I'm not sure I follow the conversation accurately and if this got answered already. Anyway if this knot refers partly to how I expressed the language of abrahamic religions being completely different thing, I'd like to point out that the images that are communicated in religious myths usually refers to these timeless beings and to the charge between them as they are, so when political questions try to obstruct these models, the only thing such act can do is reverse the polarity in the outer forms. This to me is a dead end and a failure in facing the real problems behind all the hassle. But this is quite the extreme case and in all the good unselfish will that is circulating in feminist agendas will give chances for new perspectives caused by the flipping polarity.
Do you see this polarity flip necessary? I myself am not sure, but then again I'm actually quite ascetic and detached of the culture to have a say in this. Partly it seems almost violent and forced, but that's maybe just the one careless and scared current that usually takes it's place when something as big as feminism sweeps over. I wonder if these problems might have been dealt faster without these flippings by just channeling the female arcetype with greater enthusiasm. But then again the problems are spread on so many different layers that for example allowing outer female to embrace inner man is a cultural "problem" and might be doomed to be dealt as such.
Questons like these makes one find creative ways to use magic.
Yes, this pretty much matches my thoughts.
I don’t think the polarity flipping is necessary or good for society. Actually it is quite harmful, because –like you said- it is done by force and pressure. It seems more like they are erasing polarities anyway.
Sometimes I take a look around from the bird's-eye perspective. It’s a hedonistic, idealistic, materialistic and artificial world. Everyone wants to have it all and it is never enough. That is what causes a lot of hate and even passive/active violence including the need to put others down. In my interpretation, this is also what pushed modern feminism ad absurdum. The most frustrated and aggressive people are often the ones who can’t find their core within this confusing maze of internal and external expectations. Of course this is a result of oppressing the female archetype –including death. To find yourself and your own energies you necessarily need to let something else die and no, you cannot have it all.
Cancer wrote:Yes, this is exactly what I was saying; a blunt yet apt way to put it. The striving to see a human being as pure subject can be compared to the changes that technological development causes in our self-understanding. We are no longer so tightly bound to a certain place - to the extended body that nature near us could be. We can much more easily change our identity - in fact, the very concept of "identity" suggests that we live in a society where radical-ish self-determination is expected of everyone. We often don't have to work physically. And all of this is great, of course. Yet it also disconnects people from the basis of their living, makes then freischwebende, as Heidegger sneered almost a hundred years ago. That I can eat, say, an orange and have absolutely no idea where it came from (and how many slave laborers were worked to death on that particular farm) can be argued to undermine the consistency and meaningfulness of my life. It certainly should undermine my sense of self-worth. To have every product (physical and psychological) available anytime, anywhere, is the previously referenced negativity of reason - negative freedom - brought into practice. Few people notice what a Faustian endeavor our society is built on! For the ultimate form of this escape from matter (Mater...) is of course something like transhumanism (a technological, not theurgic, transhumanism). In the crystal spires of global capitalism clinical immortality is a completely believable idea.
Of course (even non-occult/spiritual) feminist thought can also be conceptualized precisely as opposition to the subjugation of nature both inner and outer. It often is, which is a relief. Feminism should participate in ”stuffing our hands back into the primordial dirt”! And yet it far too often manifests itself as a neurosis of cleanliness, especially in theoretically inclined people who do not belong in its original interest group, like me.
Interesting, that you mention Heideggers freischwebende Subjekte. In fact this is quite suitable for the current situation. It’s ironic that influence of the outer world on the individual grows if it denies it. People tell me all the time how strong and independent they are, but according to my experience you become more independent by accepting your dependence and you become stronger by accepting a certain kind of devotion. Quite often there is no direct way for an aim because everything is bound together.
You are right. What we call freedom is not freedom at all. We will have to pay our dues for the luxury we live in.
Sometimes I like to sleep in the forest. Sure it is cold and not very comfortable but I enjoy the cold because this is what we lost. The influence of nature and the sensitivity of what is happening around us. You can’t find this on Youtube.
Cutting the connection with “Magna Mater” is the problems core and it will not be erased by political statements because it is not a political problem.
My opinion on this is strongly connected with my own path of course and I’m not sure if it works for other people too. Finding this connection automatically leads to a more sustained life. Something that cannot be reached by political or social pressure.
But we are heading in another direction right now and I don’t think it is possible to just turn around.
obnoxion wrote:I am so happy the answer was satisfying, because the topic is so vast and full of subtleties! I just really enjoy these forum discussions, and that's why I write so often. Most days I have a few moments to write, but almost never a long enought time to write as clearly as I would like to. So I just try to keep the conversations going, and offer something interesting as often as possible. Also, I find it especially stimulating when we have a new and active writer on the forum, such as you, dear Red Bird.
To be perfectly honest I usually hate internet forums.
I most cases it is just a bunch of people fighting about who is right on a certain topic. Gladly this doesn't seem to be the case here and there are very specific, unusual structures of communication. (This might come from a high group coherence but I don't think this is the only reason)
So I'm happy to help you keeping the conversation going even if it is challenging my language skills.