"Preservation of Seed"

[Nefastos]

I'm currently reading the awesome Linga Purâna, one of the original Shaivite texts (ancient scriptures of the cults of Shiva). As much as I adore the text, chapter eight of the "Yogic zones" (energy centers viz. chakras & their use) once again awakens some serious questions.

There are many interesting points in the chapter, but here I will discuss just one theme: the old instruction of the "preservation of seed", viz. semen & the magical essence of it. As you may know, that procedure is considered to be of great importance in many occult systems throughout the world.

After relating some very deep metaphysical & cosmological symbolism in the former chapters, the eighth chapter proceeds to give us practices like –

Not indulging in sexual intercourse, mentally, verbally or physically [---] Women are always to be avoided. One should stay far off from them. A shrew person views them as he views the corpses. He should have the same attitude in the sexual intercourse with his own wife, as when discharging the faeces and urine on the ground. There should be no attitude other than this. Woman is like a burning coal; man is like a vessel of ghee. He should always avoid contact with women therefore. If we ponder of this, we shall know that there is no satiety in sexual pleasures. Hence, one should practice detached attitude mentally, physically and verbally.

– And so on. The usual stuff we know from the most of old traditions, including Blavatsky's theosophy, esoteric Christianity, & other familiar forms of occultism.

Nowadays, this instruction seems extremelly bizarre, and seems to lead the yogi (occultist) down the very bad path if he is not of some quite rare psycho-physiological temperament. My hypothesis is that this instructions is what was needed in the old times when there was a need of extra energy to be focused & stored in one's body. Nowadays we live in world where the "seed" is plentiful already, for this seed is both the result & essence of light & action.

We live in a world that is almost always bathing in light, which - as the scientists could tell us, I'm sure - messes up with our older type of brain. Or to say it better, it has very quickly changed how our physical brains work. The same goes with activity. We live not only in the "illuminated" (light-filled) world, but also in a world of ceaseless acitivity. In my eyes, the old patriarchal dream of dominance of male virility, namely the constant energy, constant activity, focusing, efficiency and potency have taken over almost totally and become as a monolithic truth for the new global culture. The virtue of unceasing energy & dynamism.

This is, in many ways, very wrong indeed. Things that the old ones had held as archetypical female virtues have in the recent millennia, centuries and finally decades become less and less understandable in many ways. There is no longer virtue in patience, there must be always more virility. Even the modern feminism is in many ways chauvinistic and honors only the archetypically male attributes. Now, I don't mean this absolutely, but as a trend - a part of the spirit of our time. It is already showing extremely interesting signs of collapsing; of becoming so dense that it is finally starting to crumble. One such sign is the rise of the Left Hand Path philosophies, as I have written in Fosforos and elsewhere; for Satanism is not only "Yang" but even more "Yin" (the dark and the Other).

This, however, seems to have brought us also a very real & essential "Luciferian" ("Light-bearing") awakening. Yang, as we remember, is the "sunny side" of nature; the male essence is basically light. This light is, de facto, the male "seed" or energetical semen, which in the older times had to be conserved carefully but which the people in our time mostly have in abundance.

That was my hypothesis in a nutshell. I certainly do not mean to say that it somehow makes the old discussion pointless - that there would no longer be need to think very carefully one's sexual yoga like all the other ways of one's living - but what I really think that the old demands of asexuality will much more likely create terrible problems than they would result in enlightenment. I don't think - although it would be great - that I am the only one who almost managed to destroy both one's physical, astral, mental and eventually almost the spiritual health by following these old instructions, given in Linga Purâna and elsewhere. So, for the benefit of those new age aspirants who are willing to sacrifice anything to reach the initiations (which is the only way that they can be attained) I think it is very important to ponder & decide which instructions should no longer be practiced to the letter.

But what do you think?

[Insanus]

I think the "denial of sexual nature" is essentially focusing the animal passions & needs into a "psychoenergetical magnetic current" in the lack of a more precise term. This sort of "preservation of seed" is not necessarily a life-long thing, but a ritualistic celibacy that can be seen as erotic adoration or even union with the saturnian aspect of the archetypal feminine that creates some energy from seemingly nothing.

To change one's view in a way that sees the hidden sexuality in the mentioned (symbolic or not) corpses & faeces solves the problem of "asexual demands" in my mind. Much like the symbolic sacrifice of one's life. If this sort of vision of love & life in death would/could surround one's life completely it wouldn't make much -if any- difference whether or not there was any sexual intercourse, but that wouldn't mean forced celibacy (or changing one's passions to strictly necrophilous ones) by any means.

