'Everyday' Violence

[Jiva]

I guess there could be a topic regarding violence in the Philosophy section, but here I'm more interested in peoples' opinions regarding 'everyday' violence and especially depictions of violence which I suppose are far more common that actual acts in most peoples' lives. Basically, by this I essentially mean depictions of violence in TV, film or video game, violence in sports and anything similarly related.

At least in the West (where the majority of us are from and live), we are among the first generations where the majority of people haven't actually seen a human corpse or witnessed human or animal suffering in such an acute manner as people historically did. At the same time, we have become increasingly more adept at simulating it for enjoyment. As non-violence is a major tenet in the SoA's philosophy I was wondering how people viewed this relationship and the effects it has on them?

[Wyrmfang]

On a very general level, I think this has a positive side and a negative side, of which the positive side is far more important.

Although some conservatives claim the opposite, the use of violence has decreased throughout the history. In our time one very important factor contributing to this development is exactly the "enjoyment depiction" of violence in media, videogames etc. Although it´s of course not about "real" thoroughgoing sublimation of violent tendencies, this development is nevertheless a kind of sublimation on major societal level. In his What Evil Means to Us Fred Alford argues (based on his interview data) that a major factor behind violent behavior is poorness in aesthetic imagination. Now when most people listen to music, follow the media, read books, watch movies, play videogames etc. they imagine the violence and therefore don´t usually need that much to do it in practice.

The negative side is, that in some cases the result can be the opposite. Some people who already have serious problems may lose their sense of reality and confuse the difference between actual and imagined violence.

[Fomalhaut]

Although some conservatives claim the opposite, the use of violence has decreased throughout the history.

I do not consider myself as "conservative" but I do not agree with you about this at all. Could you please give examples how it decreased throughout the history? Did it decrease on personal level or did it decrease on bigger mass level? My humble opinion tells that it just got worse.

[Wyrmfang]

I mean it on pretty much on all scales. What I say is of course hard to prove by any fast means, but here is one good article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/2 ... 26723.html

If we think for example ancient Greece which is still regarded as extraordinarily "civilized" in the scale of the time, slavery was still taken for granted, and men were thought to prove their "manliness" only in war. The same amounts to the use torture up to the 19th century. Rape and beating children have been criminalized for a pretty short time. What primarily creates the picture that violence in general has increased is, that it is far more visible now, also in a large scale.

But as I said, there is also the other side. More people drop away from the common social reality, and may often engage in completely dehumanizing crimes.

EDIT: As to the article, I don´t yet agree with writer in his implicit thesis, that the world would have become happier. It´s almost a part of the meaning a "new age", that suffering becomes more often mental instead of physical.

[Fomalhaut]

I mean it on pretty much on all scales. What I say is of course hard to prove by any fast means, but here is one good article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/2 ... 26723.html

If we think for example ancient Greece which is still regarded as extraordinarily "civilized" in the scale of the time, slavery was still taken for granted, and men were thought to prove their "manliness" only in war. The same amounts to the use torture up to the 19th century. Rape and beating children have been criminalized for a pretty short time. What primarily creates the picture that violence in general has increased is, that it is far more visible now, also in a large scale.

But as I said, there is also the other side. More people drop away from the common social reality, and may often engage in completely dehumanizing crimes.

Thanks for sharing the article, Frater. First of all, I would like to say that I would want to believe that there is a decrease in violence but I just cannot believe it. The huge amount of world's population is living under poverty (If I know right it must be 1/3 but correct me please if I am mistaken).People work to die. The modern times slavery is more violent than the slavery of past.. It was not long ago but 60 years ago some country used two atom bombs to end a world war(what a peaceful and non-violent way to stop a war. I am not anti-American, I am just giving an example here.) The wars in past sound more honourable to my ears than nowadays' wars. At least kings / emperors who were leading their people to war were fighting with them in front lines. And in past, people did know less about earth than we do nowadays.

If we are still more "civilised", what makes people still rape, torture, abuse children, make people slave still?

I have seen in the news a few weeks ago, some cannibal tribe guy in Africa ate a Muslim guy alive. There was a footage of it. Isn't person who records the video as violent as that cannibal guy? He attacked and ate the Muslim guy because Muslim guy killed all of the members of his family.

And additionally, we know the history from other people's biased stories. I do not think the level of violence of nowadays and past can be compared in any means because humankind is more violent than ever in my opinion.

[Jiva]

On a very general level, I think this has a positive side and a negative side, of which the positive side is far more important.

Although some conservatives claim the opposite, the use of violence has decreased throughout the history. In our time one very important factor contributing to this development is exactly the "enjoyment depiction" of violence in media, videogames etc. Although it´s of course not about "real" thoroughgoing sublimation of violent tendencies, this development is nevertheless a kind of sublimation on major societal level. In his What Evil Means to Us Fred Alford argues (based on his interview data) that a major factor behind violent behavior is poorness in aesthetic imagination. Now when most people listen to music, follow the media, read books, watch movies, play videogames etc. they imagine the violence and therefore don´t usually need that much to do it in practice.

