Reading Circle (Blavatsky: The Secret Doctrine)

Discussion on literature other than by the Star of Azazel.
User avatar
Smaragd
Frater
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:27 am

Re: Reading Circle (Blavatsky: The Secret Doctrine)

Postby Smaragd » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:55 pm

Cerastes wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:36 pm
Smaragd wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:13 pm
I like the coldness of electronic schematics, though I rarely have had the ability to watch them with an appreciating and interpretive eye for I've been busy sweating and cursing trying to bring my synthesizer mods working. :D
In my experience electronic devices work best with a mixture of cursing, coffee and cynicism so you are already got the basic principles of engineering. :P
I was about to write a longer text about electricity as an energy and the relation to occult systems but it was very too weired and nerdy to share it. Maybe, if I find a way to verbalzie this in an understandable way, I will put it on the forum sometime.
Looking forward to that. I enjoy hearing how people find connections to occultism amongst their special interests. Discussing it might help one getting further with that connection.
User avatar
Aquila
Frater
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Reading Circle (Blavatsky: The Secret Doctrine)

Postby Aquila » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:35 pm

I have been struggling with the stanza 3:8 and the commentary to it for very long but I think it has to do with the unity of what is in the core of a human being and the absolute divinity appearing as darkness to our perception. It also discusses about the vehicles of Brahma but does it in very complex and unclear way and I think this is the most difficult part to make much sense of at the moment but I think the next parts explain it more as Blavatsky writes of the elements and then how Brahma becomes the universe like spider weaves a web. Maybe we have some clarity of the Brahma's vehicle here that is the whole universe which earlier has been interpreted to be only the milky-way that in some mythologies is known as "The pathway of the birds" (for example Finnish "Linnunrata") and Brahma's "vehicle or Vahan is a swan or goose”. Blavatsky writes that this is purely an exoteric interpretation and I think this is due to the fact that the universe and the symbols we give to the infinite divinity are finite and will disappear and change. I think of symbols and various presentations merely as gates to deeper understanding and if we look at the whole manifested universe as a symbol of the divine we are always at the gates where it doesn't really matter whether the interpretation is exoteric or esoteric as we are always on the pathway if our intentions are right and we aim to see how the Universal Mind impresses it's ideas into matter (the way Fohat works as explained in Stanza 3:12) and what is the meaning behind.
User avatar
Polyhymnia
Soror
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:20 pm

Re: Reading Circle (Blavatsky: The Secret Doctrine)

Postby Polyhymnia » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:36 pm

3.8 is a head scratcher for me too, and I think it's just one of those paradoxes that we're going to have to divorce from what we understand as logic. I find the way I absorb the material is to read, continue on, go back and reread. The material seems to open partially like layers, and when one goes back they'll find those layers open just a bit more. At least that's how I interpret it.
What I mainly took away from this stanza was the direct link to SoA's first point: Doctrine of Unity i.e.) Nature or God cannot be dualistically divided, and the highest God, the highest truth cannot be understood as a personal being.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Smaragd
Frater
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:27 am

Re: Reading Circle (Blavatsky: The Secret Doctrine)

Postby Smaragd » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:39 pm

Thought I'd take another look myself on the Stanza 3.8 before moving on to the fourth.
First of all it seems to point back to the previous ones last words:
Stanza 3.7. wrote:Behold him lifting the Veil, and unfurling it from East to West. He shuts out the above and leaves the below to be seen as the great Illusion. He marks the places for the shining ones (stars) and turns the upper (space) into a shoreless Sea of Fire, and the One manifested (element) into the Great Waters.
As the world has brought forth its material manifestation and thus the great illusion has blinded us, the Stanza 3.8. asks:
Stanza 3.8. wrote:Where was the germ, and where is now darkness? Where is the spirit of the flame that burns in thy lamp, oh Lanoo?
The darkness is in ourselves, in our sorrows — the shadows of the world. Yet these manifestations are not the germ, but small parts of it. Their place in the darkness is pointed by the Aleph, connecting the "He, Thou & I" (the different parts of oneself, He is the other, I is the egoistic me and Thou is maybe encountering of the two?), which is the first letter of the Hebrew aplhabet, the first manifestation — Logos ie. Christ who brings unity in the shadows of the microprosopus through the heart felt interpretation and action, which is like the "hansa" or swan who can drink the milk from the water ie. choose the ethical & holistic option in every moment.
The Seal of Solomon drawn by Eliphas Levi illustrates the shadowy nature of the microprosopus in a striking way I think.

