The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Postby RaktaZoci » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:43 pm

Please excuse my lateness for replying. I'll try to give some insights on the text at hand in the following:

NOTE: I did not read the already posted comments, only fra Smaragd's presentation, before writing this so that my own views would not be too coloured by those wiser than me. I apologize for the possible repetition and in the case where others consider my presented questions already answered in their previous posts, feel free to let them stand as they are.

First of all, I didn't think the letter was short at all, as Smaragd put it. I think it was actually the longest of the ones we have had up to now? Well anyways, I have to say that I've been focusing in letter no. 4 exclusively here, so I'll comment on the other letters at a later time.

I'll refer to a few parts that appear in the text, mostly since writing about things clears them in my head, personally, but please feel free to comment if opportunity shall rise. Master KH mentions "two crises",
Mahatma Letters wrote:I might say two crises — one, the Society's, the other for Tibet.
the other of which seems to refer to the possible Russian invasion to Tibet, and the other being the matter within the T.S. as discussed here, more prominently the forming of the A.I.B. (Anglo-Indian Branch). Have I understood correctly?

KH also refers to "Mr Hume's offer" in:
Mahatma Letters wrote:I had gone personally to our chief to submit Mr. Hume's important offer,
Is their any knowledge amongs the brethren of the nature of this offer?

On the mention of HPB's plea
Mahatma Letters wrote:"Olcott has raised the very devil again! . . . The Englishmen are going crazy. . . . Koot Hoomi, come quicker and help me!"
I was wondering to what exactly is this referring to? Could this "The Englishmen are going crazy" refer to the incident Smaragd was describing already, OR could this have something to do with his (Olcott's) temperament, as Smaragd also brought up, OR could this refer to the issue discussed later in the letter, that he (Olcott) could have volunteered to be the nominal representative to the A.I.B. and thus get HPB furious? Or maybe I am completely lost and this refers to some completely different series of events..? :D

Also, call me a brute, but I didn't quite catch KH's allegory to:
Mahatma Letters wrote:"..our friend is not one to cause her mind to reflect the philosophical resignation of Marcus Aurelius.
Can someone enlighten me on this..?

If I understand the argument (between Sinnett and the forming of the A.I.B. and the T.S.) correctly, Sinnett would want the new branch to work completely independently and the T.S. saying that they (AIB) cannot be chartered unless they follow the general rules of the T.S. It's not completely clear to me why they (AIB) would insist on doing so, but atleast I see KH by "Rule 9" referring to:
Global theosophy wrote:"9. Each Section shall have autonomous jurisdiction within its pre-scribed geographical limits, subject to the terms of the Constitution and Rules of the Society, as herein prescribed."
This sentence also puzzles be slightly:
Mahatma Letters wrote:It is true that the married man cannot be an adept, yet without striving to become "a Raja Yogi" he can acquire certain powers and do as much good to mankind and often more, by remaining within the precincts of this world of his.
Maybe someone wiser could interpret it a bit more and open its meaning..?
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Postby Smaragd » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:10 pm

RaktaZoci wrote: First of all, I didn't think the letter was short at all, as Smaragd put it.
I referred to the Letter No. 143, which is the next one if you go by the navigation system of the online version. In my physical version the next letter was also the No. 143, although it was numbered as No. 4 in it. There seems to be defferences in pressings. Which one should we follow?
RaktaZoci wrote:On the mention of HPB's plea
Mahatma Letters wrote:"Olcott has raised the very devil again! . . . The Englishmen are going crazy. . . . Koot Hoomi, come quicker and help me!"
I was wondering to what exactly is this referring to? Could this "The Englishmen are going crazy" refer to the incident Smaragd was describing already
This enters to the area of speculation, but after inspecting the three letters it seems to point to the stolen letter case, the incident I described. More accurate information would be much appreciated!
RaktaZoci wrote:Also, call me a brute, but I didn't quite catch KH's allegory to:
Mahatma Letters wrote:"..our friend is not one to cause her mind to reflect the philosophical resignation of Marcus Aurelius.
Can someone enlighten me on this..?
To me it points to Blavatskys habit of giving too much attention to small minded detractors. If my memory serves me right, in Isis Unveiled she raves on and on about the ill words her enemies spout. Ofcourse legitimate arguments are to be taken seriously, but when it's starts to get personal it's better to let it be.
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Postby Nefastos » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:48 am

Smaragd wrote:There seems to be defferences in pressings. Which one should we follow?