The negative side is, that in some cases the result can be the opposite. Some people who already have serious problems may lose their sense of reality and confuse the difference between actual and imagined violence.

This is basically what I've been thinking about lately. On some online games it's basically a competition to kill other players' avatars as many times as possible which could provide a false impression of what war is and ultimately result in a mindset similar to that prior to WWI. Condescending perhaps, but for example last year Prince Harry gave an interview where he stated that he chose to become a helicopter gunship pilot as he liked playing the Xbox and wanted to do something useful with his thumbs.

This isn't a particularly rare thing; before many major wars (Crimean, American Civil War etc.) there have been attitudes of complacency. However, I think that there's a uniquely modern aspect to this issue at the moment. I mentioned that we've become so adept at simulating supposedly realistic torture and death on TV and film, but I often wonder if we've become so obsessed with sensationalist fictional violence that whenever recordings like Fomalhaut mentioned are shown they can seem paradoxically tame and unreal in comparison. There are a few recent examples I can think of where images or recordings have appeared on the internet and people have complained by calling them fakes because there isn't enough blood, the blood is the 'wrong' shade or the sound isn't as 'realistic'. Thus we have instant access via the internet to numerous horrific acts of violence, but violence that is different to the 'realistic' depictions in our TV shows and films.

If we are still more "civilised", what makes people still rape, torture, abuse children, make people slave still?

I think it's correct to consider modern Western society more civilised to an extent for the simple reason that the things you list are almost totally illegal and policed in better ways: slavery is illegal, capital punishment is not as widely practised, corporal punishment isn't used in prisons and schools, rapists are considered criminals rather than victims etc.

Regarding criminal/personal violence, the numbers of incidents have certainly gone up over time, simply due to population increase. Personally I think the rate of incidences has generally gone down although the rate of some crimes may well go up. It's a paradox, but as taboos are broken, more people are reporting things they previously might've tried to ignore or repress to avoid shame or ostracism. As I analyse crime figures (amongst other things) for a living, I usually hope that, for instance, the numbers of monthly domestic violence reports increase as it typically indicates that people feel safer to escape these situations.

I would also make the point that global media exists to make money and that there's at least some truth to the adage that 'good news doesn't sell'.

[Fomalhaut]

If we are still more "civilised", what makes people still rape, torture, abuse children, make people slave still?

I think it's correct to consider modern Western society more civilised to an extent for the simple reason that the things you list are almost totally illegal and policed in better ways: slavery is illegal, capital punishment is not as widely practised, corporal punishment isn't used in prisons and schools, rapists are considered criminals rather than victims etc.

Thanks for your answer fra. Jiva. However, I believe the whole system in Western Society is more or less slavery.

I would like to ask a question about corporal punishment not being used in prisons: what do you think about Guantanamo Bay detention camp?

[Jiva]

No problem. I'll answer that question in a PM though as I think it's predominantly a political issue rather than a larger sociological trend.

[Fomalhaut]

Thanks your answer but I was not trying to start a political debate here. I am politically unbound but I wanted to give an example in opposition to your idea about Western society's being more civilised.

Every political action has a sociological consequence. Guantanamo Bay detention camp was just an example.

[Nefastos]

Our modern civilization (I'm not saying society, the word which would bring the issue to the political level too easily) has its deep going problems, but the defacto violence seems to be indeed lessened, and that's a real victory in my opinion. Not so many centuries ago - practically yesterday in the esotericist's viewpoint - it was not a big deal to torture someone publicly to death because he was seen guilty of something. Nowadays it's a smaller number of people who actually support such behaviour. That we still have serious lackings is clear, I think, to all the people discussing here.

I guess there could be a topic regarding violence in the Philosophy section, but here I'm more interested in peoples' opinions regarding 'everyday' violence and especially depictions of violence which I suppose are far more common that actual acts in most peoples' lives. Basically, by this I essentially mean depictions of violence in TV, film or video game, violence in sports and anything similarly related.

This is a great topic of which much could be said. Just an anecdote, though:

I've never been a fan of television, but when I was a teenager & then again at the later date I have much enjoyed the computer games. Your topic brought memories from my teen years, when I started to question the violence in the games, & in result started to play games with violence in them without using violence myself, or using only the minimal violence that was absolutely required. I still recall vividly those bizarre situations it put my mind into. It was a great lesson in ahimsa (before knowing such a word existed).

I think the main point will always be in that one should wake up to understand the potential problematics, not how one reacts to the situation personally. There might be many right answers, but all of them need the question at first be acknowledged & pondered upon.