World in Crisis

Putting together ones life with the modern world.
Ave
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:15 pm
Location: Hämeenlinna/ Tampere

Re: World in Crisis

Post by Ave »

Aquila wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:43 pm
In the limited space that we have here in these forum posts it’s reasonable to concentrate on one or few points at a time. We all have other thoughts as well that are just not shown in our messages. But I try to concentrate on thoughts that have been posted, add something to them and hopefully someone else adds more to my limited ideas that I have posted online, whether I already understood that side of things before or not. It’s impossible to concentrate on personal feelings and thoughts behind the posts. It can be annoying because you might feel something like “do these people really think that I didn’t know that already or do they think I’m some cold asshole who’s totally incompassionate”. Every time I post something here I also have various ideas that might be opposing the thoughts I just posted or I might think that maybe I shouldn't have written like that, etc.

In my case writing here is also about overcoming the wrong idea that I should be perfect in my ways of communication (I have a strong tendency to demand too much from myself and I have tried to leave that behind. Otherwise I could not write anything here.) If our writings were perfect there would be no discussion. It's also about letting others fill in something that I might have left unsaid or didn't realize. I write thoughts that are inspired by ideas presented on this forum by other users. I don’t post much about my personal issues or feelings but I still am very uncertain of everything I write here. It’s just my thoughts which I wish to be of some kind of value. And I’m very happy to be in a place where I feel there are people capable of the discussion we are having here. If I seem to be picking up on something some of you have written here, it’s only because your thoughts made me think about something I had not thought of before. They gave me something new to think about. It might seem like I am saying something to you personally but it's only a response to what you wrote, not what is behind the computer screen. It’s definitely not about trying to correct anyone or make you look like something you are not. I'm not trying to prove you wrong even if I disagree with something you said. I might seem very argumentative but it's only for the sake of trying to be clear and on point, yet I acknowledge I have misunderstandings like anyone else. But it's only good to write even things that might be based on misunderstanding others as that gives others the possibility to make things clearer which then allows me to learn and gain perspective.
Thank you for this insight, Aquila. It means much that you've given the time to explain these things (as they seem to require explaining to me). I got upset when I interpretated that some of you were referring to my texts but not making it transparent (for example by quoting them). I saw it as a form of índirect communication which triggered me. But I can own this now. And by the way, I'm doing the same right now - referring just "some of you". I totally understand that this kind of impreciseness isn't personal.
Nefastos wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:55 pm
And which is even more important, he must not become one of those who wait the fire with anticipation, who would rejoice when the bombs fall (figuratively or literally). Those two are just the different kinds of the same most profane coin: remain small in the RHP or the LHP exotericism, and fall to the temptations of either tribe mentality or cruel selfishness.

By this I mean not to say that both of these falls would not have their alluring influcene over me. Especially the latter is something I have to at least passively fight off almost every day, be it a corona outbreak situation or something else entirely. But should I give up to that urge, even an inch, I would become the basest of all the base creatures, unable to actually help anyone, which would also include myself in the path of ascension. For that path is, most of all, the path of universal compassion.
Yes, we are balancing on thin lines here. In Tao te Ching there's a saying: "The greatest love seems indifferent". I'm a taoist in my heart (have been for many years) and I acknowledge how subtle the process of embodying the way is. I have to ask following questions again and again:

Is this surrendering to the Being - or act of fearfully giving up?
Is this loving indifference - or not-giving-a-fuck disquised as such
... And the list goes on.

I've realized that - for me - nothing takes more courage/love in this world than being attached. Being attached to things I know being temporal and mortal feels like my heart is literally burning with the world. Giving birth to two children highlighted this. This kind of attachment is surrendering to the Tao. It's sees temporal as eternal - and vice versa.
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.


https://matkamerenpohjaan.blogspot.com/
Ave
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:15 pm
Location: Hämeenlinna/ Tampere

Re: World in Crisis

Post by Ave »

Ave wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:21 am
I've realized that - for me - nothing takes more courage/love in this world than being attached. Being attached to things I know being temporal and mortal feels like my heart is literally burning with the world. Giving birth to two children highlighted this. This kind of attachment is surrendering to the Tao. It's sees temporal as eternal - and vice versa.
(It's always so cool to comment on one's own posts, but...)

In my childhood I actively trained myself not to be attached to anything. As a child I remember myself going over and over again throught the fact that I was going to die soon, so being attached would be futile. Therefore surrendering to the human condition and being attached is such an important lesson for me. It's interesting that detachment can be potentially a sign of pathology - but sometimes also a one of remarkable spiritual growth. It all depends on various variables.

I shared this story to highlight how the lessons of the path can relate to one's own life story. The relation is not straightforward and always easy to crasp. (And even less so, if one believes in re-incarnation like I do.) And it's an ever interesting question did my childhood experieces enable me to excelerate my spiritual potency or is my spiritual practice made of disquised and infantile defence mechanisms. Both, is the obvious answer (which doesn't mean that one needs to have a difficult childhood in order to grow, but that soil can be also very fruitful regarding spiritual growth... It's all about how one makes use of the experieces.)
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.


https://matkamerenpohjaan.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Aquila
Frater
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: World in Crisis

Post by Aquila »

Ave wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:21 am
Aquila wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:43 pm
In the limited space that we have here in these forum posts it’s reasonable to concentrate on one or few points at a time. We all have other thoughts as well that are just not shown in our messages. But I try to concentrate on thoughts that have been posted, add something to them and hopefully someone else adds more to my limited ideas that I have posted online, whether I already understood that side of things before or not. It’s impossible to concentrate on personal feelings and thoughts behind the posts. It can be annoying because you might feel something like “do these people really think that I didn’t know that already or do they think I’m some cold asshole who’s totally incompassionate”. Every time I post something here I also have various ideas that might be opposing the thoughts I just posted or I might think that maybe I shouldn't have written like that, etc.

