Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Questions directed to the Star of Azazel.
obnoxion
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Post by obnoxion »

Kavi wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:36 pm
I always had an intuitive feeling, unlike some of radical Christians, that what mattered most of Jesus was his teachings, ethics and symbolism found in Gospels.
I think perhaps most important thing is how Jesus teaches in the Gospels. Every act is a symbol, each sentence an analogy.
There is a laconism to Jesus' teachings, which pertains to visual thinkers, such as Seers. William Blake stressed rightly the importance of this aspect of Jesus, compared to the Pauline concept of vicarious savior to be unquestioningly accepted. I think there is transcendence rather in the ongoing, living interpretatio of Jesus' acts and words; to gaining sight to things we cannot conceptualize to common verbal instructions.

"Thine is the friend of all mankind,
Mine speaks in parables to the blind."

- William Blake on Jesus -
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
Kavi
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Post by Kavi »

obnoxion wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:55 pm
Kavi wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:36 pm
I always had an intuitive feeling, unlike some of radical Christians, that what mattered most of Jesus was his teachings, ethics and symbolism found in Gospels.
I think perhaps most important thing is how Jesus teaches in the Gospels. Every act is a symbol, each sentence an analogy.
There is a laconism to Jesus' teachings, which pertains to visual thinkers, such as Seers. William Blake stressed rightly the importance of this aspect of Jesus, compared to the Pauline concept of vicarious savior to be unquestioningly accepted. I think there is transcendence rather in the ongoing, living interpretatio of Jesus' acts and words; to gaining sight to things we cannot conceptualize to common verbal instructions.

"Thine is the friend of all mankind,
Mine speaks in parables to the blind."

- William Blake on Jesus -
What a wonderful quote.
I have always wanted to read William Blake but probably I have been too afraid to look into it thinking English is too impenetrable for me. But probably it's not the case.
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Insanus
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Post by Insanus »

I recently read the bible a bit, Romans, specifically. There:

3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the Law; rather through the law we become conscious of our sin.

5:20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

7:2 For example by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies she is released from the law that binds him to her.
7:6 But now by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

10:4 Christ is the culmination of law

10:4 is sometimes translated "Christ is the end of the law" which emphasises dying, whereas this culmination-translation emphasises that Christ is not reactive antithesis of the law. Here it seems that Christ is sort of a state of consciousness that can be reached by "dying to what once bound us", certainly has a buddhist flavor to it.
Not to re-mention Kavi's point about antinomian acts to fulfill the law.
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Boreas
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Post by Boreas »

I have quite little interests in the historicity of Jesus but I value many of the teachings given in his name, be they canonical, gnostic or apocryphal.

In the past I was very much against any kind of Jesus, but this was only because of the distortions and out right idiocy of the whole Christian enterprise which I then associated with Jesus and rejected vehemently since teenage, against better knowledge. It was when I started studying the occult and came across heretical views that my interests in the actual teachings of Christ arouse, and Nefastos' book commentary of the Sermon on the Mount cemented my views of Jesus as a high initiate.

As an "odinist" my main priority is to seek knowledge and wisdom, and I don't really care from what source this wisdom comes if I recognise it as such. It is the warrior aspect of Jesus that has the most value for me personally; one who struggles against ignorance and injustice in the name of a higher ideal. It has been said: Christ was a Heathen.

There is a high value in the Christ mythos for any esotericist, since once one treads the occult path seriously, one will most certainly experience the main points of the myth first handedly.
Hail is the whitest of grain; it is whirled from the vault of heaven and is tossed about by gusts of wind and then it melts into living water.
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Nefastos
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Post by Nefastos »

Boreas wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:32 am
It has been said: Christ was a Heathen.

Today I sent the last commentary of the Old Testament in the reading group that has now been functioning sixty weeks. It is a great relief to let go of the Old Covenant's evil tyrant God, and face the more loving face – at least occasionally! – of the God in the "New Covenant", or Christ. (Of course I am personally very sceptic do the Christians understand the whole Covenant thing very well, since spilling of innocent blood is not high on my own magical acts in theology or elsewhere.)

But it was just the last week when I wrote, while commenting the Book of Nahum, that:

Jesus' teaching of non-resistance (or non-violent resistance) and tenderness also towards one's "enemies" is therefore easier to join to the pagan religions than his own background of Judaism. That is, the master of Christian faith is therefore (to me) closer to pagan than his own Jewish basis of faith.

But this said, it has also been very illuminating for me to see many topoi that we nowadays only know from Christianity in the Jewish religion of the Old Testament. They are not morals but sayings, paraphrases, ways of verbalizing things. Many sayings of Jesus & the ways he acted are now much more understandable to me.

And one question arises from these two things: Was Jesus' death also partly rising from his background, where suffering seems to be a glorified part of the process? Did he actually give in to the gestalt spirit of martyrdom, where that could have been averted, and better things gained from a bloodless religion? Was to die Jesus' fall as a master adept?

Perhaps not, but I have to let these possibilities arise, and go through them carefully.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Boreas
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Re: Why Jesus? (Or, why not)

Post by Boreas »

This kind of "Christ with Pagan's" kind of thought pleases my own sensibilities very well, and makes me wonder how the early Christians found their home easily with the Greeks, for whom Platonism had already pawed the way for Christianity in many respects. It also makes me think of the Mormons - if any! - and their declaration that the third coming of Christ will come through Pagans.
Hail is the whitest of grain; it is whirled from the vault of heaven and is tossed about by gusts of wind and then it melts into living water.
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