At the end of each letter there is link to the next letter as they have been numbered in the first editions, and also in this online version. After that, there can be secondary links to other letters which, even though they present chronological order, are like bonus texts to us: we can discuss them too, but the main focus is in the letters that follow the numerical order.

RaktaZoci wrote:I was wondering to what exactly is this referring to? Could this "The Englishmen are going crazy" refer to the incident Smaragd was describing already


Yes, she seems to be referring to Olcott's once again enthusiastic but tactless act of publishing people's names in a newspaper, telling that they can give their testimony about the occult phenomena without asking their permission first.

RaktaZoci wrote:
Mahatma Letters wrote:I had gone personally to our chief to submit Mr. Hume's important offer,

Is their any knowledge amongs the brethren of the nature of this offer?


There will be quite a lot of talk about A.O. Hume later in the letters. This might be the same incident that KH later refers, if memory serves me right, to Hume giving the Tibetan masters an opportunity to be tested scientifically, and should he found their magic abilities valid, he would personally give a positive statement to the academic world. I also seem to recall KH relating how his own master, the chohan, started to laugh so hard that he actually laughed himself to tears.
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Postby Yinlong » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:10 am

The fifth letter starts with K.H. apologising Sinnett has gotten the impression (via H.P.B.) that K.H. would be overall against the formation of another, the Anglo-Indian branch of Theosophical Society. Actually, K.H.’s attitude towards H.P.B. is sometimes quite humorous. For example, he ends his apologies towards H.P.B.’s misleading words for Sinnett by saying: “…but this is chiefly my own fault, as I often neglect to give her an extra rub over her poor sick head…”. K.H. explains that his message was specifically to abandon the ideas of forming the society with Hume, not to abandon the idea totally. K.H. lets Sinnett also read Hume’s original letter to K.H. and K.H.’s reply to Hume. K.H. probably thinks this will let Sinnett understand better his opinion, which is not favouring Hume. We will visit these two letters if or once we progress to letters 98 & 99, so I will not cover them here in detail, but for those not interested in reading the related letters yet, I’ll just explain very shortly the context of the two letters: In his letter Hume explains his scepticism, doubts of legitimacy and personal views on K.H.'s brotherhood and why he doesn’t believe in the requirement of their secrecy - and him obeying their orders. Hume continues to criticize the publication of Simla phenomena in the newspaper, and tells his views on few other things. It is a quite long letter and admittedly his tone is in many ways arrogant, and definitely not understanding - even though he tries to explain it is not the case and K.H. misunderstands him. Personally, Hume to me seems very much more a product of his time (compared to Sinnett for example). In K.H.’s reply that comments Hume’s letter, K.H. has a fairly very satirical tone, even ridiculing Hume’s persona and reasoning.

The second part of the letter contains K.H.’s remarks on how then everyday English talk contains strong prejudices. For example, if somebody says “a foreigner but a gentleman” it contains the notion that most foreigners are not considered worthy, etc. Also, it seems that here - even though K.H. doesn’t say it directly - I do get the feeling that K.H. assumes that Hume’s attitude towards his brotherhood might raise from a sort of racist and hypocritical thinking, and Hume is not realising his underlying personal attitudes. Nevertheless, to K.H. Hume’s personality seems unfitting to continue cooperation. As a side note, perhaps reflecting personally the late 19th century attitudes, where racial and social prejudices in everyday talk was considered very common and normal, the notion of its repulsiveness is a good reminder for us regarding some late events and unfortunate progression here in current-day West. Perhaps it is another kind of good reminder that even though we might consider ourselves very open minded, some phrases we use might still affect our thinking unconsciously. Later in this part - I believe at least partly humorously - K.H. promises if he presents himself in physical or any other form in front of Sinnett, he promises to smell good and look decent (even though he cannot promise the same from other his brethren). Also, he mentions three other English who have been in contact with the brotherhood, according to the Theosophy wiki, one not mentioned might be Captain Seymour, who was a wealthy man who abandoned his Western ways and became a yogin.

