Animals

Symbols and allegories.
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Heith
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Re: Animals

Postby Heith » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:06 pm

Fans of the Horse Mysteries may find this intriguing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q07CLR5Q-8g

(2012/13 - Le Centaure et l'animal - BARTABAS / KO MUROBUSHI)
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Mimesis
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Re: Animals

Postby Mimesis » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:41 pm

Heith wrote:Fans of the Horse Mysteries may find this intriguing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q07CLR5Q-8g

(2012/13 - Le Centaure et l'animal - BARTABAS / KO MUROBUSHI)
This is absolutely fantastic. I can only thank you sincerely for sharing it, for I am struggling to word what it is that I am really watching at the moment, but there is something about this that is mercilessly engrossing. I cannot stop watching it! It shouts to me of something, but is so....almost subversive....that it is a challenge and a labyrinth to understand exactly what.

I had never heard of Bartabas prior to this, but in the context of this thread specifically, and drawing on my now very novice and limited but at least practical experience, one can only imagine the understanding and relationship that one must have developed with a horse to enter into an agreement under which it agrees to do such things as displayed in this.

Interestingly, I have been watching videos of Butoh performers this week - and thinking of them as magical expressions/states, via Alkistis Dimech - so this is also a nice synchronisation.
"We are such stuff. As dreams are made on, and our little life. Is rounded with a sleep."
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Cerastes
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Re: Animals

Postby Cerastes » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:11 pm

This is interesting. There is, within the thread regarding 'Symbolism' on this forum, a topic relating to animals which this would be interesting and relevant to. I, and others, have also spoken there of horses and the relationships with them therein.
Thanks I found it :)
Omoksha wrote:I have always had a great respect and empathy for animals; much more so than for humans in many respects, particularly in my younger years, although I hope that this has now become more wholesome and well-rounded.

However, despite this deep and over-arching respect, I have never had any particularly powerful experience with any one animal. Thinking of what one may call a 'spirit animal' or 'totem', for example, has been something I have not been able to answer for many years, and had resigned myself to thinking that I simply don't have a specific connection in that way.

For reasons essentially different, yet connected to those discussed here, I have recently begun to learn to ride a horse. They have always been an animal that I have found stunningly beautiful. Such power, strength and finesse, I find it impossible not to stand in awe of them when I have the opportunity. As well as of the symbolism and the high and noble ideal that they can represent.
And what a rich history with man they have; venerated religiously, as well as within war, peace and prestige. They have had to endure being used for both the best and worst of man.

I have now ridden twice, and am already convinced of a very strong relation between this and aspects of the great work. There is a strong esoteric thread in the relationship that one must develop with a horse that one is about to ride. It had been too easy to think of horse riding being about man controlling a horse to his dictation before. It is however not at all like this; it is more like an agreement. Much like how our every movement, action and word effects the moments in our life and work that follow both immediately and over the long passing of time, so too does every touch, look, movement and action inform the way in which a horse understands, interprets and thus acts toward man. In the context of riding, to me at least, this means that an agreement is sought with the horse, rather than an attempt to control it. And in this agreement, one must essentially become 'one' with the horse. So too should we 'become' our occult work, rather than merely attempt to 'control' it(?).

Another thing to strike me is how intuitively and easily they can read people, and in effect mirror this in the way they answer our plea for an agreement, or a pact, so to speak. The first time I rode, despite it being my first time, I did so with something close to confidence. As a result, so too did the horse feel comfortable in our agreement, which was equally displayed in its response to me whilst riding.
When riding the same horse for a second time, due to other goings on, I was a lot more uncertain and, in some ways, preoccupied. The horse mirrored this exactly in its behaviour and reaction to me.
So you learned this within two hours of riding?
That’s impressive, some horse owners need years for that or they never learn it.

