The Star of Azazel - Azazelin Tähti

Heith wrote:To me the taste of meat has lot its charm years ago. I never really liked it very much if I recall correctly. It was just something one got used to eating as a kid.

As a child I thought that I liked meat. But when I stopped eating it, it came to me that actually I had always liked those delicious creamy sauces that accompany it much more. Not once during these years I have looked back or craved for meat.

One other thing, for there's a chance this might help someone: As a child, I also suffered from stomach aches quite often. Those problems stopped when I stopped eating meat. It seems there are different body types, & they have different needs. (Something that the Indian culture has known at least since the Vedic times...)

Heith wrote:As to leather (which sides the topic), I do wear leather hiking shoes for example.

I too use leather products. Even some of my books have been bound into animal leather. (Although I had to turn down the idea of binding one edition into virgin vellum; my personal code might not be easy to grasp since it's not totalitarian, but it's there.)

Nefastos wrote:

Heith wrote:To me the taste of meat has lot its charm years ago. I never really liked it very much if I recall correctly. It was just something one got used to eating as a kid.

As a child I thought that I liked meat. But when I stopped eating it, it came to me that actually I had always liked those delicious creamy sauces that accompany it much more. Not once during these years I have looked back or craved for meat.

Well, I really like the taste of most meats so it's probably best that I totally abstain. This got me thinking though, it's not feasible at the moment, but what do people think of in vitro meat? As far as I understand it, no animals die aside from the original animal.

Nefastos wrote:I too use leather products. Even some of my books have been bound into animal leather. (Although I had to turn down the idea of binding one edition into virgin vellum; my personal code might not be easy to grasp since it's not totalitarian, but it's there.)

You could have been super fancy and opted for stillborn or unborn vellum for an extra limited edition, which would also naturally have sent prices rocketing .

Jiva wrote:This got me thinking though, it's not feasible at the moment, but what do people think of in vitro meat?

Might be the choice for the future culture all right. Personally I don't feel any inclinations to eat anything that have been made to resemble meat in taste or texture, so I'm not interested. But if someone really has such craving, that might be answer. It's a bit icky yeah, but not as much as the standard procedure.

Jiva wrote:You could have been super fancy and opted for stillborn or unborn vellum for an extra limited edition, which would also naturally have sent prices rocketing .

Now that you mentioned, the talk actually was about one of those, don't remember which one. I had put it aside from my mind.

I voted the option "No, but I've tried or would like to try that one day". If anything is morally certain, factory farming is not ethical. And by buying meat I support it from my own part. Still, my own bet in that is so small, that I don´t consider this an urgent issue. I´m so acquainted in eating meat that if I would force myself to ending that, it would very likely result in some more serious wrong that I probably wouldn´t recognize. This sounds rationalizing, but as well it could be asked from me why I don´t put most of my money to charity, why I don´t devote my time to something more useful than for example listening to music etc.

Nefastos wrote:

Jiva wrote:This got me thinking though, it's not feasible at the moment, but what do people think of in vitro meat?

Might be the choice for the future culture all right. Personally I don't feel any inclinations to eat anything that have been made to resemble meat in taste or texture, so I'm not interested. But if someone really has such craving, that might be answer. It's a bit icky yeah, but not as much as the standard procedure.

Same goes for me as well- I don't want to eat meat, be it from a tank or a cow farm.

Every time when man tries to manipulate nature in some ways I think we enter a possibly very risky area. I do not know what are the hazards of vitrio meat, but I suppose there might be some problems in the production. I'm quite suspicious of this sort of thing.

Heith wrote:Every time when man tries to manipulate nature in some ways I think we enter a possibly very risky area. I do not know what are the hazards of vitrio meat, but I suppose there might be some problems in the production. I'm quite suspicious of this sort of thing.

I was thinking this "synthetic meat" through the three perspectives: healthiness, ethical and ecological. The ethical problem disappears (or at least diminish greatly). Ecologically this is much better choice, but I'm very suspicious about the health aspect. There are cautionary examples of manipulating nature in history. We often see afterwards some harmful effects that we didn't even come near to think before.

I was a lacto-ovo-vegetarist for about seven years. Before that I stopped eating the meat of female animals as a part of a Kali-mantra yogic practice. But since I had children, first I started to eat fish, and then one Christmas eve I went back to being omnivorous. I do like the umami taste of red meat, but unlike Nefastos, I dislike most sauces. Meat, however, makes me lethargic, so about 2 -4 day per week I abstain for my own comfort. Of the vegetarian substitutes for meat, I dislike tofu, but I love quorn. Once my children get older, I will give up eating meat.

Of the eastern traditions, there are many meat eaters among the Tibetan Buddhists, including His Holiness The Dalai Lama.

I have been a lakto-vegetarian for about three years and have tried also full veganism (no animal products at all) for about one month. I have again started to eat meat for various reasons like fra obnoxion. But I still think vegetarianism (especially veganism) would be the best diet. In the western world dairy production is connected to the meat production but they don't have that problem in India for example. I think also eating insects would be better than eating red meat. But we have so many cultural prejudices against that habit in the western world. In many countries it is perfectly normal to eat things such as grasshoppers or mealworms. Many Africans get much of their daily protein portion from insects. And I have heard they can be delicious food as well.

Ok, let's update. I'm still lacto-ovo-vegetarian. Haven't eat fish or sea-cretures since yule 2014. Sometimes I'm thinking going fully vegan, but almost all my favourite foods contain some cheese or other milk products. And sometimes I'm thinking that this lacto-ovo-diet is good enough. If someday veganism seems natural, then I'm going to eat like that, but now I'm not there. Hovewer going back to eating meat - especially red meat - I see no option at all. I have read so much about different diets and their health - benefits etc. that I think red meat is just bad for you and environment (of course there are some special conditions and situations where eating red meat would be wise). Thinking health-wise, the problem is not the meat-eating, but too much meat-eating. Throught the history of mankind the meat has been more like a special food for celebrations and not for daily use (or something used as every dinner).

Funny how the thinking can change. I remember when I first started to pay attention to what I eat and should eat, dropping meat out from one dinner felt like an extreme thing. Now "extreme" thing would be something very different.

As a vegetarian for about 17 years (I forget exactly how long it's been now as I don't really pay attention to this, it's such a normal part of my life) I'm very pleased that things have changed for the better. It's not so many years ago when it was virtually impossible to eat a restaurant, because there was nothing on a menu that I would be able to eat. Nowadays all restaurants note that many people are vegetarians and shops are offering wider range of products than before. It's very easy to be a vegetarian these days. People also understand what being vegetarian means, as previously no one would understand that my diet isn't based solely on potatoes for example.

What delights me is that new products are being developed which could well replace meat, for example to many people who demand high protein diets, as is fashionable these days. There's a new plant based protein product coming to shops soon, which seems quite promising nutritional wise. I think this sort of thing is key to have people choose vegetarian or vegan stuff over meat, if not every day, then at least more often. It seems to me that the only thing that can change the world is, sadly, our choices as consumers.