
Logos, which is, as it were, its source, it may not acquire a strong and abiding individuality
of its own, and may in course of time be reabsorbed into the current of Universal Life. This
is real soul-death. It may also place itself in rapport with a spiritual or elemental existence
by evoking it, and concentrating its attention and regard on it for purposes of black magic
and Tantric worship. In such a case it transfers its individuality to such existence and is
sucked up into it, as it were. In such a case the black magician lives in such a being, and as
such a being he continues 'til the end of the Manvantara... In some respects this amounts to
acquiring immortality in evil. But unlike the immortality of the Logos it does not go beyond
Manvantaric limits." (Subba Row: Comments on the Idyll of the White Lotus.)

Subba Row does not present any difference between these two death-leading paths, even though it is from the ethical, and thus buddhic, viewpoint of utmost necessity to distinguish that borderline between the human freedom of will and straightforward evil; the difference between choosing a half-truth and therefore also death for oneself, or the idealistic spreading of evil as vast as possible. Will the mind choose the “escape from the world” – but also of the experience of the Logosic unity – or “immortality in evil,” these are understandably the choices that are made on completely different levels. As Jung has said: “There are also quite a few who have been so buffeted by life, or who feel such a disgust for their own existence, that they far prefer absolute cessation to continuance.” This can, by the viewpoint of the lower psychology, be applied to the Pratyeka Left Hand Path, but not at all to that attainment of immortality in evil, which Éliphas Lévi mentioned in his letter [as given in the motto of Discordamelior's Dark Face chapter III].
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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LoopGodel
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Re: The Goal of Left-Hand Path - Union or Separation.

Postby LoopGodel » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:48 am

Thanks Frater Nafastos for your reply. As a neophyte on the LHP, I was interested to understand how others perceived these statements & your words echo my thoughts, as well as deepen my understanding.

Regarding his statement about Christianity etc teaching the ultimate annihilation of the soul into an undifferentiated Unity, this makes little sense to me even on an exoteric level. If one was to ask most catholic, protestant, orthodox or evangelical Christians how they envision their existence in Heaven, it would generally be as individuals - praising God, co-creating new worlds etc - enjoying intimate communion with God, where there is no suffering or pain. Putting Christianity & Judaism into the same group as Buddhism and saying they teach the ultimate annihilation of the individual spirit/soul, is just plain wrong, based on my 30 years experience with Abrahamic monotheism. I cannot say for sure, but it suggests the writer may have an unbalanced view of the RHP.

As for his statement about the Left-Hand Path being ultimately about eternal separation from the One, the Unity behind the multiplicity, I couldn't think of anything worse! By exploring the LHP in earnest, I am seeking to mature as an individual and go wherever the quest for Truth takes me. I feel increasingly convinced that it is into the Night, the Dark, the road less travelled, that I must now go. If I thought I was going to end up as some eternal, isolate intelligence that stands ontologically separate from the rest of the Cosmos/Unity, I would not travel it.

Correct me if I am wrong. Am I right in seeing the Left-Hand Path as a powerful way for me to balance Light & Dark, both within me and in my understanding of the Divine, the Unity, the Ground of Being?

Right now I would not call myself a Satanist but rather a Gnostic & de facto heretic, in relation to Abrahamic monotheistic orthodoxy. My working hypothesis is that the Jehovah character in the Bible is a despotic, Demiurge-type being and that the Serpent in the Garden of Eden, was a Luciferian/Promethean type figure, seeking to wake up Man/Woman kind. I see the Left-Hand Path as that much maligned & forbidden path, which more and more of us are being called to follow.

For me, embracing a Gnostic world view, reading books like Fosforos and communicating with people on this forum, are all antinomian acts. Right now I feel more like a Luciferian than a Satanist. Maybe that will change as my understanding deepens but maybe it won't. I sense that whatever the label, I will be accepted here - that there is a place for me here.

Thanks again Frater for your comments. I appreciate this space.

LoopGodel.
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Re: The Goal of Left-Hand Path - Union or Separation.

Postby Kavi » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:34 pm

In exoteric sense concept of fana and self-annihiliation is pretty misunderstood as there is no proper understanding of ego/nafs. It is sometimes quite frustrating to speak about it as it most often means mere self-denial.
I have my problems with little too humble sufism, but I can still relate to Molana's poem:
"Die! Die! Die in this love"
Later in the poem the shackles and chains of prison are introduced to us.
It is also interesting that the word "die" is in plural imperative form.
be-mi*-rid.
the root* verb actually is originated in verb meaning go.
So to go in or inside love. (Although of course it is fancy way to say that someone has "passed away".)
Esgh may have its etymological history in older word of avestan and sanskrit.
In avestan
Ish - to wish/to desire
Aesha - desire, search
Ishti - aspiration, aim

In old church slavonic verb for searching would be iskaiti,
In nowadays Russian verb in imperfective aspect is iskat'.
Some would go as far as thinking that the english word ask is derived somehow from esgh.
"Ask and you shall receive", "seek and you'll find".