Where is the germ? It is in the empty nucleus of every atom, which can not be seen through the limitations of the three dimensioned time continuum, but is the same and shared with all atoms. Thus the uniting Son "marks the places for the shining ones (stars)".
The gemantria I have only some starting points to understand, but it would be interesting to come back to it.
The Great Seal of Solomon.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Polyhymnia
Soror
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:20 pm

Re: Reading Circle (Blavatsky: The Secret Doctrine)

Postby Polyhymnia » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:46 am

Damn. That's hanging up in my living room and I never once thought of it in relation to this. You just blew my mind!
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Cerastes
Soror
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 10:31 pm

Re: Reading Circle (Blavatsky: The Secret Doctrine)

Postby Cerastes » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:43 pm

Stanza 4 is the most difficult so far and I needed several anti-frustration chocolate bars to get through.

LISTEN, YE SONS OF THE EARTH, TO YOUR INSTRUCTORS -- THE SONS OF THE FIRE (a). LEARN THERE IS NEITHER FIRST NOR LAST; FOR ALL IS ONE NUMBER, ISSUED FROM NO NUMBER (b).


„The sons of fire“ refers to the solar deities of whom „Shankaracharya“ is the highest.
„Pitris“ are lunar deities and the anechestor or creators of physical men.
„Agnishvattas“ and „Kumaras“ are solar deities although „Agnishvattas“ are also „Pitris“. They made the „inner“ men.

...okay, let me get this straight.
There are lunar Pitris and solar Pitris.
The first created the body and the latter created the (human) mind.
The solar Pitris are higher than the lunar Pitris as they are called “instructors”. This makes sense as the solar deities are “on the throne” (like mentioned somewhere in Fosforos).

The second part of this Stanza says there is neither first nor last. As everything is part of the whole (one number) nothing can be outstanding or higher. As it is usual for people to put a value on every single part of a hierarchy, I understand this as a reminder that the concept of oneness does not allow to exclude or anything. It contradicts, for example, the Christian interpretation that God can exist apart from Satan.
LEARN WHAT WE, WHO DESCEND FROM THE PRIMORDIAL SEVEN, WE, WHO ARE BORN FROM THE PRIMORDIAL FLAME, HAVE LEARNED FROM OUR FATHERS (a).
The primordial seven are the emanation of the sacred four. Logos is the father and the primordial substance is the mother of the “four”.
Primordial Substance → sacred four (mother/father) → primordial seven
-
The deities who refuse to create (or manifest?) are, for example, the archangels described in Christianity.

... rest will follow.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
User avatar
Polyhymnia
Soror
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:20 pm

Re: Reading Circle (Blavatsky: The Secret Doctrine)

Postby Polyhymnia » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:34 pm

Cerastes wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:43 pm

The deities who refuse to create (or manifest?) are, for example, the archangels described in Christianity.

... rest will follow.
I've been poring over this stanza for hours over the course of the last few weeks. Taking it to my favourite coffee shop before work and taking my frustrations out on a chai latte :lol:

I found a chart from Isis Unveiled regarding the Sacred Four (Arba-il) and their manifestations throughout various systems and got this:

Christian: Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Mary
Indian: Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, Nari
Babylonian: Anu, Bel, Hoa, Melitta
Ophite: Sige, Ennoia, Bythos, Sophia
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Aquila
Frater
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Reading Circle (Blavatsky: The Secret Doctrine)

Postby Aquila » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:53 am

Stanza IV
1. Listen, ye Sons of the Earth, to your instructors — the Sons of the Fire (a). Learn there is neither first nor last; for all is one number, issued from no number (b).
The explanations of the septenary hierarchies begin here and Blavatsky describes the sons of fire, the solar deities - The Agnishwatha who are the creators of the inner man and their connection to the lunar deities who are the creators of the physical man. The distinction between two paths of departing of and returning to the physical existence is also outlined here in connection to these deities.

