On the Exoteric Aspects and other questions

Questions directed to the Star of Azazel.
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Krepusculum
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On the Exoteric Aspects and other questions

Postby Krepusculum » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:52 pm

As I mentioned in my introduction I am considering membership but would like to gain some insight into some topics that are to me still unclear or I maybe overlooked.

I was unsure if it was best to make separate threads or post them all in one. If you prefer them separated please let me know and I will assign them accordingly.


1. Is there a minimum time required working with an Exoteric Aspect? And can one work with more than one simultaneously? I can understand that initially working with only one aspect is advised but considering the nature connected to each Aspect I believe they can become complementary and enrich the overal work of the practicioner. Since there seems to be an emphasis on unity in your foundational philosophy I saw it as a possibility.

2. How do members generally communicate with each other? A public forum works fine for general discussions but I do prefer a more private environment when sharing more in depth and personal topics.

3. Will there be more articles translated from the Finnish website? I noticed a huge gap in articles comparring to the Finnish website and have actually been reading those by letting Google translate the website pages. Of course the translations are not perfect and some words remain in Finnish, still it gives some deeper insights to the brotherhoods ideas so they seem quite crucial also for international applicants or interested parties.

4. Is The Book of Paths available in english?

Also related to publications will there be a reprint of Fosforos and The Cathcism of Lucifer soon? I have read the texts but do not own physical copies of these books. Maybe doing a regular paperback edition that is less costly to keep in print might be an additional alternative to the hardback editions. I see that these texts are very important to unterstand the foundational concepts of the SoA and it would be nice for aspirants and new members to be able to acquire these when required or wanted.

That's it for now. Hopefully my questions are not too redundant. Thank you for your time.
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Heith
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Re: On the Exoteric Aspects and other questions

Postby Heith » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:27 pm

Thank you for your questions! They are all good. I will answer with my best ability, other members feel free to add if I forget anything crucial.
Crepusculum wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:52 pm

1. Is there a minimum time required working with an Exoteric Aspect? And can one work with more than one simultaneously? I can understand that initially working with only one aspect is advised but considering the nature connected to each Aspect I believe they can become complementary and enrich the overal work of the practicioner. Since there seems to be an emphasis on unity in your foundational philosophy I saw it as a possibility.
With the structural change in the society -and I do apologise that we apparently have outdated information still lurking about, the forum especially is difficult to keep a track of- also the exoteric aspects are sort of "free game", in other words, there no longer are exoteric aspect guides and acolytes so we do not have a for example "this month we do this & feel free to join, all aspect of Stone members" - work.

This does not mean that one can not work within a certain aspect, or emphasize the aspect's characteristics in their studies & work -or indeed, to test aspect practices created in the past if they so like. All members can also (either within their own lodge or between people from varying lodges) create practices. These can be tied to aspects, but they don't need to be.

The amount of practices depends of a lodge but as a thumb rule I think anyone can suggest. So lodges are more like study groups or I guess you could say, covens. I can't think of another word besides 'coven', but I hope it is clear I am not making a reference to a specific magical tradition.

From a personal point of view I think aspects are more than anything a certain emphasis or approach one puts in the work. My emphasis is always on the artistic path, and this is a tool for my personal occult studies.
Crepusculum wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:52 pm
2. How do members generally communicate with each other? A public forum works fine for general discussions but I do prefer a more private environment when sharing more in depth and personal topics.
This depends of members.

We do have a members only -section on the forums, but fraternity members can also get their own email address. I write letters in old school style but am suspecting that I am in the minority with this.

And then of course, members meet up. Lodges in Finland have physical meetings and I meet up with people from elsewhere when possible.

Crepusculum wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:52 pm
3. Will there be more articles translated from the Finnish website? I noticed a huge gap in articles comparring to the Finnish website and have actually been reading those by letting Google translate the website pages. Of course the translations are not perfect and some words remain in Finnish, still it gives some deeper insights to the brotherhoods ideas so they seem quite crucial also for international applicants or interested parties.
I take off my hat for your dedication, because Google translate is notoriously bad when it comes to Finnish language!

You are absolutely correct that there is a huge difference between material available in English and in Finnish.
The challenge with this is as everyone works on a voluntary basis and the writings tend to require quite a high level of English language skill there are not so many who can or feel comfortable translating them, and then the editing work takes a very long time after. Perhaps you would like contact with some of our international brethren?
Crepusculum wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:52 pm
4. Is The Book of Paths available in english?
The Book of Paths is partially translated, but I daresay it will be a long while before it would be ready to be released -we'll have to have it checked by our native English speakers.

Crepusculum wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:52 pm
Also related to publications will there be a reprint of Fosforos and The Cathcism of Lucifer soon? I have read the texts but do not own physical copies of these books. Maybe doing a regular paperback edition that is less costly to keep in print might be an additional alternative to the hardback editions. I see that these texts are very important to unterstand the foundational concepts of the SoA and it would be nice for aspirants and new members to be able to acquire these when required or wanted.
As with everything, these are a question of both time and money. If I am up to date (I don't at the moment work directly with Viides Askel), there is a Fosforos to be reprinted, but I think in Finnish. It has been an idea to make books so that they are affordable to a wider audience.

