Jung, The Red Book

Discussion on literature other than by the Star of Azazel.
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Wyrmfang
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

Post by Wyrmfang »

Ah, missed my turn again. I´ll do it within the next few days.
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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The First Day

The author seeking the Eastern land, the home of spiritual light, and arrives a canyon by a mountain leading to that land. He faces the bull-horned giant Izdubar who comes from the east and seeking West. The giant is immensely powerful, but once the author lets him know that the sun doesn´t sink in any particular place but floats in the infinite space, he is terrified and collapses. The more he gets to know about the fruits of Western science, such as matches and especially aeroplanes, his desperation only becomes more overwhelming and he accuses the author of poisoning him like a serpent that bites in the heel. The author doesn´t necessarily disagree; the reason why he is seeking the light of the east is, that he felt western knowledge suffocating. But he realizes that as the west is different than the giant thought, so is the east different than he thought. He cannot go to it without regressing into blindless and intellectual infancy. The two are both equally important but in sense mutually exclusive, like the conscious and the unconscious mind, to which Jung actually no doubt primarily refers.

I don´t know can this passage be read as a part of Jung´s general discussion of the east and west, but it seems to be in line with it. While he is a bit essentialist about the "spiritual" east and "materialistic" west, unlike many authors who have similar interests, Jung realizes that there is no simple way to pick up the wisdom of the east while at the same time retaining all the central western characteristics.
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Nefastos
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Wyrmfang wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 9:34 pm
the bull-horned giant Izdubar

Jung's Izdubar–Gilgamesh is not only bull-horned, but also "the bull-man". He is a type to what my last chapter's "green man" has become: the virile force of nature, now partly integrated and more man-shaped. What Jung does with this taurine hero is actually a rite of sacrifice. The whole Red Book is the book of inversion, like a commentary to mysteries given from the side of the challenging opponent. In this case, "sacrificium intellectus" (often mentioned by Jung in his texts) is played on reversal, and intelligence sacrifices the bull. Sadly, this is regression, because such a process has already been accomplised thoroughly enough in paganism (where hecatombs & rites of Garga have been an important part of ceremony in the past, but have since become unnecessary and even harmful). In the end of the chaper, Jung is practically weeping what he has done by slaying the hero for the sake of misplaced honesty. (Too much Logos, as he says: the eternal problem of the Right Hand Path and systematicized forms of spiritualism; p.287.)

The following quote is well-placed in some recent brotherhood discussions, like the one about the chasms between esoteric schools:

Liber Secundus wrote:The outer opposition is an image of my opposition. Once I realize this, I remain silent and think of the chasm of antagonism in my soul. Outer oppositions are easy to overcome. They indeed exist, but nevertheless you can be united with yourself. They will indeed burn and freeze your soles, but only your soles. It hurts, but you continue and look toward distant goals. (p.284)
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Astraya
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Second Day

Author is compelled to find help for Izbubar, and struggling which way he should find it. Izdubar however is irritated by the authors knowledge which he sees as poison and is refusing help at first. Should the author seek help from East or West is a choice that includes spiritual aspects as well as unconscious ones.

Author finds solution by suggesting that Izdubar is actually a fantasy, not real in an ordinary way. Interesting how fast Izdubar accepts this angle of reality, considering how reluctant he was towards author about his knowledge. This solution makes Izdubar light so he can be carried away from a threat of death. Idea, essence, spirit has nonexistent weight of mass. Author is actually using his magical power by making his thoughts affect the physical appearance, like Izdubar was telling him, without believing he could do that.

Author is carrying God, saving him by appreciating him as a figment of the imagination, as a spirit that is to be taken to ones heart, or in a pocket as author describes. Gods power to lighten mans misery is possible when a man understands his essence. When a man is nursing God in his own magical gaze and saving actually himself by saving God.
“There can be no transforming of darkness into light and of apathy into movement without emotion”
― Carl Gustav Jung
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Benemal
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Death

The man encounters the personification of death, at the seashore, the Grim Reaper in a manner of speaking. The man calls him Dark One.

"I know, you are ice and the end; you are the cold silence of the stones; you are the highest snow on the mountains and the most extreme frost of outer space. I must feel this and that's why I stand near you."

Death asks the living man why he is there, where he doesn't belong and the man says it's by chance. Then a large mass of dead people and animals approaches the sea. Also, the plant-life of a dead summer. The sea dissolves the dead into a dark mist. From the sea a new sun is born (again, I feel like there's a lot of symbolism I'm not understanding). Then emptiness and darkness. The man goes into accusatory self-reflection.

"You do not know which devils are greater, your vices, or your virtues. But of one thing you are certain, that virtues and vices are brothers."

It's quite a beautiful tanatological contemplation (I must try again with this book).

"Joy at the smallest things comes to you only when you have accepted death. But if you look out greedily for all you could still live, then nothing is great enough for your pleasure, and the smallest things that continue to surround you are no longer a joy."

The rest I don't understand.
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Insanus
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Did you perhaps take wrong chapter by accident or do we have different copies or something? Death was obnoxion's chapter in february. Also, it seems I missed my turn. Whoops. I'll continue with "Incantations" when I find the images to link to the post, hopefully during this weekend.
With a taste of a poison paradigm
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Nefastos
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Insanus wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:29 pm
when I find the images to link to the post

If you want, I can also scan the pictures you'd like to include.

My own favourites are the Brahmanaspati-serpent (p.54) & Satapatha-brâhmanam kundalinî blast (p.64)...
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Benemal
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Previous chapter presented was "Second Day ". After Dies II came the chapter Death.
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Nefastos
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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Benemal wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:24 pm
Previous chapter presented was "Second Day ". After Dies II came the chapter Death.

Naming of the parts of the Red Book is indeed confusing, but the chapter named Dies II (Liber Secundus capitulum V) is different to the chapter named Second Day (Liber Secundus capitulum IX). The first starts from page 270 (the Reader's Edition page 252) and the second from page 281 (Reader's Edition page 291).
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Benemal
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Re: Jung, The Red Book

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That's annoying. I think I hate the book again now. Which chapter was I supposed to do then? I guess I could take a look at it tomorrow.
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