(2) Learn what we, who descend from the Primordial Seven, we, who are born from the Primordial Flame, have learned from our Fathers (a).
Blavatsky returns to earlier Stanzas and explains relatively clearly how we have proceeded to this part of the secret doctrine:
The distinction between the “Primordial” and the subsequent seven Builders is this: The former are the Ray and direct emanation of the first “Sacred Four,” the Tetraktis, that is, the eternally Self-Existent One (Eternal in Essence note well, not in manifestation, and distinct from the universal one). Latent, during Pralaya, and active, during Manvantara, the “Primordial” proceed from “Father-Mother” (Spirit-Hyle, or Ilus); whereas the other manifested Quaternary and the Seven proceed from the Mother alone. It is the latter who is the immaculate Virgin-Mother, who is overshadowed, not impregnated, by the Universal Mystery — when she emerges from her state of Laya or undifferentiated condition. In reality, they are, of course, all one; but their aspects on the various planes of being are different. 
User avatar
Smaragd
Frater
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:27 am

Re: Reading Circle (Blavatsky: The Secret Doctrine)

Postby Smaragd » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:17 pm

Stanza IV.I
Bhagavad-gītā wrote:“I will state the times (conditions) at which devotees departing (from this life) do so never to return (be reborn), or to return (to incarnate again).The Fire, the Flame, the day, the bright (lucky) fortnight, the six months of the Northern solstice, departing (dying) in these, those who know the Brahman (Yogis) go to the Brahman.Smoke, night, the dark (unlucky) fortnight, the six months of the Southern solstice, (dying) in these, the devotee goes to the lunar light (or mansion the astral light also) and returns (is reborn).These two paths, bright and dark, are said to be eternal in this world (or great kalpa, ‘ Age ’ ).By the one a man goes never to come back, by the other he returns.”
From the Western point of view there's strongly satanic message in the Bhagavad-gītā citation as dying from the parts the shadow is cast causes rebirth (slaying the lunar images ie. killing the messenger, we make ourselves lunar gods - the creators of the weight of material existence) for the problem wasn't confronted, while allowing ourselves to die where the light is casted upon releases the dead weight in to the void.

I guess the deities ”Fire, Flame, Day” etc. are the ones further opened on Sloka III.
The Secret Doctrine wrote:”But there are two “ Fires ” and a distinction is made between them in the Occult teachings.The first, or the purely Formless and invisible Fire concealed in the Central Spiritual Sun, is spoken of as “ triple ” (metaphysically) ; while the Fire of the manifested Kosmos is Septenary, throughout both the Universe and our Solar System.“ The fire or knowledge burns up all action on the plane of illusion,” says the commentary.“ Therefore, those who have acquired it and are emancipated, are called ‘ Fires.’ ” Speaking of the seven senses symbolised as Hotris, priests, the Brâhmana says in Anugîtâ : “ Thus these seven (senses, smell and taste, and colour, and sound, etc., etc.) are the causes of emancipation ;” and the commentator adds : “ It is from these seven from which the Self is to be emancipated.‘ I ’ (am here devoid of qualities) must mean the Self, not the Brâhmana who speaks.”
This division to the triple suns an the septenary reminded me of the Tree of Life and how later in the Stanza Blavatsky writes of a similar division regarding the ten Sephiroth. So I guess on an individual level one seeks to purify oneself until the lower Sephiras no more points towards anything.



Stanza IV.II

I find myself easily freezing too much on higher-lower thinking and this Sloka seems to ask for seeing the high in the low & vice versa.
The Secret Doctrine wrote: "Latent, during Pralaya, and active, during Manvantara, the “ Primordial ” proceed from “ Father-Mother ” (Spirit- Hyle, or Ilus ) ; whereas the other manifested Quaternary and the Seven proceed from the Mother alone. It is the latter who is the immaculate Virgin-Mother, who is overshadowed, not impregnated, by the Universal Mystery — when she emerges from her state of Laya or undifferentiated condition."
The Virgin-Mother (who I could speculate to be Anna ie. Anael here) is overshadowed at this point by the forces of creation. I think the mothers role to sort of be there for the baby and distance from the individual self is connected to this mystery. This child is not the Christ aspect, but Adam – the wordly child bursting in to the world with blue eyes. For Adam the feminine principle is Eve who is the world and its attractions – the erotic charge our shadow holds. When these shadows have been all looked through it's time for Eve to rememer her immaculate Mother and to become Virgin Mary who at this point becomes impregnated by the Holy Ghost.
Ervast has written about this Adam-Eve Virgin Mary-Christ movement more elaborately in the second volume of the Christosophia trilogy, but once again I'm sorry to say it's yet to be translated to English. To put it short and hoping my lense doesn't distort Ervasts fine understanding too much, Adam is the rational mind and Eve is the Heart containing all our emotions. These emotions are confronted by bringing the sexes together eventually leading to purified Heart and the revealing of the Immaculate Mother and her pregnancy.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest