The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Discussion on literature other than by the Star of Azazel.
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Smaragd
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Post by Smaragd »

The linked topic about Unseen masters and fra Nefastos' blog post about the subject have certainly been a great help with the Mahatma Letters. I was also present at a lecture/discussion where Nefastos used tree as a metaphor of the central lodge with its branches reaching to potential occult societies. Forgive my inadequate rendition of the metaphor, but realising the subject through such organism helped pulling the scattered data together in to a more coherent idea. Now in relation to the Letters, I'm interested where one might place KH and M on this tree. What about the Dhyan Chohans? Ofcourse too rigid patterns of ideas should be avoided, but approaching metaphors more closely can be very enriching. I have to revisit the blog post, since I don't remember the talk about the tidal force too well, and as I read your post about Yin Long I'm kind of already paddling on that thought wave.

I'm also very careful not to name anything concrete as the Unseen Masters, I can only speak that at best there's some connection to something that seems to be integral part of Humanity. And that is, I think, the flashes of the triad above to the triad below. I would also think the adepts and Dhyan Chohans as part of humanity, or actually the most Human beings existing. KH and Morya are mentioned to be some sort of masters and if my memory serves me right some interpretations called them to be aspects of Blavatskys higher self, and they answer to their masters, the Chohans. Anyway, the Chohans, and communication between Blavatskys and KH goes a bit over my head, but the Hieroglyphic key seems to be an integral part of it, and is a great tool keeping a healthy attitude towards communicating with anything found within. Back to Letter 26 again, this quote is really interesting when thinking about the Hieroglyphic keys part in this kind of communication:
Mahatma Letters wrote:One, at least of his seven satellites has to remain behind for two reasons: the first to form the necessary connecting link, the wire of transmission — the second as the safest warranter that certain things will never be divulged.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
Yinlong
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Post by Yinlong »

Ok, maybe at this point is good to put the direct quote here, just in case of occasional reader thinking what the heck these guys are talking about
Nefastos wrote:Let's try with that picture then, shall we?

The human being is like a sign of the Sun, the dot in the middle & a circle surrounding it. The central dot is the invisible Eye or the "I" or the Ego, that moves its gaze in different points of the circle. The circle, in turn, is the time-bound personality, namely, the Ego's interaction with the outside world. The whole circle is our life. "The" life if we identify ourselves with the personality; "a" life if we identify ourselves with the Ego. The Ego-point is the Master, or more accurately, master number one or the "higher self".

Then to Master number three, a divinity. Let's consider that our Sun-circle is not a two- but a three-dimensional model: a sphere, or say, a planet. That spherical planet has its north pole pointing to a certain celestial sign. All the signs are meaningful to all people, but our different "polarities" (temperaments of the Ego) point to the different constellations. Our personal Master is such a divinity which is a closest one to our life in a lesser or greater cycle of time. Although a wise person does revere all the constellations or heavenly bodies equally, even if he personally takes one as his most intimate mentor. (Also, we know that the north star and the "master constellation" linked to it does in fact change every now and then because of the planetary precession. So this master, unlike the first, will change accordingly.)

But the second Master is neither our own polar axis nor the constellation it points to. Rather, if we continue with the same set of parables, we can say that it is our Sun. A visible and rather close (in this case, still human) celestial body, but superior to ourselves. Something that is not only a teacher or a doctor in a Western meaning of a word, viz. a relative authority, but an absolute one.

But yet there is a path open that follows not the Sun, but the Moon as one's esoterical guide. One needs not put his mind to the contemplation of this master to receive a great deal of his blessing. (In this meaning, the Moon path is actually spoken of in the Bhagavad-Gita & elsewhere, & has the meaning of the blog text's "astral" & pratyêka paths.)
Smaragd wrote: I was also present at a lecture/discussion where Nefastos used tree as a metaphor of the central lodge with its branches reaching to potential occult societies. Forgive my inadequate rendition of the metaphor, but realising the subject through such organism helped pulling the scattered data together in to a more coherent idea.
...
I'm also very careful not to name anything concrete as the Unseen Masters, I can only speak that at best there's some connection to something that seems to be integral part of Humanity. And that is, I think, the flashes of the triad above to the triad below. I would also think the adepts and Dhyan Chohans as part of humanity, or actually the most Human beings existing.
Just a thought - but I often tend to say that the the evil kind of doesn't reside in humans, but kind of between humans - meaning their actions and thoughts, which then when aggregated - when talking about any organized group of people - easily takes perverted routes, even though the individual itself even doesn't intend or want anything bad to happen. Many organizations behaving collectively as evil contain many good people in them. I guess the reason why many mystics decidedly want certain isolation around their work, and some become even literal hermits and stay on the fringes of the society or totally flee... Anyways, my point being that could it be thought then - as the total opposite of the "evil within us" - the good glue and fungus around and knit to the aggregated behavior? If so, this would be at least as one aspect I could try to approach...
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Post by Nefastos »

Yinlong wrote:I guess the reason why many mystics decidedly want certain isolation around their work, and some become even literal hermits and stay on the fringes of the society or totally flee...


