Poetry

Visual arts, music, poetry and other forms of art.
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Mimesis
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Re: Poetry

Postby Mimesis » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:21 am

obnoxion wrote:A question on languege that perhaps some of our native English speakers coild answer;

In his poem "Pied Beauty", Gerald Manley Hopkins makes a comparison between "fresh-firecoal" and "chestnut-falls". I've understood that a dark coal hot with an orange heart is not unlike a dark chestnut that has split open, revealing its brighter insides. But does "chestnut-falls" somhow signify a chestnut split open, or what? By the looks of it, the only thing that comes to mind are waterfalls that are somehow chestnuty, but that doesn't seem to fit... Or does it?
Interesting question. It was nice to read Pied Beauty again, so thank you for the impetus to do that.

I am perhaps considering it too simply, but I would in the first instance see the comparison between the 'fresh-firecoal' and 'chestnut-falls' as symbolising two things of such different natures being both in the one instance hard and dull on their outer appearance yet bright, rich and warm on their inner.

A falling chestnut I guess by default signifies a chestnut splitting open. It is the fall which cracks the shell, and it only (predominantly) falls when the inside is 'ripe' and ready for harvest. So perhaps also fidelity symbolism(?).
In Genesis, was chestnut sap not used by Jacob to increase the fertility of his flock?
"We are such stuff. As dreams are made on, and our little life. Is rounded with a sleep."
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Re: Poetry

Postby obnoxion » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:01 am

Omoksha wrote:
obnoxion wrote:A question on languege that perhaps some of our native English speakers coild answer;

In his poem "Pied Beauty", Gerald Manley Hopkins makes a comparison between "fresh-firecoal" and "chestnut-falls". I've understood that a dark coal hot with an orange heart is not unlike a dark chestnut that has split open, revealing its brighter insides. But does "chestnut-falls" somhow signify a chestnut split open, or what? By the looks of it, the only thing that comes to mind are waterfalls that are somehow chestnuty, but that doesn't seem to fit... Or does it?
Interesting question. It was nice to read Pied Beauty again, so thank you for the impetus to do that.

I am perhaps considering it too simply, but I would in the first instance see the comparison between the 'fresh-firecoal' and 'chestnut-falls' as symbolising two things of such different natures being both in the one instance hard and dull on their outer appearance yet bright, rich and warm on their inner.

A falling chestnut I guess by default signifies a chestnut splitting open. It is the fall which cracks the shell, and it only (predominantly) falls when the inside is 'ripe' and ready for harvest. So perhaps also fidelity symbolism(?).
In Genesis, was chestnut sap not used by Jacob to increase the fertility of his flock?
Thank you for the lucid interpretation, though I still don't think I would be able to use "chestnut-falls" in a sentence. With comparisons like these, it seems Hopkins had more than a litle Metaphysical poet in him.

Chestnut tree - just like the fresh poplar and almond-tree in Genesis 30:37 - are a Kabbalistic treasure trove! There word for chestnut-tree is almost the same as the word for "nakedness" in Genesis 2:25. The chestnut-tree apparently sheds its own bark, revealing its white nakedeness, and hence the name. I love this type of botanical symbolisim. And as such symbolism is found in abundance from the Bible, it does give, I think, a strong justification for the practice of Natural Theology.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Poetry

Postby obnoxion » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:36 pm

THE TUNE OF THE SEVEN TOWERS
William Morris

No one goes there now:
For what is left to fetch away
From the desolate battlements all arow,
And the lead roof heavy and grey?
'Therefore,' said fair Yoland of the flowers,
'This is the tune of Seven Towers.'

No one walks there now ;
Except in the white moonlight
The white ghosts walk in a row;
If one could see it, an awful sight, —
'Listen!' said fair Yoland of the flowers,
'This is the tune of Seven Towers.'

But none can see them now,
Though they sit by the side of the moat,
Feet half in the water, there in a row,
Long hair in the wind afloat.
'Therefore,' said fair Yoland of the flowers
'This is the tune of Seven Towers.'


If any will go to it now,
He must go to it all alone,
Its gates will not open to any row
Of glittering spears — will you go alone?
'Listen!' said fair Yoland of the flowers,
'This is the tune of Seven Towers.'


By my love go there now,
To fetch me my coif away,
My coif and my kirtle, with pearls arow,
Oliver, go to-day!
'Therefore,' said fair Yoland of the flowers,
'This is the tune of Seven Towers.'


I am unhappy now,
I cannot tell you why;
If you go, the priests and I in a row
Will pray that you may not die.
'Listen I' said fair Yoland of the flowers,
'This is the tune of Seven Towers.'