EDIT: I suddenly remembered fra obnoxion's article about mortification & melancholy in the Finnish blog mentioning a story where Buddha himself attained enlightenment while having intercourse with his wife & the meditations under bodhi trees & stuff were more like a theatrical scam to show the rest of us how to get rid of earthly attachments.

[Heith]

Interesting points on a difficult subject.

As I am not very read on the topic, but have a grasp of the basic idea my comment here is from a subjective point of view and may border off-topic.

It is my belief that every action is in a way sexual, but this does not mean that every action is erotic. I do not mean this in the way that one would mean reproduction or intercourse either, but as the aim of actions often is to make a change in our surroundings (/lives / ideas etc), we are shifting things and creating movement. So the creation of change, birth of new ideas and so forth, is in my mind, sexual (but not erotic).

When we come to the idea of "wasting" or "preserving seed", the way I would understand this instruction is- a literal sexual act, aka, intercourse releases intense amounts of energy (much like blood magic, actually) which I believe is difficult to control or, never mind the pun, difficult to aim correctly. When a person begins to practise magic, they are learning to control energetic currents and can therefore shift greater and greater amounts of energy or otherwise harness it to their will. It is therefore important to practise caution when engaging in erotic actions, as much energy is involved therein. My guess is, the instruction singles the magician out like they would be on another level- and perhaps their counterpart (in here, their wife) would then consume or "steal" their energy. So this in my opinion is a practise that does not share; for surely, with the right partner none of that energy is "lost". Profane sex is another thing and I don't think it ever ok, magician or not- but to each their own.

But of course, I may very well be wrong on everything I write because I can not know a man's point of view on this act. I also believe that the outcome and effect depends much of the temperament of said person. Overall I think it bad to let go of the things we enjoy too soon- and if someone is a sexual person, they may make this a part of their practise successfully. After all, being sexual is not being dirty or sinful. It is often when we begin to think that it is, harmful problems arise. When one begins to deny themselves certain things, these things become desirable. A good every day example is a strict diet. For sure we will want chocolate or alcohol when we know we aren't allowed to, whereas if we do not put this limitation on ourselves it's much easier to forget that chocolate exists. So this is a little bit like that Insanus wrote:

This sort of "preservation of seed" is not necessarily a life-long thing, but a ritualistic celibacy that can be seen as erotic adoration or even union with the saturnian aspect of the archetypal feminine that creates some energy from seemingly nothing.

But I have to say that I have personally noticed that intercourse (and only intercourse, so courting is fine) eats away from my creativity. When I do not have sex, I am more productive and have more energy to put into my work. I do not feel that this makes me lose anything- it is just something that I have observed, and speaking with some artist colleagues they mention a similar observation. Of the few people I spoke with about this though, I was the one who saw it as a beneficial practise. The others were more prone to frustration & to give in to temptation so to say.

[Insanus]

I have to say that I have personally noticed that intercourse (and only intercourse, so courting is fine) eats away from my creativity. When I do not have sex, I am more productive and have more energy to put into my work. I do not feel that this makes me lose anything- it is just something that I have observed, and speaking with some artist colleagues they mention a similar observation. Of the few people I spoke with about this though, I was the one who saw it as a beneficial practise. The others were more prone to frustration & to give in to temptation so to say.

I think it's a very beneficial practice too & agree with your post fully from a personal point of view also.

Being more productive and having more energy through not having sex is what I meant with "creating energy from seemingly nothing" and being prone to frustration is the impact of that energy's saturnian origin. It's exactly that psychological click of always wanting that which is forbidden that intensifies the creative impulse to manifest the un-manifest. I think it's telling that artists understand this intuitively, because they understand sexuality in the wider (more spiritual) sense...

[Nefastos]

Thank you for the replies! The topic might be a bit too intimate for many people to discuss openly, but that's precisely why I think it's good to hear different kinds of opinions & experiences about the subject. For in one way or another it is close to all of us human beings.

To change one's view in a way that sees the hidden sexuality in the mentioned (symbolic or not) corpses & faeces solves the problem of "asexual demands" in my mind. Much like the symbolic sacrifice of one's life.

Yes. This is also very close to the idea of the book Magna Mater, which aims to put these two polarities of Sex and Death together in a way that would create a constant circulatory movement (and thus, accumulation) of energy.

