World in Crisis

Putting together ones life with the modern world.
Kenazis
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Re: World in Crisis

Post by Kenazis »

Benemal wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:49 pm There's an old Chinese saying, that goes something like this: "I pray that you get to live in interesting times".
Yes, I have hear this. And also the version that goes: "Don't pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one"
"We live for the woods and the moon and the night"
Kenazis
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Re: World in Crisis

Post by Kenazis »

Kenazis wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:54 am
Benemal wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:49 pm There's an old Chinese saying, that goes something like this: "I pray that you get to live in interesting times".
Yes, I have hear this. And also the version that goes: "Don't pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one"
Now I googled that and it surprisingly seems to be from Bruce Lee (it seems that all quotes I know comes from Bruce. ...but you surely can choose a worse teacher than him).
"We live for the woods and the moon and the night"
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Insanus
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Re: World in Crisis

Post by Insanus »

Benemal wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:49 pm There's an old Chinese saying, that goes something like this: "I pray that you get to live in interesting times".
I have understood that this is actually a curse? The point being: "I hope everything you love goes to hell" would cause bad karma :)
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obnoxion
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Re: World in Crisis

Post by obnoxion »

Insanus wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:38 pm
Benemal wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:49 pm There's an old Chinese saying, that goes something like this: "I pray that you get to live in interesting times".
I have understood that this is actually a curse? The point being: "I hope everything you love goes to hell" would cause bad karma :)
Yes, I am certain that this is an old Chinese curse.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
Kenazis
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Re: World in Crisis

Post by Kenazis »

obnoxion wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:53 pm
Insanus wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:38 pm
Benemal wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:49 pm There's an old Chinese saying, that goes something like this: "I pray that you get to live in interesting times".
I have understood that this is actually a curse? The point being: "I hope everything you love goes to hell" would cause bad karma :)
Yes, I am certain that this is an old Chinese curse.
Then the Bruce's similar sounding quote is very different by meaning.
"We live for the woods and the moon and the night"
obnoxion
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Re: World in Crisis

Post by obnoxion »

Kenazis wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:15 pm
obnoxion wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:53 pm
Insanus wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:38 pm I have understood that this is actually a curse? The point being: "I hope everything you love goes to hell" would cause bad karma :)
Yes, I am certain that this is an old Chinese curse.
Then the Bruce's similar sounding quote is very different by meaning.
I think this just goes to show how thin line it is between a blessing and a curse.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Beshiira
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Re: World in Crisis

Post by Beshiira »

I saw some stories and pictures of how in the middle of this all, animals (dolphins, boars...) are starting to live more freely in the empty streets and canals of Venice. There is such beauty in this, that I nearly start to cry.

At the same time I am sad and stressed about the uncertainty of how this will turn out for us humans.

I think this is a very telling image. What we've philosophized for a long time suddenly becomes a concrete reality: we truly live in a world of contradiction. It is a nightmare, it has always been, but we in the West haven't had to face it so directly, widely and dramatically for many decades. And more crises will come. The current one will surely change how we see our world (at least for some time), and in the long run this ”awakening” for sure isn't all bad.

But when there are nightmares, there are also good dreams. The latter ones are just as real as the former, even though ”actualizing” those good dreams requires much more effort, especially in turbulent times. I can very well understand why people react strongly, and even overreact , in protecting themselves and people around them (surely I have done that to some extent myself too), and also why people start to think like ”good that we get rid of humans, Hail Gaia, we get what we deserve”. Also I think that (seeming) indifference towards death – or to how other people perceive death – is not a sign of ”esotericism”, nor a sign of ”strenght” etc., but more a sign of the actual meaning of unity not being fully understood. Bluntly said, to talk as if death is not a big issue to me, and shoudn't be to others either, is not that different from saying that all suffering in the world doesn't really matter that much, ”it's just an illusion” or something. Well, sure, it is just an illusion, but at the same time all the suffering is also very very real. And what does this ”esotericism” mean here anyway? If we think that we are somehow on a higher level compared to some ignorant hordes (and who exactly are they, anyway, and who are we to make such categorizations?), is such behaviour somehow esoteric in essence?

I don't believe that death is the end for us, but I too would still like to stick around, if possible. Of course, in the end that decision is not mine to make, and accepting just that in itself is a big step. Global crisis or not. But basically, it's not our job to tell anyone how they should perceive their own life and death.

This is more general pondering than something aimed at anyone here, even if some comments have sparked these thoughts. The abovementioned attitudes just seem to be all around, especially if people are more or less LHP oriented. And often what is probably intended to be a nihilistic, misanthropic übermensch statement, just seems juvenile and defensive to me.

