book of sitra achra standard edition

Discussion on literature other than by the Star of Azazel.
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Seeker666
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book of sitra achra standard edition

Postby Seeker666 » Mon May 05, 2014 5:22 am

Does anyone have any idea where I can buy this book?
Is anyone offering it for sale? Ebay is just full of sellers who are trting to sell it for
9, 000 and up...any help would be greatly appreciated
"Eritis sicut Deus, Scientes Bonum et Malum"- Mephistopheles
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Heith
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Re: book of sitra achra standard edition

Postby Heith » Mon May 05, 2014 5:08 pm

I think as Ixaxaar makes so small quantities of prints you are not likely to find it for a decent price as I believe it sold out before it was even printed. And as people know they can ask repulsive sums for this sort of books once they sell out you are not likely to find it cheaply anywhere. Haven't personally read the book but have seen a physical copy which a friend offered to borrow to me, but I opted out for another book and borrowed that instead as it was rune-related :)

Good luck with the hunt though!
Zauberer
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Re: book of sitra achra standard edition

Postby Zauberer » Tue May 27, 2014 5:06 am

Seeker666 wrote:Does anyone have any idea where I can buy this book?
Is anyone offering it for sale? Ebay is just full of sellers who are trting to sell it for
9, 000 and up...any help would be greatly appreciated
A few months have passed since the original post. The situation has "improved" in that the prices at eBay has fallen. A recent auction (http://www.ebay.com/itm/121338861342?ss ... 1423.l2649) at eBay closed at US$375 for the Black Serpent Edition (which is the name given by the publisher for the standard edition) book. Quite often, nowadays, I see this Black Serpent Edition book being sold "Buy It Now" at prices below US$500. Still expensive, no doubt, but it looks like the prices may keep dropping for a while before it rises again.

The deluxe editions, however, still remain expensive, however, and quite unlikely to drop considerably in prices.
swordofapostasy
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Re: book of sitra achra standard edition

Postby swordofapostasy » Tue May 27, 2014 5:55 am

Given the ridiculous prices for books coming from Ixaxaar and Aeon Sophia Press and the like, most people will end up having to settle for pdf versions of such texts.
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Heith
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Re: book of sitra achra standard edition

Postby Heith » Thu May 29, 2014 11:44 am

swordofapostasy wrote:Given the ridiculous prices for books coming from Ixaxaar and Aeon Sophia Press and the like, most people will end up having to settle for pdf versions of such texts.
I would have to agree. There's a sense of elitism in these editions that I dislike. I can understand that one can't really make large quantities of this kind of books, because every publication is a financial risk. But I have a hard time understanding why cheaper options aren't offered. It seems a little unfair that if one doesn't happen to have extra 300 dollars in their pocket, they can't read the book. And I would never pay that kind of a sum for a book I have never even physically seen.
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Re: book of sitra achra standard edition

Postby obnoxion » Thu May 29, 2014 12:15 pm

When it comes to Grimoires, I prefer the old ones by the likes of Moses, Pope Honorius, King Solomon and the Angel Raziel. Those books are dirt cheap in soft covers, but their their substance is absolutelly unparalleled.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: book of sitra achra standard edition

Postby Teratokrios » Thu May 29, 2014 9:53 pm

There truly seems to be some hint of some type of elitism in the occult book "scene". I don't condone thing's like "you have to be a practitioner of the current art to buy this book" (sometimes I understand this process to avoid book scalping), but on some level I understand that were dealing with occult knowledge and even on a practical standpoint it doesn't have to be available in everyone and every format possible.

Daniel Schulke had some interesting point's of their publishing philosophy of Xoanon and Three hand press on this interview from couple years ago:

I think that special editions go usually in pretty outrageous prices, but these books are meant mostly for avid collectors and bibliophiles. The craftsman in me understands and sympathizes the labor intensive work what is put into these items. After reflecting on the size of the prints and the work that it needs to be done, the price doesn't seem very odd after all. Also the normal price range of 30-60€ for a standard edition of a tome is not too high on my opinion.

I resent more the whole "book scalping" business which circles the bookbinding business in a vulture like manner. And let's not forget that many of these publishers are truly running a business, they have to make profit to keep things rolling and that they can produce the quality we usually see in this market.

It just so happened that Aeon Sophia Press published a statement about this aforementioned topic (probably a statement inspired by this very topic) on its Facebook page, which clarifies lot of the points why these books are expensive and why there isn't much of smaller, cheaper print's. For those who might not have a Facebook page, I will post this as a quote here:
Aeon Sophia Press wrote:An explanation about book prices and publishing books:

I read on some internet board that people have trouble understanding why some books...like specialized occult books are offered for sale above average retail price than which you see in your local bookstore.

On top of that, people ask why not a 'cheaper' version is also offered.

A number of aspects play a major role when it comes to publishing and SELLING books.

1. The higher the production quantity, the lower the production cost per exemplar.

2. The lower the production cost per exemplar, the easier it is to calculate a healthy profit margin. Also, a low production cost means one can offer the books for a much lower retail price.

