John 12:25

Questions directed to the Star of Azazel.
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Jiva
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John 12:25

Postby Jiva » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:41 am

I forget whether it came with The Catechism of Lucifer or Fosforos, but John 12:25 – He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal – was inscribed upon an accompanying bookmark. I was wondering what significance this quote has for people, as it is surely quite evocative and can be interpreted in many different ways.

I posed this here as it's half directed at Nefastos as I assume it was chosen for a specific reason :P?
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
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Re: John 12:25

Postby Invitus » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:49 am

I think it's from the Catechism :) at least that's what I've most recently read in English.

Edit: I remember it being from the commandment about hating life, and finding the vanity in all form ect. But it's almost 4am and I'm not home, so can't look it up from my books. Usually I carry the conveniently small catechism with me though.
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Re: John 12:25

Postby Nefastos » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:47 am

That quote was first used as the motto for the first extremely limited edition of Fosforos in 2002, but since it was left out from Ixaxaar's Fosforos edition in 2003, it has seen some other use in the published texts. It was printed in the Catechism of Lucifer's deluxe edition cover inside, and used in the books' wrappings.

The verse follows right after this, which we have lately discussed elsewhere --

John 12:24 wrote:Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.


-- that is the motto of Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov.

But taken as isolated, to underline that verse was part of my more dualistic attitude back in those times - near the turn of the millennium -, which was more emotionally anticosmic. As opposed to my later views, where I more clearly see that the anticosmic ideal can only be attained through perfect equilibrium that is free of all astral intoxication, viz. emotional reactional states of hatred, even emotional oppression, & cetera.

But, whatever the stress, the idea remains the same: The one who cannot identify with this personal & mortal part of himself is already actually awake in his inner soul, which has the possibility of immortality i.e. true being. When joined with the other commandments of the same teacher, it paves the path to that "kingdom of heaven" which, of course, is nothing like the banal afterlife state that exoteric Christians have thought.

The verse following this one is:

John 12:26 wrote:If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.


This one draws the attention to the pyramid hierarchy found in all true occult doctrines. Every adept is a master for one's disciplines and a discipline for one's master. Even the gods have gods, and even the atoms have unborn sparks of creation orbiting around them. This is one of the ideas behind the "martyrdom for Christ", which was then executed so distastefully in action. Jesus taught his disciplines to follow the path similar to Gandhi, but instead they chose fanaticism & following of the dead letter of faith, some even masochistically revelling in tortures. Afterwards monastic systems thought that it was the tortures & continual mortification that uplifted man.

But as the verse says, every master makes a path (and also "becomes a way" of light & life) for the disciplines, like he himself is following the path of his own master. It is never identical, but it follows & puts to use the same universal principles, which are always some or other execution of the basic teaching of the honesty, love & sacrifice (meaning that one uses his willpower = energy for the whole & not only for himself).

To "hate" is a strong word, an important word here. One's "hatred" towards his little self - more correctly: restrictions of that small personality - is a must if the other self is to be awakened more & more. It is like the nearly hatched chick must "hate" the eggshell in order to peck itself out of it. The eggshell in itself is not bad but good, but still it must be broken to find a new form of being. This is the death, the purgatory, that people usually go through too late, only after the physical death, while it should be gone through while living in a body, in order to find the "kingdom". That is, the initiations which wake the higher self in the worlds that go through these we all know but are a deeper kind of being.

Only within the body is the material treasure that is used to attain the ascension, like only within the eggshell are contained the nutrients that the bird needs to grow as an individual creature. If we do not simultaneosly both use & hate those restrictions of our small personality, we cannot attain. Those who abandon the body in their search for initiations will also lose the root kundalinî along with it, becoming empty shells or demons in the process. Thus the verse is important to read in the context - or to ponder why the teacher didn't just kill himself there and then, if disembodiment would have been the answer.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: John 12:25

Postby RaktaZoci » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:36 pm

Nefastos wrote:
To "hate" is a strong word, an important word here. One's "hatred" towards his little self - more correctly: restrictions of that small personality - is a must if the other self is to be awakened more & more. It is like the nearly hatched chick must "hate" the eggshell in order to peck itself out of it. The eggshell in itself is not bad but good, but still it must be broken to find a new form of being. This is the death, the purgatory, that people usually go through too late, only after the physical death, while it should be gone through while living in a body, in order to find the "kingdom". That is, the initiations which wake the higher self in the worlds that go through these we all know but are a deeper kind of being.
This is such a beautiful description. I am flabbergasted!! :shock:
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Re: John 12:25

Postby Nefastos » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:30 am

RaktaZoci wrote:This is such a beautiful description.


Warm thanks, dear brother!

Wiktionary wrote:Adjective

flabbergasted ‎(comparative more flabbergasted, superlative most flabbergasted)

Appalled, annoyed, exhausted or disgusted.

He was flabbergasted at how much weight he had gained.

(euphemistic) Damned.

:)
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: John 12:25

Postby RaktaZoci » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:38 pm

flabber.jpg
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die Eule der Minerva beginnt erst mit der einbrechenden Dämmerung ihren Flug.
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Re: John 12:25

Postby Jiva » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:32 am

Yeah, great explanation :).

I’ve been thinking about this quote in a somewhat opposite way, after reading a description of Schelling’s first draft of the Weltalter (which is unfortunately currently only available in German) where this quote is obviously invoked. It is quite surprising as I’ve only read the third draft, which predominantly focusses on the Old Testament. I suppose the first draft is basically delivered from a Christian Cabbalist perspective, and also with a more literal interpretation of the word “lose”.

Basically, as god initially had inherent domination over everything, this was his one limitation which he removed by “losing” himself by contracting and creating something similar to himself, albeit with the option to choose unity, love etc. or not. This is kind of a second Absolute that is represented by Adam Kadmon. After Adam Kadmon ultimately falls, god contracts again to try and reconcile this division, thereby creating Christ. Only through his son does he overcome the initial divine egoism (his inherent dominance) and the fall into materiality (Adam Kadmon’s free will). This is a cyclical process though: god can only be freed from his limitation by the work of something uncontrollable. In other words, he must continually “lose” his life to find it.

From a human perspective, the original god is inverted. God had control over everything but could rule over no-one, but humanity rules without control and thus want to control the uncontrollable (despite being incapable of controlling the controllable i.e. nature). Particularly as Schelling proposes choosing love to overcome the division caused by Adam Kadmon’s fall – “hate” is a strong word, but god was obviously not satisfied by his single limitation – the two halves of this quote can be seen in both positive and negative ways in this particular formulation.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'

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