This current crisis is also just starting now, and our initial reaction might be different from what it will be in weeks, months, years to come. Luckily we are so much more than our primitive reactions, our fears, insecurities, inability to act according to our ideals etc.

Thank you for your wise words, Aquila, and thank you Mars for your brief comment which summarizes the most important thing of all:
Mars wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:48 pm My own attitude is that of compassion towards those affected by this or any other upheaval. Catastrophes might be inevitable but that's no reason to surrender to fatalism and indifference towards suffering.
"Ja kun minun kirkkauteni kulkee ohitse, asetan minä sinut kallion rotkoon ja peitän sinut kädelläni, kunnes olen kulkenut ohi.
Kun minä sitten siirrän pois käteni, näet sinä minun selkäpuoleni; mutta minun kasvojani ei voi kenkään katsoa."
Kavi
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Re: World in Crisis

Post by Kavi »

Excellent post Beshiira.

I have been quite devastated recently as this current situation will affect my personal life and I can't plan my future but maybe at the same time it's possibility to try to live on this moment but when this is affecting everyone else too it feels impossible to do.
Talking about sacredness of Death is good topic but seeing news about truckloads of corpses of course makes everyone silent. And talking about death makes one to understand that one does not understand what one is talking about.
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Soror O
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Re: World in Crisis

Post by Soror O »

Because this corona discussion evoked many emotions and thoughts, I have to make myself "clear" once more and open up:

I was only questioning the energy behind this societal reaction (strict restrictions etc.), which to me seems to point towards resistance and fear. In my opinion all costs of this virus are not counted by physical lives lost. Getting cought merely with physical life saving can be narrow-minded and in it's seeming altruism, a form of disquised selfishness. During this conflict, I've given my thoughts - for example - to the countless kids that are mistreated at home and don't have a safer place (the school) to go to. And how long will this last, no one knows. 

In this discussion I've felt misunderstood quite the whole time. Also, I felt that my stance on death was quite triggering to some of you. I admit being triggered myself, (maybe it was a emotional transferation).

Yes, I equal life and death in my experience. I feel that in this discussion it was labeled as being some form of juvenile misantrophy or some other - rather generic - reaction/ defence mechanism. I do not underestimate human suffering or the overall human condition.

But: This great work of uniting the opposites - say for example life and death - is it merely metaphysical jargon which doesn't inevitably have any severe bearing in one's psyche? I'm not claming that I've had it "right" by any means (for God only knows I'm but a fool), but I'm just fucking curious! It is true that "before enlightenment you carry water and chop wood and after enlightment you - carry water and chop wood". But after it, you never carry it like before.

This discussion has been quite odd and profoundly moving. I realized being somewhat outside the "desirable" human experience with my death-talk, even in an esoteric forum. I felt like a sociopath, maybe I am? They who know me, say I'm kind (and an asshole).

Or am I taking this too personally...? Maybe so, (I'm on my moons).

P.S. Disclamer, just in case: My emotions are my own and you are not responsible for them, I just needed to get this out of my system. I
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.
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Cerastes
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Re: World in Crisis

Post by Cerastes »

Wow, this topic seems to cause a lot of attention.

Ave, I think I understand your point and you communicated it much more deeply than me in my rather grumpy and superficial (Probably infantile too?) comment. Actually I allow myself to be a little infantile or playful every now and then. When it comes to me, people should allow themselves much more weaknesses because if they are allowed, they are much easier to overcome. A forbidden weakness causes all kind of subconscious little cracks that will allow other potentially harmful impulses to act out. (Don’t you dare take this personally, I was just publicly speaking to myself here)
There are always misunderstandings in online communication and I really don’t think the critique was directed to you. Death is still a difficult topic, no matter how much we claim to know about it and as such, it is of course polarizing. That said, I like your comments and I find them very thoughtful, even if I don't agree on every point. Don't let those misunderstandings take your motivation to write away. Crisis is an oportunity for growth, right? ;)
-
About the current corona crisis:

There is now a nationwide recommendation for “social distancing”. This means that for the next few weeks, I will only have contact to other people by phone or via the Internet. It should actually be a burden, but it is not. Surprisingly, I feel much closer to my fellow human beings when they are not physically close to me, which of course is paradoxical. Maybe compassion needs some sort of distance. I does not feel like a crisis yet, it is more of a release. I wait until the sun goes down and go out in the forest to run. Nobody does that, so there is no chance to meet other people. In a heavily settled country, it this is a rare luxury. I often thought about moving to a less crowded country.
Dammit, hopefully this does not sound misanthropic. It is not, it actually feels quite peaceful.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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