I think Nefastos is currently working on a new title but this might be out first in Finnish. Perhaps he will be able to shed some light on the matter if he sees this post.

As to Catechism of Lucifer, I have not heard of plans to re-publish, but again Nefastos is wiser on this.

There are a few copies of Unseen Fire still floating about, I have a vague idea that I would have some in stock still in the UK, in case you are interested of those & it's more convenient than the Finnish mail prices.
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Cerastes
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Re: On the Exoteric Aspects and other questions

Postby Cerastes » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:54 pm

To give you an idea of ​​membership for non-Finns, let me tell you a little bit about it.

Of course it is little more difficult for us "internationals" at first because it is not so easy to meet other members and exchange ideas directly. I'm a member for less than a year now but this short time has been very valuable on many levels.

The lodges are as different as the people. Some put their focus more on practical side, others are based on studies and intellectual work. Working in Lodges provides a high amount of flexibility and a good base for own ideas. But it is also challenging because nobody will take you by the hand and be your personal teacher. You get a toutor who will answer your questions at the beginning but there is no ideological step-by-step manual and you will still have to find your own path. Personally I prefer this kind of responsibility and freedom because I don't like the “one size fits all” idea in occultism. But so far every time I had a problem or a question I got a very thoughful, supporting and nice answer. There is a special and unique spiritual atmosphere in the brotherhood and I wouldn't want to miss this anymore. For the future, of course, we are looking for ways to make it a little easier for international members. There have been discussions about this and we are open to suggestions.

I hope that gives you an insight into what we do. If you still want to know something, you're welcome to ask.
Last edited by Cerastes on Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Krepusculum
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Re: On the Exoteric Aspects and other questions

Postby Krepusculum » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:55 pm

Your replies are much appreciated.

Concerning the aspects it is helpfull that you explained the structural changes in the society as I got a lot of information concerning them from The Book of the Gateways which seems to be a bit outdated as from what you are telling me. I see the lodges still operate under a specific aspect(s), yet if there are no aspect guides what role does the head of a lodge play? Using an aspect to emphasise a particular type of work is exactly my intent also. It becomes a focal point and believe it can also empower the work in a general sense.

Heith wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:27 pm

We do have a members only -section on the forums, but fraternity members can also get their own email address. I write letters in old school style but am suspecting that I am in the minority with this.

And then of course, members meet up. Lodges in Finland have physical meetings and I meet up with people from elsewhere when possible.
Excellent! Well in all honesty when texts are a bit lengthy I prefer sending and recieving letters by mail as a reference for myself and actually don't like to spend too much time reading from a screen. So I guess we are part of the same minority. For sure some form of contact with international brethren would be nice. I will DM you.

I understand it's a lot of work to make quality translations and you are quite right that Google translate is not the most reliable source. Still it works to get the general ideas, unfortunately I am no Finnish speaker otherwise would gladly help to translate some articles. Ironically many years ago I purchased a couple of booklets by Nefastos in an attempt to translate the for personal study but realized I wasn't up for the task. I might put those up for sale here.


Regarding the publications it's nice to know they are being worked on. I think the SoA would gain a lot if they kept the foundational texts available as I see you are doing great effort to gain more international interest.

I already have a copy of the first Unseen Fire and will probably purchase the second journal soon.
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Krepusculum
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Re: On the Exoteric Aspects and other questions

Postby Krepusculum » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:11 pm

Cerastes wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:54 pm

The lodges are as different as the people. Some put their focus more on practical side, others are based on studies and intellectual work. Working in Lodges profides a high amount of flexibility and a good base for own ideas. But it is also challenging because nobody will take you by the hand and be your personal teacher. You get a toutor who will answer your questions at the beginning but there is no ideological step-by-step manual and you will still have to find your own path. Personally I prefer this kind of responsibility and freedom because I don't like the “one size fits all” idea in occultism. But so far every time I had a problem or a question I got a very thoughful, supporting and nice answer. There is a special and unique spiritual atmosphere in the brotherhood and I wouldn't want to miss this anymore. For the future, of course, we are looking for ways to make it a little easier for international members. There have been discussions about this and we are open to suggestions.
This gives some good insight. Thank you.
I understand what you mean, I'm not looking for a personal teacher but more a community where ideas and possibly practices can be shared. Of course I am open for learning if I sense certain information and interaction can guide me but also others further.
Actually I'm quite individualistic when it comes to these matters and therefore its nice to hear that value is given to independent paths.
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Heith
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Re: On the Exoteric Aspects and other questions

Postby Heith » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:49 am

Crepusculum wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:55 pm

Excellent! Well in all honesty when texts are a bit lengthy I prefer sending and recieving letters by mail as a reference for myself and actually don't like to spend too much time reading from a screen.
I very much understand this, but realistically speaking it is still something you will have to do to some extent if you join a lodge -Certainly not trying to put you off, I simply want to state this so you are aware that the majority of contact is via screens (as I guess is in all work places, mundane or occult). Particularly if there is group work that people partake in, there will be a few intense days of messaging and then those messages can be long.
Crepusculum wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:55 pm

I already have a copy of the first Unseen Fire and will probably purchase the second journal soon.
Our Canadian distribution is out of stock. Viides Askel has the very last copies. So if you really want it, it's best to get it sooner than later because unfortunately we all know what happens to occult publication prices once they're sold out.