In third part there is a reference to one more proof of occult phenomena. This is about how K.H. obtained Sinnett’s letter. To proof the delivery of the letter by occult means and to show Sinnett K.H.’s powers, he telegraphed Sinnett that he could see the dates of the telegraph and the letter - and how it was impossible for the message to travel 200km with any other than occult means. At the moment of receiving the letter, K.H. was traveling in current day Pakistan in a train to meet H.P.B. However, Sinnett hadn’t yet obtained the handwritten copy of the telegram, so he probably at this moment was unaware of the significance of this part.

The fourth part deals with the public writing of the previously mentioned events at Simla. Here K.H. comments Olcott’s eagerness to publish the proof, which caused quite a stir. K.H. suggests that if Sinnett had published the events first (which he didn’t and hence Olcott rushed to publish them) - then the names of the participants would not have been published either and the negative twist would have been probably avoided.

Then K.H. proceeds again to comment Hume. He brings fourth his apparent arrogance and shows how his way of thinking won’t lead to learning anything practical in occultism. With his kind of attitude he is left to dwell only the theoretical side of things. K.H. also comments that the opinion is not only his - but also his master’s - here referred as the Sharon of Than-La - who has come into this conclusion - and his opinion is not likely to change. He also kind of implies that Hume’s aspirations should be in more earthly matters - where he is also considered to be more proficient, here quoted “such a state of mind offers little attraction…”. Though, this seems to contain peculiarly satirical tone too.

In the third last part of the letter, K.H. actually shows very encouraging words towards Sinnett. First he comments that even though Sinnett’s aspirations might be moved by (partly) egoistic principles, he nevertheless is able to admit it without making any excuses or trying to hide those feelings into hypocrisy. He directly says that Sinnett has far more chances than Hume to progress on his studies of the occult. I personally like this part - the message is fairly clearly that one must be persistent, gather like-minded (but not necessarily similarly thinking, concentrating on the power of mutual effort) people around, and things will follow eventually and naturally. I’d like to quote especially this part because I find it both beautiful and heartening:
But I say — try. Do not despair. Unite to yourself several determined men and women and make experiments in mesmerism and the usual so-called "spiritual" phenomena. If you act in accordance with prescribed methods you are sure to ultimately obtain results. Apart from this, I will do my best and — who knows! — Strong will creates and sympathy attracts even adepts, whose laws are antagonistic to their mixing with the uninitiated. “ In addition, I think K.H. especially highlights the dynamism and importance of having differently thinking people united together, this part resonated strongly with my mind when reading:
…an association of "affinities" of strong magnetic yet dissimilar forces and polarities centred around one dominant idea, is necessary for successful achievements in occult Sciences”, and even continues: “What one will fail to do — the combined many will achieve.” I believe here’s a very important lesson for any organisation. A group of too similarly thinking people - without noticing - might easily become blind for certain things. Then maybe more in context of a brotherhood or any group that would study occult science, the certain magnetic affinity and sympathy is what matters most. Later in this part K.H. assures that Olcott has no right to dictate any orders or interfere with the activity of A.I branch, and Sinnett’s branch should have the necessary autonomy if being part of larger Theosophical Society, where Olcott's role would be as a (nominal) president.