If you will go for me now,
I will kiss your mouth at last;
[She sayeth inwardly.]
(The graves stand grey in a row,)
Oliver, hold me fast!
'Therefore,' said fair Yoland of the flowers,
'This is the tune of Seven Towers.'



https://www.tate.org.uk/art/images/work ... 059_10.jpg

Behind the link is the Dante Gabriel Rossetti's luminous waterclour by the same name as the poem. This is a beutiful example of how the Pre-Raphaelite Poetry and Painting were like two hands joined to a common prayer.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Poetry

Postby obnoxion » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:22 pm

"[Dante Gabriel] Rossetti pays unusual attention to the... unpredictable effects of the artwork that survive its original context to be differently embodied (experienced and translated) by future makers. For Rossetti... the poem or painting exists in the world as a semi-autonomous physical presence - a "thing" that is more than its temporary life as its maker's work, or the commodity it becomes when it is offered for sale, or even its subsequent redifinitions, physical and conceptual, as part of a collection in a home or library or museum. Paintings and poems retain the capacity to "go strange" for those who later encounter them. This is what they offer - as promise but also a threat - to future artists and poets."

This quote is from Elizabeth K. Helsinger's magnificent book "Poetry and the Pre-Raphaelite Arts" (Yale University, 2008; pages 25 - 26), which is proving to be one of the best books on poetry or art I have read. It is this capacity of great art to "go strange" on me that first got me interested, and has kept me interested ever since.

In Pre-Raphaelite Art, one of the greates aspects of it is the union of painting and poetry. Most of my favourite poets are found among the English Romantics, many of whom considered painting inferior to poetry, mainly because poetry leaves more room for imagination. The lyric poem - the song-poem - reached toward music, which, as the highest concrete manifestation of the abstract idea of beauty, absorbed materiality of the poem into the spirituality. But in Pre-Raphaelites, as well as in the greatest Romantic Man of Genius, William Blake, we find deep understanding of the sublimity of both the painting and the poem. For example, many illustration of William Blake's aren't faithful to the letter of the text, but reach for the ideas behind the words, and become thus like original emanations, perfectly unique but intimately conjoined to the text. And in Rossetti's poems inspired by old paintings, in the words of Elizabeth K. Helsinger, "these poems do not become like the paintings that inspired them, but they open the possibility of attending to "things" in a new way. One could say that early Renaissance art, or thirteenth-century lyric poetry, itself functions as a liminal figure that tests the modern artist's or poet's powers of imaginative perception and re-creation" (page 28)

I find this union of poetry and painting so inspiring!
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Mimesis
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Re: Poetry

Postby Mimesis » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:22 am

Threshold
R. S. Thomas


I emerge from the mind’s
cave into the worse darkness
outside, where things pass and
the Lord is in none of them.

I have heard the still, small voice
and it was that of the bacteria
demolishing my cosmos. I
have lingered too long on

this threshold, but where can I go?
To look back is to lose the soul
I was leading upwards towards
the light. To look forward? Ah,

what balance is needed at
the edges of such an abyss.
I am alone on the surface
of a turning planet. What

to do but, like Michelangelo’s
Adam, put my hand
out into unknown space,
hoping for the reciprocating touch?
"We are such stuff. As dreams are made on, and our little life. Is rounded with a sleep."
obnoxion
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Re: Poetry

Postby obnoxion » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:57 pm

We are more than human,
following your flame,
O woman;

we are more than fire,
following your controlled
vibrance;

we are more than ice,
listening to the slow
beat of our hearts,
like under-current of sap in a flowering tree,
covered with late snow;

we are more than we know.

- H.D.-
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Poetry

Postby obnoxion » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:19 pm

And this black portrait - this head, huge, frowning, sorrowful, - is / Lucifer's portrait - the denied God's portrait, / (But I do not deny him - though cast out and rebellious; he is my God as much as any).

Extract from Walt Whitman's poem "Pictures".
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Smaragd
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Re: Poetry

Postby Smaragd » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:40 am

The Nightcap

For purposes of igniting dreams of noctrunal tone over your village.
Served from a carved hoof of a deceased horse died victim of a broken heart.

1 Spoon of dried and powdered bat skin from the very same stables
2 Spoons of smushed mixture of black currant and sour cherry berries
A splash of urine
1 Concentraded evil look from the local fault finder or strong frowner (preferably casted down from the top floor window to a raised dish during waning moon)
3 Sharp spits

Proper stirr.

Enjoyed outdoors in secret when the wind blows the night to come and you're ready for bed.
obnoxion
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Re: Poetry

Postby obnoxion » Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:15 am

Smaragd wrote:The Nightcap

For purposes of igniting dreams of noctrunal tone over your village.
Served from a carved hoof of a deceased horse died victim of a broken heart.

1 Spoon of dried and powdered bat skin from the very same stables
2 Spoons of smushed mixture of black currant and sour cherry berries
A splash of urine
1 Concentraded evil look from the local fault finder or strong frowner (preferably casted down from the top floor window to a raised dish during waning moon)
3 Sharp spits

Proper stirr.

Enjoyed outdoors in secret when the wind blows the night to come and you're ready for bed.
I love this poem.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Smaragd
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Re: Poetry

Postby Smaragd » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:01 am

Glad to hear it. Come to think of the streams that influenced its formation, your brotherhood work was certainly behind one or two of them. It is nice to have these small refreshing streams going on and crossing each other here and there.

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