Even if this is total bullcrap I see this kind of analysing and theorizing in elevating manner.
Bemirid dar in eshg can have an idea of gnosis, going for search of knowledge or maybe just how love can boil us in buddhic manner.
All the prisons we have created around in our hearts in dichotomy will crash and shackles seize to exist.

Why I wrote this? I guess just to inspire a lot of people to see that you don't have to always think in black and white.
In Star of Azazelian way we need our both hands and paths in order to work.
7&8
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Nefastos
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Re: The Goal of Left-Hand Path - Union or Separation.

Postby Nefastos » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:35 pm

Kavi wrote:Even if this is total bullcrap I see this kind of analysing and theorizing in elevating manner. [...] to inspire a lot of people to see that you don't have to always think in black and white.In Star of Azazelian way we need our both hands and paths in order to work.


I'm a bit sad that Wettenhovi-Aspa gave such a silly face to "free associative linguistics", for if taken poetically instead of (pseudo-)scientifically, I think that such musings can be elevating indeed whether or not they hold water in actual linguistics. Your ideas made me think the possibly similar roots of "going" (moving towards something) and "being" (also moving towards something, ontologically?) in Latin & Russian languages, among other things... Nice exercises for one's imaginative muscles, not unlike interpretation of dreams. (As far as I have noticed, words met in dreams often follow the same associative logic, unburdened by linguistic semantics.)

LoopGodel wrote:Correct me if I am wrong. Am I right in seeing the Left-Hand Path as a powerful way for me to balance Light & Dark, both within me and in my understanding of the Divine, the Unity, the Ground of Being?


That's our way too, to unite the hands & paths, as fra Kavi said. You can see the model of eight paths including both our & the other Left Hand (and Right Hand) Paths attached to this post.

LoopGodel wrote:Right now I would not call myself a Satanist but rather a Gnostic & de facto heretic, in relation to Abrahamic monotheistic orthodoxy.


That actually depicts quite a lot of members in the Star of Azazel. I think I am actually in a minority, having actually the need to call my occultism "Satanic" per se. Once again, we are into semantics, and the need of rhetorics and/or/vs. devotion.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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LoopGodel
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Re: The Goal of Left-Hand Path - Union or Separation.

Postby LoopGodel » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:02 pm

Thanks to both of you for your comments & the links - I will look into those.

@Frater Kavi - I relate to what you say & the last comment sums it up beautifully - "In Star of Azazelian way we need our both hands and paths in order to work."

@Frater Nefastos, your words are very reassuring. I am glad I am not the only one who self-describes as a Gnostic on SoA.

The more time I spend on the forum, the more I experience it's roots to be sane, balanced & healthy.

I suspect that such characteristics might be even more important on the Left-Hand Path, but maybe that is not so.

Thank you.

LoopGodel.
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Re: The Goal of Left-Hand Path - Union or Separation.

Postby Cerastes » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:03 pm

LoopGodel wrote: "An eternal separation of the individual intelligence from the objective universe is sought in the Left-Hand Path".
I don't believe in separation.
A constant state of separation is dependend on the object/subject you want to separate yourself from.
Let's asume that whatever you want to seperate yourself from is moving towards you. Then you will have to step back to keep the distance. So what you despise is moving you.
Therefore, separation is one of the most paradox concepts not to say it is an illusion if interpreted in the common way. What I do believe in is the individualisation of ones intelligence. This however is only possible via reflection, connection and eventually exchange and it is something else than comfortable. Self-reflection alone is not enough, for whatever reflects back on you from other instances is equally important. I'd even go with Schelling at this point who does not clearly distinguish between object ans subject anymore. I think I'm coming from the exact opposite direction as you, LoopGodel and the bright face/right hand path is much more challencing for me. But time cleary showed me, that by cutting the whole into pieces, there is always something essential that gets lost.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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LoopGodel
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Re: The Goal of Left-Hand Path - Union or Separation.

Postby LoopGodel » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:23 pm

Red Bird, thanks for your comments & yeah, I echo your thoughts on the concept of separation. Even if separation in the ontological sense was possible - the way the Setian view seems to suggest - I don't think I would want that. I guess I desire both - I want to be a fully realised & individuated person, but simultaneously in sync with the All.

Great forum!

LoopGodel.

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