In my case writing here is also about overcoming the wrong idea that I should be perfect in my ways of communication (I have a strong tendency to demand too much from myself and I have tried to leave that behind. Otherwise I could not write anything here.) If our writings were perfect there would be no discussion. It's also about letting others fill in something that I might have left unsaid or didn't realize. I write thoughts that are inspired by ideas presented on this forum by other users. I don’t post much about my personal issues or feelings but I still am very uncertain of everything I write here. It’s just my thoughts which I wish to be of some kind of value. And I’m very happy to be in a place where I feel there are people capable of the discussion we are having here. If I seem to be picking up on something some of you have written here, it’s only because your thoughts made me think about something I had not thought of before. They gave me something new to think about. It might seem like I am saying something to you personally but it's only a response to what you wrote, not what is behind the computer screen. It’s definitely not about trying to correct anyone or make you look like something you are not. I'm not trying to prove you wrong even if I disagree with something you said. I might seem very argumentative but it's only for the sake of trying to be clear and on point, yet I acknowledge I have misunderstandings like anyone else. But it's only good to write even things that might be based on misunderstanding others as that gives others the possibility to make things clearer which then allows me to learn and gain perspective.
Thank you for this insight, Aquila. It means much that you've given the time to explain these things (as they seem to require explaining to me). I got upset when I interpretated that some of you were referring to my texts but not making it transparent (for example by quoting them). I saw it as a form of índirect communication which triggered me. But I can own this now. And by the way, I'm doing the same right now - referring just "some of you". I totally understand that this kind of impreciseness isn't personal.
I agree completelly. It's very annoying when some people refer to something I have said, or something very close to it, but are not quoting it (doesn't happen here so often). I do it by myself too as sometimes it's difficult to quote everything one is referring to. Then it might appear like everything in the message was a response to your post although it's maybe just a little part and the rest is something else. But I will try to be clearer when I quote something and when I don't!
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Polyhymnia
Soror
Posts: 355
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:20 pm

Re: World in Crisis

Post by Polyhymnia »

Ave wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:21 am
Yes, we are balancing on thin lines here. In Tao te Ching there's a saying: "The greatest love seems indifferent". I'm a taoist in my heart (have been for many years) and I acknowledge how subtle the process of embodying the way is. I have to ask following questions again and again:

Is this surrendering to the Being - or act of fearfully giving up?
Is this loving indifference - or not-giving-a-fuck disquised as such
... And the list goes on.

I've realized that - for me - nothing takes more courage/love in this world than being attached. Being attached to things I know being temporal and mortal feels like my heart is literally burning with the world. Giving birth to two children highlighted this. This kind of attachment is surrendering to the Tao. It's sees temporal as eternal - and vice versa.
This rings very true for me, too. There are some days I feel almost paralyzed by fear, and ask myself over and over why I brought children into this world. I've been lucky so far that courage always wins, and I'm usually able to shake myself out of it and keep moving forward. I think it's incredibly hard to surrender to most things comfortably. Not that it's hard to surrender, depending on the circumstance. That part can be very easy. But being okay in that state of surrender is something that still strikes me as a very unsettling feeling. Probably because it's not always a very easy thing to trust.

Side note: I sometimes panic after submitting a post because I don't always think things through, and I've gathered it's a pretty normal reaction to have around here. I'm glad you brought up your feelings of being triggered, because I think that honesty is part of what helps keep these discussions whole. I appreciate your thoughts and your feelings, and I appreciate how everyone has come together on this subject with open hearts.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
Ave
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:15 pm
Location: Hämeenlinna/ Tampere

Re: World in Crisis

Post by Ave »

Polyhymnia wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:56 pm
Not that it's hard to surrender, depending on the circumstance. That part can be very easy. But being okay in that state of surrender is something that still strikes me as a very unsettling feeling. Probably because it's not always a very easy thing to trust.
I think that surrendering is not a default place for a human being, therefore the state is always prone to disappear quickly. One can not achieve surrendering and remain surrendered. The act of surrendering is an ongoing unfolding. And - as you referred - it requires trust. Trust towards what? - That's a very intimate question. I trust the notion that all human suffering is temporal (and I trust infinite wisdom of Oneness). Yet, this trust doesn't take away the suffering.

Yeah, giving birth in this world has felt like I'm feeding my children to the wolves. Nevertheless how counter-intuitive it feels, I still believe that there is a point to it. People have suffered and they have rejoyced here before us, and they will continue doing so after us. I also try to have trust towards my kids souls - they have their own reasons to be here. I delivered them, but their souls made the decision(s) to be born. But since this is "just" a belief/knowing of mine - it doesn't give me any absolute solice - since absolute solice is granted from me (here, in this earthly realm).
Polyhymnia wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:56 pm
Side note: I sometimes panic after submitting a post because I don't always think things through, and I've gathered it's a pretty normal reaction to have around here. I'm glad you brought up your feelings of being triggered, because I think that honesty is part of what helps keep these discussions whole. I appreciate your thoughts and your feelings, and I appreciate how everyone has come together on this subject with open hearts.
Thanks for your consoles and kind words, sis.
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.


https://matkamerenpohjaan.blogspot.com/
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