I suddenly remembered fra obnoxion's article about mortification & melancholy in the Finnish blog mentioning a story where Buddha himself attained enlightenment while having intercourse with his wife & the meditations under bodhi trees & stuff were more like a theatrical scam to show the rest of us how to get rid of earthly attachments.

I too believe that in the true occult texts there are hidden layers for to help different grades of neophytes. Let's take the quite odd parable in the Purânic text I quoted above, the one about the ghee (sacrificial butter) and the flame. Man is warned to go near the flame, for it would melt the butter... but that butter is supposed to be burnt in the sacred rite.

It is said that in the Kali Yuga (the black age when the dharma is very rare & most people wander in almost complete spiritual darkness, the age which we live in now) the most important form of the holy scriptures & practices is tantra. The tantric practices are veiled in allegory and given in obscure speech.

When a person begins to practise magic, they are learning to control energetic currents and can therefore shift greater and greater amounts of energy or otherwise harness it to their will. It is therefore important to practise caution when engaging in erotic actions, as much energy is involved therein. My guess is, the instruction singles the magician out like they would be on another level- and perhaps their counterpart (in here, their wife) would then consume or "steal" their energy. So this in my opinion is a practise that does not share; for surely, with the right partner none of that energy is "lost". Profane sex is another thing and I don't think it ever ok, magician or not- but to each their own.

In other words: Those who are new to the occult world of the magician it is important to learn how to be(come) a person of their own. To copulate like an animal without a second thought would in this stage most likely result in the loss of their higher Egoic intensity & possibilities for advancing further.

Still, I think that following the instructions above to the letter would be extremely bad. Let's think about a situation where our loving spouse or a girl-/boyfriend is advancing us romantically & erotically. If the situation ends up to a situation where ejaculation is like "discharging the faeces and urine on the ground", such sexual union will be devastatingly negative in its psychological atmosphere. Even if we try to hide our ritualistic disgust, in so subtle a meeting as the coitus is, it will create a traumatic effect on both ourself & our partner.

But of course, I may very well be wrong on everything I write because I can not know a man's point of view on this act.

Personally I think that the difference is not so great as the people of the old wanted to think. For where they thought that the physical seed (semen) itself was the essence of magical power, I believe that the actual seed is the energetical flux of it, & it operates much the same both in male & female organisms. Of course there are differences, both physical and most of all cultural --> psychological --> energetical of the second degree, but that the actual "magical organism" of both man & woman are pretty much alike. Both parts are also able to "vampirize" the vitality or their partner, that is not at all a sole privilege of the female sex, whatever the old doctrines claimed. They were too bound to formal, physical interpretations in my opinion, confusing the true seed with the physical semen.

I also believe that the outcome and effect depends much of the temperament of said person.

Indeed, this is the key point. To dismiss an orthodox view for just to create another would be stupid. Even if my hypothesis would be true, there are certainly many different temperaments & situations, each demanding an approach of its own.

Of the few people I spoke with about this though, I was the one who saw it as a beneficial practise. The others were more prone to frustration & to give in to temptation so to say.

I'm not sure I understood this right. Do you refer to some closed practice which aim was to raise the energy with sexual abstinence?

Just to be crystal clear... Of course I too felt I was losing great amounts of energy in the cases where my sexual abstinence failed in those years I was following these instructions of the old. But at the later stages when I understood that I was on a very wrong path indeed, coitus or other sexual practices have not took any of my energy, but on the contrary, increased the whole creativity - both physical & magical. So I'm convinced that in my case the loss of energy felt was psychological & psychological effect only. Even if one has not read the instructions about occult benefit of celibacy, we all share a certain atavistic fear of losing our bodily fluids, and because of the great intimacy of the sexual nature, also feel an understandable traumatic fear towards sexuality at large. Those effects are not easily dealt with, nor should they: the process is indeed sacred.

[Heith]

Being more productive and having more energy through not having sex is what I meant with "creating energy from seemingly nothing" and being prone to frustration is the impact of that energy's saturnian origin. It's exactly that psychological click of always wanting that which is forbidden that intensifies the creative impulse to manifest the un-manifest. I think it's telling that artists understand this intuitively, because they understand sexuality in the wider (more spiritual) sense...

Precisely. I believe that this is what the artist's muse is- as what I have read they are always somewhat unreachable, or lacking a better word, may not be "conquered". Rather the relationship is that of adoration and perhaps even worship on some level, as the muse may manifest the divine or at least so that the artist may see and use this in their work.

