Death poll

[Heith]

This is a small poll I nicked from the Finnish forum. It has appeared in Helsingin Sanomat (the largest newspaper in Finland) a few years ago. They asked these questions from all religious groups in Finland with more than a thousand members. I thought it would be interesting to know how our brethren (and guests) view these- especially as I know that many in here are not religious.


1) Does a person die in their death completely?
2) Does life as an individual exists after death?
3) Does a person have a soul and / or spirit?
4) Is there some kind of spiritual or religious mystery in death?
5) Is the Biblical story of Christ's resurrection true?
6) Do Heaven and Hell exist in this time? (I gather the poll means, do they exist currently, during our lives)
7) Do Heaven and Hell exist after death?
8) Will a person be judged after their death according to their actions / deeds in life?
9) Is the moment of one's death predetermined?
10) Is reincarnation possible?
11) Is the resurrection of body possible?
12) Is there a time between death and resurrection?

[Heith]

And here are my thoughts on this:

1) Does a person die in their death completely?
No.

2) Does life as an individual exists after death?
I believe this is possible, but not something that is automatically obtained. One has to work for it. I do think in death some parts are lost, and in return, some are gained. Death is a change.

3) Does a person have a soul and / or spirit?
Yes. I believe we are many-layered, like an onion. And some parts fall away, or change shape, or leave to dwell elsewhere in death. It depends of the person how much they are able to hold on to their layers- provided that they even would want to.

4) Is there some kind of spiritual or religious mystery in death?
I would have to say yes, simply because I do think that death is the simple most wondrous and beautiful event that occurs in the universe- yet at the same time it is completely natural.

5) Is the Biblical story of Christ's resurrection true?
No. At least not in the way it is taught.

6) Do Heaven and Hell exist in this time?
Oh yes.

7) Do Heaven and Hell exist after death?
Possibly- but I do not believe in these as actual locations in any case- more like states of mind, or how one chooses to perceive things.

8) Will a person be judged after their death according to their actions / deeds in life?
In the biblical sense, no. But I do believe that we reap what we sow- if not already in this incarnation, then in the next one. So, yes, an action does not conclude or "erase" in death.

9) Is the moment of one's death pre-determined?
Yes. But it might be possible to bend one's Wyrd a little bit. Or at least to obtain knowledge of when and how.

10) Is reincarnation possible?
I would say it's probable.

11) Is the resurrection of body possible?
I do not know. I doubt this. Obviously, it is possible in different forms, such as morphing into a flower. But to actually walk & talk as the same person, in the same body (with perhaps more knowledge)- I don't think so.

The closest to this I can think of is shamanic death initiations. But even then, the person doesn't really die, they just kind of tap in there for a while. Or well, so I understand from the material I've come across. Of this I do not have first-hand knowledge.

12) Is there a time between death and resurrection?
From my experience I no longer believe that time really exists anyway in a linear sense- "other times" are accessible regardless of where we are. So I do believe that time is everywhere and nowhere- a concept of "past, present and future" seizes to exist in death probably, and all just is.

[Wyrmfang]

As usually with this kind of popular enquiries, the questions are hopelessly broad and unspecific to anything very interesting, but I´ll try something:

1) Does a person die in their death completely?

If "person" is conceived in the common sense, at least then, yes.

2) Does life as an individual exists after death?

No, because our consciousness as individual human being is inseparable from physical senses.

3) Does a person have a soul and / or spirit?

I don´t know, and depends entirely on what we mean by these terms.

4) Is there some kind of spiritual or religious mystery in death?

Of course. How else for example this enquiry would exist in such a popular magazine?

5) Is the Biblical story of Christ's resurrection true?

It has probably a lot of symbolical truth in it, but it is materially false.

6) Do Heaven and Hell exist in this time? (I gather the poll means, do they exist currently, during our lives)

In some sense they exist because we have these ideas and they are quite universal.

7) Do Heaven and Hell exist after death?

How could I know, and I think it does nothing good to ponder this question too much.

8) Will a person be judged after their death according to their actions / deeds in life?

I don´t know, but ethical thinking suggests this is true in some sense.

9) Is the moment of one's death predetermined?

No. Or at least if one believes so, nothing human makes very much sense. However, it is quite evidently determined causally.

10) Is reincarnation possible?

It is at least logically possible, and in my opinion it makes at least some sense although I´m very skeptic about it.

11) Is the resurrection of body possible?

No, although such doctrine may contain some symbolical truth.

12) Is there a time between death and resurrection?

I think this question does not make sense because if there is "life after death" it must be conceived in non-temporal and non-causal sense.

[Absconditus]

1) Does a person die in their death completely?

The actual psychology which defines the person in the end, I believe, will shut down completely when one dies. But there are a multitude of other parts of the human which continue on in different forms, at least our body, which dissolves into the ground.

2) Does life as an individual exists after death?

Depends on what we consider individual to consist of. I see the individual as a sum of all the parts. These parts will separate quite absolutely upon death.

3) Does a person have a soul and / or spirit?

I do believe there is a sort of "metaphysical individual" which, if reincarnation is to be believed in, determines the specific equation with which this individual will be bound to the next reincarnation. This could be called the soul, which uses the spirit and "will" to bind itself to an incarnation, to advance further. The soul could be the equation of the individual, "will" the initiator of this equation and spirit the essence which realizes it. This is a very rough simplification though, and I haven't had the time nor the intelligence to actually figure out if this could be true in any way or not. This is just what comes to my mind when I think about soul and spirit.