The "Moon path" (which, in a way, is the Left Hand Path) can, & often should be one's path at some point, unless the student is so extremely lucky that he has found himself in some occult school straight from the beginning. Being a child of some extraordinary enlightened Brahmanas or Kabbalists, for example.

The trick is, in order for the Moon Path to be esoterically valid, it actually demands its follower to be clearly above those that he does not want to follow. We can see what a problem this is, and how most of the supposed Moon Path followers (or let us say, modern Left Hand Path occultists) are quite simply people driven by false pride. The idea of following only's one's own inner master is therefore just a psychological smokescreen behind which one is more free to follow his whims & impressions that come the psychological ego, not from the monadic Ego, the actual inner Master. Confusing personal whims with the voice of the Master has always been, and will always be, the stumbling block in the Left Hand Path. It is extremely hard & time-consuming to learn which is which, and how they do and do not interact.

From the celestial metaphors to the terrestrial ones:

Smaragd wrote:Now in relation to the Letters, I'm interested where one might place KH and M on this tree. What about the Dhyan Chohans? Of course too rigid patterns of ideas should be avoided, but approaching metaphors more closely can be very enriching.


Regrettably, I have no deeper knowledge on botany, so it is a bit hard to zoom in correctly. But let us remember that the part of the tree that we see is formed of trunk & branches, the trunk being like a massive branch in itself, and the branches having smaller branches in themselves, following the Hermetic axiom of the microcosm & macrocosm. These trunk & branches correspond to the "golden chain of Hermes", meaning the initiatory succession. Thus the adepts who are currently in the position of forming esoteric schools might be said to be "meristemic" parts of the tree. Thus the "Mahatmas" of these letters, KH & M, can be said to be the connection point of the fresh branch (theosophical occultism) to the trunk, and the invisible inner "chohans" might be said to "xylem" to their "phloem"? But as said, my ignorance in things biological can easily create confusion here. A tree (particularly banyan tree, which is a bit special) is however a very old metaphor of the occult sciences, and its several trunk-branches, of brotherhoods.

Smaragd wrote:I would also think the adepts and Dhyan Chohans as part of humanity, or actually the most Human beings existing.


I applaud this, verily it is so. We as erring men are only children to true human beings, but as certainly as children will become adult, we will grow to this more stable, more devoted, more responsible humanity, not losing but adding to our personal characteristical nature in the process.

Smaragd wrote:KH and Morya are mentioned to be some sort of masters and if my memory serves me right some interpretations called them to be aspects of Blavatskys higher self


It was much underlined by the early theosophists (like Blavatsky, Olcott, Damodar Mavlankar) that the masters are in the most part incarnated human beings who have physical bodies even though they are not dependent on them but can, if they choose, to walk freely in their "mayavi rupa" or projected likeness. ("Maya" means not only illusion but also "magic", as in created image.) But even though such an interpretation that the masters would be aspects of someone's higher self would be heresy in theosophical doctrine, I think it is a better place to start for a modern student, who is not accustomed to "wizards" in any other context than fantasy fiction. If at some point he comes to conclusion that there might also be a physical aspect to these inner correspondences (Master as his or someone else's higher Self), that is not needed at least from the beginning.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Yinlong
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Post by Yinlong »

Letter No 43 - Received Allahabad, February, 1882. from M to Sinnett

Weirdly there is always some kind of rush when it's my turn but here we go.
M wrote:You will have first to promise me faithfully never to judge of either of us, nor of the situation, nor of anything else bearing any relation to the "mythical Brothers" — tall or short — thick or thin — by your worldly experience or you will never come at the truth. By doing so until now you have only disturbed the solemn quiet of my evening meals several nights running and made my snake-like signature what with your writing it and thinking about it to haunt me even in my sleep — as by sympathy I felt it being pulled by the tail at the other side of the hills.
At the same time mythical Brothers, but here M writing, can be disturbed by unnecessary "calling" (previously it was discussed about the established connection. Slightly related, I remember Blavatsky being in general against disturbing any entities (and not affecting their karma). Well, this is through her mind too, see further comments. However, I think the principle of approaching every entity or being (whether through a person or directly) with a sort of respectful empathy is something to keep in mind in general. Though, at the same time the quote is difficult from the perspective that it pretty much asks for unquestioning devotion. Maybe I just think that since M is working through HPB's brain, HPB feels stressed for other reasons not found on this letter. For some technical difficulties I have currently not being able to do proper research on the backgrounds of this letter. Maybe somebody else can elaborate if necessary. When it comes to these demands about "just trusting without questioning" I agree generally when it comes to faith in a sense, but at the same time something about HPB being involved makes my hair tingle a bit. Though, I think I have said enough already about this subject, but still I have to say that Blavatsky's fairly demanding nature echoes much in this text in my opinion. Though, there might be also other reason's why it is so that I am not aware of.
M wrote:...in the best English I find lying idle in my friend's brain
A quite straightforward quote that M is working through HPB's brain.

Well, going forward, I remember Fra Nefastos talking about Hume's bird killing habits previously. This quote is quite fiery:
M wrote:His is a bird-killing and a faith-killing temperament; he would sacrifice his own flesh and blood as remorselessly as a singing bulbul; and would dessicate yourself and us, K.H. and the "dear old Lady" and make us all bleed to death under his scalpel — if he could — with as much ease as he would an owl, to put us away in his "museum" with appropriate labels outside and then recount our necrologies in "Stray Feathers" to the amateurs.
However, there is important emphasis on whats inside and outside of somebody: The outside Hume is as different (and superior) from the inside Hume, as the outside Sinnett is, different (and inferior) to the nascent inside "protege."
M wrote:Sahib: try to look inside boxes for jewels and do not trust to those lying in the lid.
Funnily, this reminds me of the scene in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: In any case, there is quite a lot talk about Hume's superficial nature and attitudes. However, M kindly admits that Sinnett is progressing after all.
M wrote:If you cannot be happy without phenomena you will never learn our philosophy.
This is like a current I often find among others, but especially fra Obnoxion mentioning casually, nevertheless, very profoundly at the same time here on the forums.

Further remarks:
M: I did not call you a chela — examine your letter to assure yourself of it
So, this can be probably taken at least as a deductive detail on Sinnett's progress and perhaps personal assumptions(?)
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Post by Nefastos »

Growing conversation about Imagination & Eidetic Vision has been split to a thread of its own.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Post by obnoxion »

Nefastos wrote:Growing conversation about Imagination & Eidetic Vision has been split to a thread of its own.
Thank you!
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Post by Nefastos »

Letter no.44, from Morya to Sinnett. Allahabad, February 1882.

Koot Hoomi is back in business, but since Sinnett's letter has been addressed to Morya, the latter replies. Possibly for the last time, as he hints. This short letter is very interesting, as it spells quite clearly the relationship of the "Masters" to Theosophical Society. Underlining mine:

M wrote:As we are not likely, worthy Sir, to correspond very often now — I will tell you something you should know, and may derive profit from. On the 17th of November next the Septenary term of trial given the Society at its foundation in which to discreetly "preach us" will expire. One or two of us hoped that the world had so far advanced intellectually, if not intuitionally, that the occult doctrine might gain an intellectual acceptance, and the impulse given for a new cycle of occult research. Others — wiser as it would now seem — held differently, but consent was given for the trial. It was stipulated, however, that the experiment should be made independently of our personal management; that there should be no abnormal interference by ourselves.


Morya frankly tells that Western occultism has failed to advance to its next phase, the one which would have enabled it to benefit from the knowledge of adeptual masters & studied under their tutelage. This acceptance of the occult hierarchy and "elder brethren" would have been "a new cycle of occult research". Even though it was anticipated to fail, the "trial" was given for the Theosophical Society, but it was failed.

Some of the later New Age devotees might say that hallelujah, they made what the TS could not, establishing the "Master cult" in new occultism. Well, no. Morya here explicitly says that the effort was made to "gain an intellectual acceptance", and that has never been accomplished. All the ideas of so-called superhuman evolution has from that day resulted escapist fantasy entertainment at best, extreme violence in industrial scale at worst. My personal claim regarding the latter is, by the way, that such torture has been possible because the idea has been trying to break through but has been oppressed (by these lacks of human intuition & intellect that are mentioned in the letter, and also by the lack of real pride & humility in the modern culture, I'd add), rather than such an idea being the reason of said horror, as it is nowadays usually suggested. But onwards...

M wrote: In a few more months the term of probation will end. If by that time the status of the Society as regards ourselves — the question of the "Brothers" be not definitely settled (either dropped out of the Society's programme or accepted on our own terms) that will be the last of the "Brothers" of all shapes and colours, sizes or degrees. We will subside out of public view like a vapour into the ocean. Only those who have proved faithful to themselves and to Truth through everything, will be allowed further intercourse with us. And not even they, unless, from the President downward they bind themselves by the most solemn pledges of honour to keep an inviolable silence thenceforth about us, the Lodge, Tibetan affairs.