One particular horse taught me this lesson.
I was starting to work with this extremely sensitive, beautiful blue-eyed mare some years ago. It was very fearful and problematic horse that injured his former owner. She ran away as soon as I tried to put a holster on her. It was impossible to control her since she was more likely to run into a car than to follow a human. She wouldn’t even let me tough her. I tried to gain her trust with every method from every horse trainer but the more I tried, the faster she ran. I was clueless how to train a horse without even toughing it.
One day I came to the horse paddock without the intention to work with her. It was a frustrating day and wanted to spend some time sitting near the horses to relax and read a book. After about an hour I almost fell asleep. As I opened my eyes the mare stood right next to me and was completely calm. This was a turning point in many ways. The next day I kept this state of passivity, erased all expectations and gave away the idea of control. She stopped running away from me ever since. So what happened is, that as soon I gave up the fight for control, the horse did the same and suddenly there was nothing left to fight about. In my interpretation that story represents the very meaning of oness and unity. However it has helped me a lot in the occult work too for it is not about controlling something but about becoming one with it.

I don’t think it is possible to unfold the full potential of something if one tries to control it. In order to “become something” it is always necessary to let something else go. Thus occultism demands quite a lot.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Cerastes
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Re: Animals

Postby Cerastes » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:47 am

She wouldn’t even let me tough her.
That supposed to mean "touch" of course.
I mixed up differnt languages again :roll:
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Heith
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Re: Animals

Postby Heith » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:44 pm

Red Bird wrote: So you learned this within two hours of riding?
That’s impressive, some horse owners need years for that or they never learn it.
I know exactly what you mean. One of the reasons I quit riding years ago was because I simply could not agree with how horses were kept and treated in many occasions. It became difficult trying to find a stable where I could agree with the methods. Every once in a while you hear or see a completely appalling "horse training". People always have the necessity to make everything into some kind of game of dominance and power. Whereas that is quite a poor way to take; in truth the horse is physically always superior so why go that way? I much rather spend time with an animal that wants to be with me, that has fun when we go riding. That we both have a good time and take care of each other. Sure, sometimes there are days when things don't work out, but generally speaking I think there's a reason for everything always. Why the horse doesn't want to jump a certain fence, why the dog refuses to walk etc.

As a side note, I'm taking up riding again, with what hopefully seems to be a good stable.
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Re: Animals

Postby Cerastes » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:24 am

Heith wrote:
Red Bird wrote: So you learned this within two hours of riding?
That’s impressive, some horse owners need years for that or they never learn it.
I know exactly what you mean. One of the reasons I quit riding years ago was because I simply could not agree with how horses were kept and treated in many occasions. It became difficult trying to find a stable where I could agree with the methods. Every once in a while you hear or see a completely appalling "horse training". People always have the necessity to make everything into some kind of game of dominance and power. Whereas that is quite a poor way to take; in truth the horse is physically always superior so why go that way? I much rather spend time with an animal that wants to be with me, that has fun when we go riding. That we both have a good time and take care of each other. Sure, sometimes there are days when things don't work out, but generally speaking I think there's a reason for everything always. Why the horse doesn't want to jump a certain fence, why the dog refuses to walk etc.

As a side note, I'm taking up riding again, with what hopefully seems to be a good stable.
That's a wonderful attitude to start riding again, I couldn't agree more.

About 80% of the „problematic“ horses I met so far were either in pain or in fear- or both. Their owners were usually trying to solve the problem with a whip or some other kind of violence. That's exactly what my riding teacher told me when I was a kid: Show the horse whos the boss!
It took a while for me to find out how wrong he was.

Oh, how I abhor peoples will-to-power. It spoils everything.
Sure it is sometimes necessary to take the leadership role, especially if it is an insecure or fearful horse that is looking for safety. But in this case it is not about dominance it is about trust and unity. The horse will follow everyone who is able to show an honest, calm, secure and peaceful way of leadership even without a holster or a rope, because that's what horses naturally do. If you are dishonest, unfair, aggressive, insecure or fearful you need violence to force it into obedience. Most horses give up and become lethargic. Very few go against their owners at some point and they usually end up at the slaughterhouse.

Horses can teach us quite a lot if we just listen.
I stopped working with other people’s horses because I'm unable to deal with most horse owners. (And they are obviously unable to deal with me)

But I can heartily recommend to not just to ride the horse but to communicate with it using a still mind and your body language only. This, however can be a very spiritual experience. Hopefully you will find a good riding stable were horses are allowed to be horses and not just sports equipment. I don't know about Finland but here this is very rare
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)

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