EDIT: I forgot to answer to this:
Crepusculum wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:55 pm

Concerning the aspects it is helpfull that you explained the structural changes in the society as I got a lot of information concerning them from The Book of the Gateways which seems to be a bit outdated as from what you are telling me. I see the lodges still operate under a specific aspect(s), yet if there are no aspect guides what role does the head of a lodge play? Using an aspect to emphasise a particular type of work is exactly my intent also. It becomes a focal point and believe it can also empower the work in a general sense.
The Book of Gateways is still valid as a personal tool. Anyone is free to focus on certain practices, ponderings or aspect focus on their path. It can help make direction clearer, as mastering all things simultaneously is very hard.

Lodges indeed tend to choose one or two aspects that define their focus. This could be seen as energetic focus or way of working. The lodge guide and acolyte are responsible for maintaining this energetic current, as well as overseeing every day stuff (newsletters etc). Not all lodges have acolytes, but a lodge will always have a guide. A guide ensures that everything is going ok, and if a spokesperson for the lodge is required in our larger meetings, it is usually the guide's job. And theoretically if something was to go wrong, the guide would be responsible for solving the situation.

Depending of lodge a guide may have more rights in decision making than other lodge members but this depends of a lodge and what is practical. If a lodge has three members it's easy to discuss everything together and make decisions, but if a lodge has ten members time managing becomes challenging. Lodge guides might for example automatically be one of the people voting on membership applications, or they can dismiss people (which we very rarely need to do).

Of lodge emphasis. For example, a Serpent lodge would most likely focus on artistic approach; music, arts, poetry -the gateways to occult understanding. An Eye lodge, could focus on critical approach, academic style, or perhaps philosophy.

The form aspects, that is, Serpent, Eye and Stone, are 'visible' manifestations of the formless aspects (Red, Black, White). A Chalice works as a intermediate between the form and formless.

For example, lodge Phanes, being a Chalice aspect lodge, attempts to bring esoteric understanding to the world by working with translations and publications. But of course there are really many ways to approach the aspects. Each of our lodges is unique and it's best to read their description and/or approach lodge personnel with questions. Depending of lodge, personal focusing is possible. For example, my personal focus is not Chalice, although I work in a Chalice lodge.

Not sure if this was confusing or helpful?

If you have questions of particular aspects, happy to discuss those also.
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Nefastos
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Re: On the Exoteric Aspects and other questions

Postby Nefastos » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:33 pm

Crepusculum wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:52 pm
Also related to publications will there be a reprint of Fosforos and The Cathcism of Lucifer soon? I have read the texts but do not own physical copies of these books. Maybe doing a regular paperback edition that is less costly to keep in print might be an additional alternative to the hardback editions. I see that these texts are very important to unterstand the foundational concepts of the SoA and it would be nice for aspirants and new members to be able to acquire these when required or wanted.
Heith wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:27 pm
As with everything, these are a question of both time and money. If I am up to date (I don't at the moment work directly with Viides Askel), there is a Fosforos to be reprinted, but I think in Finnish. It has been an idea to make books so that they are affordable to a wider audience.

I think Nefastos is currently working on a new title but this might be out first in Finnish. Perhaps he will be able to shed some light on the matter if he sees this post.

As to Catechism of Lucifer, I have not heard of plans to re-publish, but again Nefastos is wiser on this.


Reprint of the Catechism of Lucifer is not planned, since personally I do not see it as a central text, but more like a curiosity. Reprint of Fosforos has been in planning (and making) for some time, but there are so many loose ends, and already tied up ends tend up coming loose again, that it seems unlikely that a new edition will come out in very near future. But the idea for that was exactly what you suggested, Crepusculum: to make the new edition less costly.

There are several plans regarding publications, but how much challenges keep piling upon every project we try to do on publication front is so confronted with endless amount of bad luck, that stars just seem to be wrong at the moment. But where there is will, there is a way. All the work put in unseen work will pay up someday, whether it's a year, a decade, or a hundred years from hence. Because of this, however, being a Star of Azazel active member for now isn't the easiest of paths in esotericism. Luckily, such inner or outer activity is demanded from no member, excluding only a handful of oath-bound guides (keepers of the lodges and hermetic aspects).
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"

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