A few noteworthy things to add:

– The period of probation was seven years long.
– After the failed attempt the "Brethren" (of the Central Lodge) will disappear once more & actual first hand knowledge of them will become a closely guarded secret, until a new attempt will be succesfull in the future.
– Morya himself uses the name "Lodge" for the Himalayan central lodge.
– And that its Work is joined with "Tibetan affairs". This brings to mind one theory (or accentuation) about the adepts, given by Mikael Niinimäki in his thesis & book, that the "Mahatmas" had active political interests according to which they acted from the court of Dalai Lama. I say accentuation, for we clearly see from the letters that such a political agenda was a fact, and KH acticely sought independence for India. (Which later succeeded with the aid of efforts of Gandhi, who also had had theosophical inspiration.)

As a sidenote, the mention to "Ernest" near the begining of the letter refers to the by then usual spirit guides of the mediums, who believed that their "familiar spirits" were benevolent ghosts of human beings. Which, said the theosophists, is not so, but the spirit guides are more like conglomerates of subhuman elemental energies & residues.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Post by Yinlong »

Thank you again especially giving a lot of context and depth! The plot indeed thickens... With the commentaries this is like reading a thriller sometimes.

I really liked this quote, at least now it resonates well - and has been added to my personal quote storage and vocabulary:
Nefastos wrote:...conglomerates of subhuman elemental energies & residues.
Truly referring to the entirety of your post and especially to the last notes, today it really seems we're going to learn again certain lessons the hard way. Nevertheless (and yes, I meant all the news, tensions around the world, lunatic leaders, sheepish men and women in power etc.), weirdly lately I have had more trust in humanity and life than ever before.

As a side note, I finally got Perttu Häkkinen & Vesa Iitti: Valonkantajat (which has been this far pretty good summary of the more esoteric / occult Finland). Especially reading more of (practically Master) P. Ervast, I have also gained more depth to understand theosophy culturally and historically. I really hope for international brothers and other readers that it becomes available in English some day.
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Post by obnoxion »

I will do the 45th letter by tomorrow. Apologies for the delay!
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (Reading Group)

Post by obnoxion »

Last time I did one of these letters, it dealt with KH' retreat. It is a nice coincidence that now, in the 45th letter, he is back. The date is February, 1882, and KH mentions that the New Year's celebrations are over. He must speak of 15 day festival of Losar, that parallels Chinese and Mongolian New Year, celebrated usually circa february/march according to Gregorian calendar. It was originally an ancient Bön celebration held at the Winter Solstice, which was first merged with a harvest feast and later Gelugpa reformers syncronized the celebration with Chinese customs.

It seems quite understandable that KH's thoughts would dwell on the Buddhist concept of no-self, and on the great virtue of patience. This reminds of a hermetic axiom, mentioned by the archetypal psychologist James Hillman in one of his books - "our souls are found from our patience", or something like that. Anyway, I suppose that such a man as KH - especially after his retreat - would ensoul rather a quality of patience than a sense of seperate self. As KH himself wrote: in the end, your Karma is your real personality.

A.P. Sinnet has now his feet firmly on the path, and KH reassures him that there are no obstacles ahead, unless mr. Sinnet arranges them by his own actions. Of what such actions might be, KH gives as example the few careless words in a letter, that had so wounded the vanity of Stanton Moses, that these would result in the perishing of the Theosophical Society by being slowly overtaken by the Society for Psychic Research.

But though not a chela nor a protege as yet, Sinnet is said to have crossed the line inside the circle of the Adepts influence, and one could say there has been established a magnetic sympathy between a man and a star. In other words, a permanent link between APS and KH has been established. The term "lay-chela", described by Blavatsky in her article "Chelas and lay-chelas", will be used by KH of APS's "status" in later letters.

So in the end we are back to patience. For it is little else than patience in temperance that is asked of mr Sinnet by the Adepts. And the Theosophical society should survive in name until new people of substance will enliven its forms sometime in the future. One almost gets a feeling like Sinnet is here a little Noah, being wished a safe voyage amid a heavy rain, inside the floating temple of Theosophical Society. The pure heart, the gradually developing will and the cheerful confidence - the thathagatic glow - of the captain shall be the Stella Maris.

Anyway, if I have understood the situation correctly (and I sometimes find it difficult to follow the timeline of these persons in the letters), the relationship of APS and KH has deepened in mutual and individual levels.

Of the people mentioned in the letter, the only new name is "the Young Portman", whose identity seems to remain a mystery. More interesting, however, than Portman's identity would be KH's remark that there is a difference between monk/lama, and the living "lha"/Brother.

I would like to say a special thank you for all you guys in the readng group, for keepin it so interesting in my absence. It was sooo exciting to read your posts!!!
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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