In the last parts of the letter, K.H. continues being encouraging and urges Sinnett to write his book - even offering any help he is able to give. He also suggests Sinnett should start correspondence with Lord Lindsay in England, which is referred in few other further letters. K.H. also comments that H.P.B. is currently in fragile state and asks the Sinnetts to be kind to her whether she decides to come visit them. Also, he mentions - or maybe warns - that - at least in her current state - H.P.B. might not be of use for any practical explanations of occult phenomena to the A.I. branch.
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Postby Nefastos » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:24 pm

In addition to brother Yinlong's thoughts, to which it is easy to join, I would also like to point out how in the letters there is also more technical occult information excavatable. For example, in this letter there is some talk about the teacher-student -relationship (both Blavatsky's with her master and KH's with his, when he says, "I am but a slave of my masters"). Also, the method of producing the letters is discussed twice:
KH wrote:abstracted by our special osmosis
KH wrote:Besides, bear in mind, that these my letters, are not written but impressed


Also Blavatsky is called an "astral postman" in this regard, how she usually (not in this particular case though) plays the role of the middle man to channel the messages. KH refers to the process of creating the letters not with a pen but via occult precipitation. These apportation phenomena of actual physical condensation (be it of colour tincture or whole objects; both methods were used) were a topic of much more interest back in those days, as they are a very important part of magic's practice & metaphysics both.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Postby RaktaZoci » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:20 pm

I'll write a more lengthier post as soon as I can find the proper time. Until then, please ladle deep on the alredy presented comments! :)
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Postby Yinlong » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:41 pm

Nefastos wrote:In addition to brother Yinlong's thoughts, to which it is easy to join, I would also like to point out how in the letters there is also more technical occult information excavatable. For example, in this letter there is some talk about the teacher-student -relationship (both Blavatsky's with her master and KH's with his, when he says, "I am but a slave of my masters"). Also, the method of producing the letters is discussed twice:
KH wrote:abstracted by our special osmosis
KH wrote:Besides, bear in mind, that these my letters, are not written but impressed


Thank you brother Nefastos for pointing out these details! They are very interesting indeed. I think this fairly strict - or even authoritarian - teacher student relationship is probably something that mostly shocked Hume. If you allow me to caricaturize the situation, Hume seems to have had in mind some casual, philosophical conversations with the mahatmas and the brotherhood while sipping afternoon tea with other fellow (upper class) Englishmen - and K.H. quite bluntly expresses this is not going to be the case here. Especially having K.H. and the brotherhood to have some practical authority over Hume (and his countrymen) is something he nevertheless cannot think of. This probably explains why K.H. writes in the second part (which comments Hume and his racial prejudices etc.) "Few, if any — (of course with such exceptions as yourself, where intensity of aspirations makes one disregard all other considerations) — would ever consent to have "a nigger" for a guide or leader, no more than a modern Desdemona would choose an Indian Othello nowadays." Of course, this style of organization and leadership is still prevalent in modern-day India, where managers' or leaders' orders are rarely questioned etc. So it can be seen and studied in a larger cultural (clash) context as well.

While reading the letters this far I've been also thinking the rank or role of Koot Hoomi in his fraternity and what kind of organization we are given glimpses of. Probably we'll get clearer picture reading further we continue with the letters, but sometimes K.H. just refers himself to be just one of the many who's being assigned to be in contact with Theosophical Society - so giving impression of some kind of cultural attaché - if you will :) Then again, there are references that he seems to have clerks all over India to do minor tasks like write or impress letters for him etc.

I'm not acquainted with astral postal services, but these details and descriptions about how messages are telepathically transferred (sometimes like "stones from a catapult" :) ) - are indeed interesting.
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Postby Sothoth » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:31 pm

