Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Questions directed to the Star of Azazel.
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Nefastos
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Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Postby Nefastos » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:00 pm

Although our forum has been here for some time, no questions have been asked as of yet. So, to end the silence, I bring here one topic that has been discussed in our Finnish forum - along with questions like Why Satan? & Why Azazel? All of these are good questions.

So, Why Jesus? - Why would an occultist who considers Satan as the most important character in the pantheon of divinities choose to talk so much of the one who is mainly understood to "come to crush the head of the serpent" & to end the dominance of Satan? Aren't these two arch-enemies?

First, we must understand the very foundation of the Star of Azazel. In our Constitution it is explicitly said that "The principal idea of the society is the attempt to spiritually unite forms of esotericism, which to this day are seen as opposed to each other". Most easy & most fundamental seeming opposition would, in the West, be the one of Christ and Satan. To understand how the entities so different from each other can be brought together in unison, we must understand that the key-word in the above text is "esotericism".

For it is the profane, non-esoteric & non-occult form of Christianity that condemns the Devil in all of His forms, as it is the profane, non-esoteric & non-occult forum of Satanism that condemns Christ similarly. True esotericism, true occultism always finds the root of things, the spiritual heart, wherein there can be no opposition, only beautiful play of the seeming opposites. The play, where the players actually very often become each other, are mixed, united & separated again. It needs sublimity to see & appreciate such beauty, but without such sublimity no occult work is ever possible.

Because of that, I see no reason to leave out Jesus' words - as an example of the teaching of a familiar Western prophet, magician, & a philosopher who Attained & Ascended, thus becoming God. Were we in East, I'd likely choose another "Christ" (e.g. Buddha) to present the cosmic Day, as opposed to the cosmic Night - or by whichever words we want to sum up this basic seeming duality, that actually is the two faces of the one and the same Absolute.

Personally, I find equal joy & guidance from the teachings of Jesus and from the teachings of Master Lucifer not yet put into codex, but altogether heard in life of both practice, devotion, & philosophical speculation.

* * *

And although this category of Questions is mostly reserved for the brotherhood members to tell about their convictions, outsiders are most welcome to tell about theirs, & perhaps tell why in their opinion there shouldn't be reverence of Jesus in a Satanic brotherhood.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Postby obnoxion » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:48 pm

There are many very reasons for following Jesus's ethical instructions, that must be obvious to most occultists. These have to do with the Christ-principle, familiar to any student of comparative religion.

By i would like to list two resons that are important to me as a satanist:

-Jesus shows himself to be a practicing magician in the Gospels
-His teachings are often based on the formula of inversion, and his examples are often antinomian, which are very importan formulas in my satanism

Then there are two other reasons that ar importan to me as a shakta:

-He teaches a passive way to Power
-Blood sacrifice is central to his story
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Postby Setheh » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:49 pm

Hello,

not only - many absolutely misunderstood the whole story even if he was not existing he was preaching something that was conntradictory to the nowadays church that have made the monopoly for his name just like for example the others are doing and if you will lok around you will quickly know which examples I would like to mention but I don't want to waste the space in my post right now. First of all what he was doing was someone who was at that time against the society's and the rulling caste in the area that he lived somehting absoltuely contradictory and of course they wanted to get rid of him immidiately and create some fictious punishment just to make him crucified and this help came from Judas who was paid by the jews, I don't know how real this story is and I was never an indept practicioner of chritianity and I am not seeing it as any other isms as very progressive because evreyone could and should use whatever he / she like saccording to their nature and the inner will to progress, that what was curcified I would say symbolicaly was something that they didn't wanted to know and deal with, they were so much afraid like the people who are true sheepish in nature and that's what chiristians are they were afraid and they are of their predatory side and use it for creative progress, for those many years they never learned and I don't know if they ever will at least so soon.

Greetings.
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Heith
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Postby Heith » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:55 pm

Well, the lately discovered Gospel of Judas suggests a little otherwise -that he was in fact acting according to the instruction of Jesus. Of course, this is a Gnostic text, so many can be very quick to dismiss it- but I've found it to be rather interesting. At least the document they've found is certainly very old, possibly a copy of a older text.

This is a little offtopic, but I wanted to mention this as I personally am suspicious of the way church portrays Judas, and he was mentioned on the previous post with thoughts on how accurate the story actually is. So in case you are interested, google around.

And no, I'm not currently nor have I ever practiced Christianity either, but the gnostic ideas are certainly very fascinating. But such is the case in every religion when one becomes a mystic, rather than a follower.

As to your reasoning or point with this predatory / sheepish side of christians (?), Setheh, I must say to me your text is incomprehensible. Perhaps this is because I'm not a native speaker of English.
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Postby Mera » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:26 pm

Hi all, I am new here, I wanted to add that I believe it was Jesus who said: "He who fell the highest loved you the most". I don't remember the exact quote but it is something like that.

I feel Jesus was man who brought about Transition, he was the son of morning/dawn... which is day.. from morning dawn or sunrise comes day. the Consciousness of Day...same for Lucifer... he was the light bearer.. son of morning, meaning the consciousness of Day which brings about transition a new beginning.

I see Lucifer is misunderstood to be one individual, from what I have read in the bible and other religious text.. it seems to me, there were two Lucifer's they talked about, one is a father/creator (light bearer) and the second is the son. (son of morning star)

I am a little bit unsure, about the different stories in religious texts about Lucifer, Devil, Satan and Azazel.

firstly there is a light bearer, from my own visions I saw the light bearer as the creator
his son (son of morning star)
than the dragon who is said to have become Satan...
lastly the Devil.