I have to say though, these terms are really hard to use, as they can mean almost anything and nothing. Almost every time someone uses them, they mean something different, so I wouldn't go about using these terms unless it's entirely clear what they mean.

4) Is there some kind of spiritual or religious mystery in death?

Yes, just like Wyrmfang and Heith said.

5) Is the Biblical story of Christ's resurrection true?

Probably not true in the usual sense, but it's a symbolical story of a RHP adept's life.

6) Do Heaven and Hell exist in this time? (I gather the poll means, do they exist currently, during our lives)

Not in the traditional christian sense, but you could say that Hell as a state of torment for the being does exist here and now, as well as Heaven as a state of freedom and bliss. Nowadays I see these terms as purely a metaphor for suffering/non-suffering and use them as such.

7) Do Heaven and Hell exist after death?

As a state of suffering/non-suffering, probably yes, if we assume that reincarnation is true to some degree.

8) Will a person be judged after their death according to their actions / deeds in life?

I believe we are continuously judged even while alive. After death we will just have less options for making things right.

9) Is the moment of one's death predetermined?

Seems that it is, and seems that it is not.

10) Is reincarnation possible?

As the person we currently are this is probably highly unlikely. But I do think that parts of us will be reincarnated, e.g. the questionably defined soul could spur a new person according to it's needs. Again, I am pretty unsure about what gets reincarnated and how.

11) Is the resurrection of body possible?

At least not yet. Probably never will be.

12) Is there a time between death and resurrection?

It's probably quite a lot more complicated than just a time between them. I, too, think that it's not temporal in any sense.

[Jiva]

1) Does a person die in their death completely?

If "person" is conceived in the common sense, at least then, yes.

2) Does life as an individual exists after death?

No, because our consciousness as individual human being is inseparable from physical senses.

8) Will a person be judged after their death according to their actions / deeds in life?

I don´t know, but ethical thinking suggests this is true in some sense.

I know this was just a simple quiz and I know you said you didn't know regarding judgement after death based on a person's actions during their life, but would you mind expanding a bit on your answer to question 8 in relation to the first two please? As I see it, if a person loses their individuality at death, then regardless of the existence of ethical thinking during human life, what purpose would there be in something else being judged for the actions of the individual after his/her death?

[Wyrmfang]

1) Does a person die in their death completely?

If "person" is conceived in the common sense, at least then, yes.

2) Does life as an individual exists after death?

No, because our consciousness as individual human being is inseparable from physical senses.

8) Will a person be judged after their death according to their actions / deeds in life?

I don´t know, but ethical thinking suggests this is true in some sense.

I know this was just a simple quiz and I know you said you didn't know regarding judgement after death based on a person's actions during their life, but would you mind expanding a bit on your answer to question 8 in relation to the first two please? As I see it, if a person loses their individuality at death, then regardless of the existence of ethical thinking during human life, what purpose would there be in something else being judged for the actions of the individual after his/her death?

Ok, this was very imprecise. I was thinking about reincarnation, that the "judgement" comes in next life. In the state "between" I think there cannot be individual consciousness (which experience of suffering requires). At least not in the sense we use the terms "person" or "individual". If there is something that survives death, spirit may a better term. It might of course be asked, isn´t the spirit an individual in some sense, but I would say no. It must be thought for example in terms of the classical metaphor of "a drop of water returning to the ocean"; there is no individuality, only potential for it.

But I have to add that I´m very cautious of the material truth of metaphysical doctrines in general, the most important question is always how do these doctrines concretely relate to our life here and now as know it. In this respect I admire Kant´s basic idea that if metaphysics were science, we would lose our capacity for morality, although I wouldn´t make as harsh universal and final judgments as Kant what humanity will necessarily always be.

[Jiva]

Ok, this was very imprecise. I was thinking about reincarnation, that the "judgement" comes in next life. In the state "between" I think there cannot be individual consciousness (which experience of suffering requires). At least not in the sense we use the terms "person" or "individual". If there is something that survives death, spirit may a better term. It might of course be asked, isn´t the spirit an individual in some sense, but I would say no. It must be thought for example in terms of the classical metaphor of "a drop of water returning to the ocean"; there is no individuality, only potential for it.

Thanks, this makes a lot more sense to me . I agree with you on the subject of the person or individual being a "a drop in the ocean". However, if I accept the tenets of reincarnation I think that whether someone would be judged in the next life would depend on whether it is exactly the same drop/individual that is reincarnated. Tied to this are questions about whether the whole spirit would (or even could) judge an aspect of itself in this manner and how it would actually go about this process.

This is actually why I haven't answered the quiz as most of it relates to reincarnation and post-death experience, things I'm very uncertain about.

But I have to add that I´m very cautious of the material truth of metaphysical doctrines in general, the most important question is always how do these doctrines concretely relate to our life here and now as know it. In this respect I admire Kant´s basic idea that if metaphysics were science, we would lose our capacity for morality, although I wouldn´t make as harsh universal and final judgments as Kant what humanity will necessarily always be.

Actually, this is something I'm encountering too, although my issue with many is that they start with a preconceived motivation. In Kant's case (and many others), this is to save religious thinking from purely scientific thought, which seems to me to have its basis in an emotional reaction. In this context I respect Spinoza equating god with nature – especially as it had serious personal consequences for him – but, as you said, not his metaphysical conclusion of how it relates to us i.e. no free will.