Few, if any — (of course with such exceptions as yourself, where intensity of aspirations makes one disregard all other considerations) — would ever consent to have "a nigger" for a guide or leader, no more than a modern Desdemona would choose an Indian Othello nowadays. The prejudice of race is intense, and even in free England we are regarded as an "inferior race." And this same tone vibrates in your own remark about "a man of the people unused to refined ways" and "a foreigner but a gentleman," the latter being the man to be preferred. Nor would a Hindu be likely to have such a lack of "refined ways" disregarded in him were he "an adept" twenty times over again; and this very same trait appears prominent in Viscount Amberley's criticism on the "underbred Jesus." Had you paraphrased your sentence and said: — "a foreigner but no gentleman" (according to English notions) you could not have added as you did, that he would be thought the fittest. Hence, I say it again, that the majority of our Anglo-Indians, among whom the terms "Hindu" or "Asiatic" is generally coupled with a vague yet actual idea of one who uses his fingers instead of a bit of cambric, and who abjures soap — would most certainly prefer an American to a "greasy Thibetan." But you need not tremble for me. Whenever I make my appearance — whether astrally or physically — before my friend A. P. Sinnett, I will not forget to invest a certain sum in a square of the finest Chinese silk to carry in my Chogga pocket, nor to create an atmosphere of sandal-wood and Kashmir roses. This is the least I could do in atonement for my countrymen.
I chuckled a bit. It seems KH is humorously making fun and needling fraternally Sinnett about racial prejudices the British people have of other races. By the way, I do think racial prejudices have reduced in the Western world since those times, although they are still there. Other races have equal rights in most Western countries, which wasn't the case over one hundred years ago.
We will not discuss, at present, whether your aims and objects are so widely different from those of Mr. Hume's; but if he may be actuated by "a purer and broader philanthropy," the way he sets to work to achieve these aims will never carry him beyond pure theoretical disquisitions upon the subject. No use now in trying to represent him in any other light. His letter that you will soon read — is, as I say to himself, "a monument of pride and unconscious selfishness." He is too just and superior a man to be guilty of petty vanities; but his pride climbs like that of the mythical Lucifer; and, you may believe me — if I have any experience in human nature — when I say, that this is Hume — au naturel. It is no hasty conclusion of mine based upon any personal feeling, but the decision of the greatest of our living adepts — the Shaberon of Than–La. Of whatever question he touches his treatment is the same: a stubborn determination to make everything either fit his own foregone conclusions or — sweep it away by a rush of ironical and adverse criticism. Mr. Hume is a very able man and — Hume to the core. Such a state of mind offers little attraction, as you will understand, to any of us who might be willing to come and help him.
I seems Hume had one Achilles' heel on the path of occultism - it was his pride (in a misleading and stubborn way), of course there is positive Luciferian pride too.
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Postby Nefastos » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:12 pm

Onwards to letter 6, Allahabad ~December 10th, 1880.

This letter was not extremely long (three pages in my printed book version) but I consider it as very interesting & important. It starts with some more details about the letter producing process, then proceeds to the attitude of the rational but narrowsighted sceptics; and in the last page there are some deeply meaningful thoughts about some future (our present?) time & the wishes of the "masters' masters" briefly mentioned in the last letter.

About the so-called precipitation process (of producing the letters via "magic" – the name that theosophists & their teachers are often reluctant to use):

KH wrote:For, whether I "precipitate" or dictate them or write my answers myself, the difference in time saved is very minute. I have to think it over, to photograph every word and sentence carefully in my brain before it can be repeated by "precipitation." As the fixing on chemically prepared surfaces of the images formed by the camera requires a previous arrangement within the focus of the object to be represented, for otherwise — as often found in bad photographs — the legs of the sitter might appear out of all proportion with the head, and so on, so we have to first arrange our sentences and impress every letter to appear on paper in our minds before it becomes fit to be read. For the present, it is all I can tell you. When science will have learned more about the mystery of the lithophyl (or lithobiblion) and how the impress of leaves comes originally to take place on stones, then will I be able to make you better understand the process. But you must know and remember one thing: we but follow and servilely copy nature in her works.


Note especially the first sentence. It is not much discussed in these letters, but there is also the factor of how the "scribe" (adepts's pupil or "chela") in question receives the message and how s/he puts it forth: there can be accurate wordings and/or ideas amidst the scrambled ones. (Remember the other letter's mention of Blavatsky not being able to play the part of the "astral postman" at the moment.) In all occult work done for the masters, the same implies. That there is some great idea in the writings of some such "scribe", for example, does not mean that the whole package has been carried intact "from the Himalayas" (or wherever). The student must understand – either consciously or technically, e.g. when the letter is being transferred word by word – every detail to be able to channel it properly. Also, in very rare cases such a "channelling" in form is actually needed or wanted.