Sorry if this is the wrong post to ask this question, but are they all the same 'being'?
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Postby Heith » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:09 pm

Unfortunately I can't answer to the question you pose, as my knowledge of the topic is null. I'm sure that someone else here knows more though :) Just wanted to say, welcome to the forum!
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Postby Mera » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:37 pm

Thank you Heith, it's a pleasure to meet you. :)
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Postby Nefastos » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:27 pm

Be welcome Mera!

One can't help but to laugh (or then cry) to think how a tantric saint like Jesus has been made into a travesty of true sacredness like it's done in Christianity. Just reading the rabbi's own words quickly make it clear how he's an antithesis of those dogmas & that hypocrisy he has been falsely connected to.

Matthew 11:19 wrote:The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Matthew 9:13 wrote:But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


And so on, and so on, almost every possible saying of Jesus is so clearly "Luciferian" gnosis that it strikes me as a small but miraculous triumph of the tormented & crucified truth how the Christians have ever allowed those fundamental teachings to remain in their Bible...

Mera wrote:it seems to me, there were two Lucifer's they talked about, one is a father/creator (light bearer) and the second is the son. (son of morning star)

I am a little bit unsure, about the different stories in religious texts about Lucifer, Devil, Satan and Azazel.

firstly there is a light bearer, from my own visions I saw the light bearer as the creator
his son (son of morning star)
than the dragon who is said to have become Satan...
lastly the Devil.

Sorry if this is the wrong post to ask this question, but are they all the same 'being'?


The question of the boundaries of a being is actually difficult in occult metaphysics, for the individual self both is and is not absolute.

I'd suggest to ponder which of these names are actually like titles.

Personally I think that:

1) "Devil" is a force, not a being. (See what Eliphas Levi wrote upon the subject, astral light.)

2) "Satan" is a title given to a lofty being of whose real face today's humankind has extreme difficulty to see as it is, rather seeing it masked.

3) "Morning Star" is a title for a forerunner of a certain uplifting spiritual agenda.

4) Somewhat similar to this is "Lucifer"="The Light-Bearer", who illuminates minds & souls & beings of men. But this title is also an individual name for a being who works very close to "Satan".

5) Azazel is a name. But it is also a title for beings that work close to Lucifer in a way that Lucifer works close to Satan.

In the Star of Azazel's theo-philosophical structure of occultism, these three, Satan-Lucifer-Azazel are like a Satanic Trinity. They are, and are not, a same being: they are like three aspects of one and the same god that is both macro- and microcosmical: that is, present in the universe and within an individual.

Satan: The Black aspect, that power that is closest to its Roots.
Lucifer: The White aspect, the power that is Celestial.
Azazel: The Red aspect, the power that unites both of these to personal, mundane man by his personality & personal strife & "karma".

Cf. "Jesus" is a name, where "Christ" is a title. A similar compound name would be "Melchizedek Satan".
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Postby Mera » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:48 pm

Hi Nefastos, thank you, pleasure to meet you too. very interesting comments, thank you.

“Just reading the rabbi's own words quickly make it clear how he's an antithesis of those dogmas & that hypocrisy he has been falsely connected to.”

That’s very true, not just rabbis, I would add all religious preachers are this way. They are very judgmental and can be cruel when casting and pointing judgment. I find that very alarming and distasteful.

How can anyone truly judge others based on holy text and be blinded to their own presence before all that there is. Religion is not for me, at the same time I do not disregarded it as I see it as part of my journey to learn from what I can from it.

I personally have had lots of life experience with people of religion, preachers and found lots of blindness to the very core of denial living, even though I have also met lots of nice people. Women even in Buddhism are treated as second class. To me ‘she/female/feminine consciousness has served man kind since fire was forced to subdue to the consciousness of man. Asking fire to worship man and do what ever man asks, is like being raped, and forced to subdue taking the fire’s breath away, free will being taken away. If this is the case than free will was breached by God and religious men and women are here to save their god who forced fire to lay bare without voice. I don’t believe these stories in the bible about fire than becoming a dragon, or Satan, defying God, creation is far more harmonic than documented in religious text.

I am not bitter about this because I recognize this is also as part of creation school of learning to understand the riddle of duality. The man analogy is to be served. It seems to me, the servant is the creator, the essences, the tools of creation, fire, water, soil, air, light, the guardians etc.. We are all probably the children of creation and creation is teaching us not to be afraid and awaken to our own inner power. Or maybe the elements fought savagely with each other that creation decided to place the consciousness of creation into ‘man’ so creation can learn to be ‘one’, or in union. I don’t really know to be honest. I am still trying to discover why we are here when the cosmos is as vast and infinite as it feels..

“And so on, and so on, almost every possible saying of Jesus is so clearly "Luciferian" gnosis that it strikes me as a small but miraculous triumph of the tormented & crucified truth how the Christians have ever allowed those fundamental teachings to remain in their Bible...”

Yes I resonate with this very much as I sensed a long time ago, Jesus, and even Muhammad both taught the same thing only using different approaches.

“Morning Star" is a title for a forerunner of a certain uplifting spiritual agenda.”

Mmm this is interesting how you see that the son is the forerunner, in my Lucifer’s trace, he created his son in light and his son did not recognize his creator as his father. perhaps than the son is Man as in Jesus consciousness who became Christ consciousness by recognize his Father/creator. Mmm I mean collectively we do not recognize Lucifer as the creator. Although I need to think about this some more, I am sure there is more to it than just not recognizing the creator.

I will think about the other things you said, about to see them as forces, thank you for your input, very interesting. With much gratitude.

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