[Heith]

Sorry, I was writing when you replied Nefastos, so adding this as well.

Still, I think that following the instructions above to the letter would be extremely bad.

I would say following most instructions to the letter could be rather bad. But yes, I agree- sexual union calls for great care, as it can indeed hurt people quite badly when done wrong. Sadly I have seen some cases where an "occultist" either uses scripture as a justification for what they do, or otherwise believe they are entitled.

Of the few people I spoke with about this though, I was the one who saw it as a beneficial practise. The others were more prone to frustration & to give in to temptation so to say.

I'm not sure I understood this right. Do you refer to some closed practice which aim was to raise the energy with sexual abstinence?

Well, I am not sure "closed" practise is the wording I would choose. It's a little bit difficult to write about this, as it is quite personal. Abstinence is something I have done a few times, and always aimed to use the energies to creating art. To me this choice comes easily because -and this sounds rather strange perhaps- when I have done this, I have been at the absolute peak of my creativity as the creative current, during these periods is a sexual (and erotic) one, because I am inspired by a muse. I guess one could say that these times -which are rare, but they exist- are in a way a sexual practise. So I do not feel that I "miss out" on not having actual physical sex, especially as it dims in comparison. But this of course, probably suitable for my temperament & circumstances only, and completely useless and harmful to someone else.

EDIT: rephrased a sentence to make it more understandable.

[Insanus]

Being more productive and having more energy through not having sex is what I meant with "creating energy from seemingly nothing" and being prone to frustration is the impact of that energy's saturnian origin. It's exactly that psychological click of always wanting that which is forbidden that intensifies the creative impulse to manifest the un-manifest. I think it's telling that artists understand this intuitively, because they understand sexuality in the wider (more spiritual) sense...

Precisely. I believe that this is what the artist's muse is- as what I have read they are always somewhat unreachable, or lacking a better word, may not be "conquered". Rather the relationship is that of adoration and perhaps even worship on some level, as the muse may manifest the divine or at least so that the artist may see and use this in their work.

I couldn't have put it better! I personally have a catholic crucifix that I wear in a (pseudo-)blasphemous sense with exactly this idea in mind. "He is where he is not & nowhere else".

[RaktaZoci]

A very good topic! Let me share a few thoughts..

First of all, I must say that I find all this talk of abstinence very unnatural for my person. I'm not sure how others might cope with this kind of stance, but I sure am a very sexual person and it is something which is characteristic for my personality. I don't know it this is seen by you all as some sort of carnal disorder, but I must say that for me, if the energy is not released, it will explode.

I don't mean by this that I wouldn't see the sacred nature of the coitus an sich or that I would be a sex addict or something like that. It is just a natural way for me to function. I do think that suppressing this nature would indeed result in serious problems, atleast in the long run.

It is possible, however, for me to direct this energy elsewhere than to the actual sexual act, but my point is it needs to be directed somewhere. This was a big problem for me when I was younger, since I, first of all, wasn't aware of this and secondly this naturally would result in frequent explosions which would create other problems and so on.

Also, I do not really believe that the female counterpart would be able to steal the males thunder. Atleast this is not true in my case. I do see the symbolism, though.

[Insanus]

Hear hear. I think he idea is to "sublimate life" and I guess it's not possible if there's no strong sexual drive (eros as "will to live") in the first place.
I have had (and still have) big problems with this "practice" or rather attitude that it is a very important goal. Those problems controlled my life for a long time, and partly still do..yet, I'm still absolutely certain that it's just friction of the process and the idea is correct.
This, by the way, is the reason why I'm sometimes almost fanatic with the idea of sublimating all forms into formless ideas: through this sublimation the "explosion of energy" can happen mentally, without physical violence & also without physical sex, preferably resulting in awakening of kundalini. It certainly cannot mean that physical intercourse would be absolutely forbidden or that we should become frigid (that sort of denial might be part of the means, but never the end), but that the fulfillment of passions is absolutely not a necessity & that it doesn't dictate our life. Probably the ways vary personally, but I believe that the process is necessary for the real mortification or true meditation on death to be possible, which (IMO) is the way to the Master and understanding & surrendering to Self.

EDIT: just to be clear: the passions don't die, but more like become fulfilled instantaneously regardless of outer needs. And this OBVIOUSLY is just my personal view.