KH wrote:My dear friend, I have my "proprietors" also. For reasons best known to themselves they have set their foot upon the idea of teaching isolated individuals. I will correspond with you and give you proofs from time to time of my existence and presence. To teach or instruct you — is altogether another question. Hence to sit with your lady is more than useless. Your magnetisms are too similar and — you will get nothing.


Underlining mine. The first is important thing to remember when thinking about esotericism. It is always working towards the world (unless one is on a solitary Pratyêka path which neither gives nor asks for counsel, and only tries to die permanently from the planet without giving anything for the collective) but can, ultimately, only be transferred in soul and not objectively. Anything that is "proven" objectively is by definition exoteric.

Also, it is important to note that the "too similar" magnetisms cannot function to form a fruitful group for magic (as in here, seeking magical guidance from above). Students must be different at the same time when they are ethically bound by the same spiritual ideal. Like the battery needs its magnetic poles to function, energetically/temperamentically too similar students cannot achieve much. (More of this can be read from Blavatsky's Practical Occultism essay. My Finnish commentary is available in our web page, here. Needless to say, this is one reason behind the Star of Azazel's colour aspect system.

KH wrote:I am a little "too hard" upon Hume, you say. Am I? His is a highly intellectual and, I confess, a spiritual nature too. Yet, he is every bit of him "Sir Oracle." It may be that it is the very exuberance of that great intellect which seeks issue through every chink, and never loses an opportunity to relieve the fullness of the brain, which overflows with thought. Finding in his quiet daily life too meagre a field [---] his intellect bursts the dam and pounces upon every imagined event, every possible though improbable fact his imagination can suggest, to interpret it in his own conjectural way. Nor do I wonder that such a skilled workman in intellectual mosaic as he [A.O. Hume], finding suddenly, the most fertile of quarries, the most precious of colour-stores in this idea of our Fraternity and the T.S. [Theosophical Society] — should pick out ingredients from it to daub our faces with. Placing us before a mirror which reflects us as he finds us in his own fertile imagination he says: "Now, you mouldy relics of a mouldy Past, look at yourselves how you really are!" A very, very excellent man our friend Mr. Hume, but utterly unfit for moulding into an adept.


I suggest we all read these lines as a warning towards that Western mindset where rationality is over-emphasized and every possible movement of intellectual ability in us is seen as something that must be hurriedly followed as God's voice itself. One more reason why the intention, not as much form, is of the utmost importance in occultism. As it is said later in the same letter: "It is not physical phenomena but these universal ideas that we study, as to comprehend the former, we have to first understand the latter."

KH wrote:new institutions of a genuine, practical Brotherhood of Humanity where all will become co-workers of nature, will work for the good of mankind with and through the higher planetary Spirits — the only "Spirits" we believe in. Phenomenal elements, previously unthought of — undreamt of — will soon begin manifesting themselves day by day with constantly augmented force, and disclose at last the secrets of their mysterious workings.


Cf. our brotherhood practices' focus in the Celestial Hymns (for the seven greatest "planetary spirits" or the primary divine archetypes, see Legifer & Clavis Magica).

KH wrote:They [the universal ideas] touch man's true position in the universe, in relation to his previous and future births; his origin and ultimate destiny; the relation of the mortal to the immortal; of the temporary to the eternal; of the finite to the Infinite; ideas larger, grander, more comprehensive, recognizing the universal reign of Immutable Law, unchanging and unchangeable in regard to which there is only an Eternal Now, while to uninitiated mortals time is past or future as related to their finite existence on this material speck of dirt. This is what we study and what many have solved.


This is very important. The "universal now" is nirvâna; that supreme mental state (plane) in which time collapses (or more precisely, expands into an infinite frozen explosion) totally to form a plane in itself.