3. Producing large quantity only makes sense if 500+ people or more order (pre-order) the book. Usually, book production below the 1000 or 500 copies: means those are high cost book productions.

Small independent publishers need to sell at least 50% to 60% of the total to cover the production cost and other expenses (like royalties, taxes etc.). Margins are tight, bills to be paid...no one is getting rich from selling occult books.

4. What also makes a book expensive, or raises the production cost are the technical aspects of a book. The heavy paper book block, the cover material, the finishing of the book...like silk-ribbon page marker, full color pages, the construction of the book (is it a glued or sewn construction).

5. Why not offering cheaper versions, like a paperback version??

The reason is simple: the number of people who actually BUYS a specialized occult book is Small.

Producing a paperback version only makes sense if at least 1000 people actually pre-order the paperback version.

I repeat: the More people actually buy the book....the better balance between production cost and a low retail price.

I did a test a while ago with a paperback version of "Chthonic Prose & Theory". Less than 50 people actually ordered a copy. Clearly no one else was interested to buy a copy.

And to be clear: "Chthonic Prose & Theory" is an Amazing book!!

6. The prices for Aeon Sophia Press books:

- The smaller 'Monographic Grimoire Series' books are always 35 Euro.
- The standard editions of the larger tomes prices range between the 45 Euro and 55 Euro for a single tome. Cloth bound hardback.
- The deluxe editions standard leather: 199 Euro.
- The special devotee editions: 299 Euro.

The standard editions of the Monographic Series are limited to max 333 copies.

The standard edition of the large tomes are limited to 200 copies.

The deluxes and devotee not more than 50 copies.

7. What happens with the profit?

Most important is to sell large quantity of books, or else it doesn't cover the production cost. When the production cost is deducted...and small amount of money remains, which is used to pay royalties fee to the author, to pay contributors for illustrations, to pay the editor for proofreading and editing the text, pay taxes, pay internet bills etc etc.

In the end, hopefully there is some money left to pay the rent and other bills, buy some food & drinks and have a good time.

8. How does this story apply to Aeon Sophia Press?

Well, we have 3000+ Facebook followers. Of which maybe 5% actually buys a book. That is approx 150 customers.

Everyone else, i have no idea what they are doing....clearly not buying my books.

Seeing the number of actual customers, there is thus no reason at all to increase production quantity...which should result in lowering the price tag on my books.

I hope that this explanation clarifies how the independent book publishing works.

Buying occult books from independent publishers makes sense!

You then support small, often one man run businesses.... you then support the author, the artist, you help keeping the craftsmanship of genuine bookbinders alive.
"Et Ducam tertiam partem per Ignem et uram eas sicut uritur Argentum et probabo eos sicut probatur Aurum."
swordofapostasy
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Re: book of sitra achra standard edition

Postby swordofapostasy » Fri May 30, 2014 4:39 am

Teratokrios wrote:There truly seems to be some hint of some type of elitism in the occult book "scene". I don't condone thing's like "you have to be a practitioner of the current art to buy this book" (sometimes I understand this process to avoid book scalping), but on some level I understand that were dealing with occult knowledge and even on a practical standpoint it doesn't have to be available in everyone and every format possible.

Daniel Schulke had some interesting point's of their publishing philosophy of Xoanon and Three hand press on this interview from couple years ago:

I think that special editions go usually in pretty outrageous prices, but these books are meant mostly for avid collectors and bibliophiles. The craftsman in me understands and sympathizes the labor intensive work what is put into these items. After reflecting on the size of the prints and the work that it needs to be done, the price doesn't seem very odd after all. Also the normal price range of 30-60€ for a standard edition of a tome is not too high on my opinion.

I resent more the whole "book scalping" business which circles the bookbinding business in a vulture like manner. And let's not forget that many of these publishers are truly running a business, they have to make profit to keep things rolling and that they can produce the quality we usually see in this market.

It just so happened that Aeon Sophia Press published a statement about this aforementioned topic (probably a statement inspired by this very topic) on its Facebook page, which clarifies lot of the points why these books are expensive and why there isn't much of smaller, cheaper print's. For those who might not have a Facebook page, I will post this as a quote here:
Aeon Sophia Press wrote:An explanation about book prices and publishing books:

I read on some internet board that people have trouble understanding why some books...like specialized occult books are offered for sale above average retail price than which you see in your local bookstore.

On top of that, people ask why not a 'cheaper' version is also offered.

A number of aspects play a major role when it comes to publishing and SELLING books.

1. The higher the production quantity, the lower the production cost per exemplar.

2. The lower the production cost per exemplar, the easier it is to calculate a healthy profit margin. Also, a low production cost means one can offer the books for a much lower retail price.

3. Producing large quantity only makes sense if 500+ people or more order (pre-order) the book. Usually, book production below the 1000 or 500 copies: means those are high cost book productions.

Small independent publishers need to sell at least 50% to 60% of the total to cover the production cost and other expenses (like royalties, taxes etc.). Margins are tight, bills to be paid...no one is getting rich from selling occult books.