KH wrote:The Chiefs want a "Brotherhood of Humanity," a real Universal Fraternity started; an institution which would make itself known throughout the world and arrest the attention of the highest minds.


Extremely important to note. And what these "highest minds" are and are not is seen previously in the letter; not the ones with the most formal education, but those alive in spirit, both in intellect, devotion and depth. We can think about the ideal of a Reneissance man, developing and challenging himself in many different fields of science, philosophy, art and so on. These powerhouses of humankind are the ones most interesting to the masters, who mostly seek not specialists but "men" (as said in the beginning of letter 4), that is, well-rounded individualized persons.

These "chiefs" or the masters' masters are those initiated even beyond the adept's (the fifth) or the master's (the sixth) initiation, if we want to add a bit of a technical formality to these deep subjects. (Even the most clever and advanced students in occultism have usually took only one or more of the first fourth initiations.)
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Postby RaktaZoci » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:06 pm

I have read through both of the past two letters (5 & 6), but since I failed to correspond to the latter, I will not do so now either, so that we can concentrate on the topics presented in the most recent letter (letter 6.)

Let me at first express some of my thoughts on the entirety of Master KH's texts so far. It seems that the idea of the universal brotherhood (of Man) is his main focal point and it is easy to understand why. Not alone to consider the racial prejudice which was present in England in the end of the 1800's, but as it exists even today, on our "modern era". Many group possibly have tried to accomplish an agenda such as this (like the UN), but how have they actually succeeded in practice? Not that well, I'm afraid..

On the other hand, it might be difficult to grasp what this complex structure actually even means? I'd say that Master KH has tried here to briefly explain this in his lines:
Mahatma Letters wrote: "It is not physical phenomena but these universal ideas that we study, as to comprehend the former, we have to first understand the latter."
And
Mahatma Letters wrote:"Phenomenal elements, previously unthought of — undreamt of — will soon begin manifesting themselves day by day with constantly augmented force, and disclose at last the secrets of their mysterious workings. Plato was right: ideas rule the world; and, as men's minds will receive new ideas, laying aside the old and effete, the world will advance:"
As I see it, this has here been introduced in a more grander scale, but as we know, it is always reflected, so I think this could easily be adapted as an internal concept also. Of course, I speak with the mouth of a Westener, but I'd see that Western philosophy has become rather interested in these matters in the past century or so, so maybe there is hope, atleast to some extent. Have not we been in pursuit of a system of values, which we could coherently correct, in case of a possible error, and which would be somewhat ethically durable and consistent? Maybe that indeed is the nucleus of the problem, we dig so deeply in theory that we might completely forget that theories must be set to practice or otherwise their meaning vanishes?

As to Nefastos' comments:
Nefastos wrote:
KH wrote:For, whether I "precipitate" or dictate them or write my answers myself, the difference in time saved is very minute...But you must know and remember one thing: we but follow and servilely copy nature in her works.

Note especially the first sentence...
On this I'd like to also emphasis the last sentence, which I think holds a very important line of conduct.
Nefastos wrote: The first is important thing to remember when thinking about esotericism. It is always working towards the world (unless one is on a solitary Pratyêka path which neither gives nor asks for counsel, and only tries to die permanently from the planet without giving anything for the collective) but can, ultimately, only be transferred in soul and not objectively.
This is an important notion. It brought to my mind our recent discussion of the occult path being "selfish" in the extent that its objective is to elevate the individual. But when expressed in a manner as done here, this gets a different meaning.
Nefastos wrote:These "chiefs" or the masters' masters are those initiated even beyond the adept's (the fifth) or the master's (the sixth) initiation, if we want to add a bit of a technical formality to these deep subjects. (Even the most clever and advanced students in occultism have usually took only one or more of the first fourth initiations.)
I'd like to add, that the mentioned initiations (atleast the first five) are discussed in detail also in Nefastos' text The Adept, which will soon be available in English, as it is now in Finnish.
die Eule der Minerva beginnt erst mit der einbrechenden Dämmerung ihren Flug.
-Hegel

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