4. What also makes a book expensive, or raises the production cost are the technical aspects of a book. The heavy paper book block, the cover material, the finishing of the book...like silk-ribbon page marker, full color pages, the construction of the book (is it a glued or sewn construction).

5. Why not offering cheaper versions, like a paperback version??

The reason is simple: the number of people who actually BUYS a specialized occult book is Small.

Producing a paperback version only makes sense if at least 1000 people actually pre-order the paperback version.

I repeat: the More people actually buy the book....the better balance between production cost and a low retail price.

I did a test a while ago with a paperback version of "Chthonic Prose & Theory". Less than 50 people actually ordered a copy. Clearly no one else was interested to buy a copy.

And to be clear: "Chthonic Prose & Theory" is an Amazing book!!

6. The prices for Aeon Sophia Press books:

- The smaller 'Monographic Grimoire Series' books are always 35 Euro.
- The standard editions of the larger tomes prices range between the 45 Euro and 55 Euro for a single tome. Cloth bound hardback.
- The deluxe editions standard leather: 199 Euro.
- The special devotee editions: 299 Euro.

The standard editions of the Monographic Series are limited to max 333 copies.

The standard edition of the large tomes are limited to 200 copies.

The deluxes and devotee not more than 50 copies.

7. What happens with the profit?

Most important is to sell large quantity of books, or else it doesn't cover the production cost. When the production cost is deducted...and small amount of money remains, which is used to pay royalties fee to the author, to pay contributors for illustrations, to pay the editor for proofreading and editing the text, pay taxes, pay internet bills etc etc.

In the end, hopefully there is some money left to pay the rent and other bills, buy some food & drinks and have a good time.

8. How does this story apply to Aeon Sophia Press?

Well, we have 3000+ Facebook followers. Of which maybe 5% actually buys a book. That is approx 150 customers.

Everyone else, i have no idea what they are doing....clearly not buying my books.

Seeing the number of actual customers, there is thus no reason at all to increase production quantity...which should result in lowering the price tag on my books.

I hope that this explanation clarifies how the independent book publishing works.

Buying occult books from independent publishers makes sense!

You then support small, often one man run businesses.... you then support the author, the artist, you help keeping the craftsmanship of genuine bookbinders alive.
I was actually one of the people who had asked Aeon Sophia about why they don't offer cheaper versions of their texts, lol

I absolutely understand and totally approve of how alot of these books are quite literally works of art and talismans all on their own and I appreciate these publishers needs to run a business and support the authors. But it just seems to me that money and ultra limited supply shouldn't be a barrier to obtaining the knowledge these books contain.

What if after a book has sold out and is probably not going to be reprinted, the publisher were to release a free pdf version of the text? It would be plain and straightforward, none of the cool artistry of the hardcopy, but at least it would make the info more accessible without really hurting profits.
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Jiva
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Re: book of sitra achra standard edition

Postby Jiva » Fri May 30, 2014 3:05 pm

I guess whether there's an electronic version depends on whether the author or publisher wants their book to become 'cult items'. Personally I hope more publishers take the electronic pdf option in addition to the common standard and higher quality printed books as, for example, Fall of Man seem to be doing now. It was actually low quality pdf versions that motivated my first purchases of the actual books related to the occult.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
Vritra
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Re: book of sitra achra standard edition

Postby Vritra » Fri May 30, 2014 3:10 pm

Dear friends,

I run Aeon Sophia Press. Pleased to meet!

Let me be clear: i will not ever make digital/PDF files available.

The reason for that is simple: the books i produce are Very reasonable priced.....it is not that the retail price i use for my books are much different that other specialized occult book publishers. (Prices between the 35 and 60 euro for a standard edition single copy book.)

Also, the same people asking for free or cheap stuff, are posting on their Facebook pics of them showing their pile of band t-shirts, CDs, LPs, Apple iMac/iBook, the latest Apple iPhone, a new car etc etc etc.

Clearly people have other priorities than buying books, which is fine.

Another reason why i don't want to create digital versions of the book is that a part of the company philosophy is to support local private and/or family owned businesses. All Aeon Sophia Press books are printed and bound in the Netherlands. I will not ever move production of my books to China or similar cheap labour countries.

Also, producing 'Limited Editions' of the standard editions is not a business-model i want for Aeon Sophia Press. If sales would allow me...i would always want to re-print the standard editions as long as there is demand for it.

Printing only 200 copies of the standard edition is ridiculous.....it would be awesome if in the near future more people are interested in the books i publish and i then can increase the production quantity.

I hope my explanation clear things up a bit. My apologies for the bad language, English is not my native language.

If anyone has questions about how i run my book publishing company...then please ask.

I usually respond to questions asked in a polite manner.

Thank you, Johan.


Ps.
Forth coming is a 2-books tome by Matthew Wightman "Lyrics of Lilith, Songs of Samael: The Serpent Siddur of the Nachash El Acher".

A synopsis and Table-of-Contents can be found in the product description.

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