Dimensions of the Demons' Cube

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Dimensions of the Demons' Cube

Postby obnoxion » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:14 am

Discussion split from the original topic of Agape (love). –JN
Nefastos wrote:In a way, it might be more apt way to draw the hexagram of the principles in a way wherein prâna and âtma swap places, and âtma is in the middle, i.e. present in all the other principles. Blavatsky's original points of the esoteric theosophical sevenfold scheme were that a) "âtma" actually does not exist as a principle in itself, but is more like a veil for the so-called auric egg in Jupiter correspondence, and b) that prâna (life force) equals jiva (~ spiritual Self or the monad) in spiritual realm and they are in a way one.

This really opened up an important gateway to the principles as I have understood them, though more vaguely. The atmic principle as a veil is exactly the way I have understood Satan, who corresponds to the atmic principle in the upper triangle – as the last veil before the absolute. The idea of auric egg instead on concentrated point, I think, is better suited for my Shakta monism, at least on metaphorical levels.
According to Mme. Blavatsky, the Auric Egg per se is colored Blue, and its correspondence in the body is the cavity of the skull, filled with Ākāśa. (Theosophy WiKi: Auric Egg.)
This reminds me of the structures of the Zoharic Metaphysics. Therein the Upper World (that in a way does correspond to our upper triangle) is described as the Great Countenance, that is, Arich Anpin. Now, the skull of this Arich Anpin is said to be filled with a subtle essence called the Dew, and from therein it descends on the head of the Little Countenance, which corresponds to the Jiva/prana –principles.

This Dew takes part in the mystery of Satan, or at least thus I have concluded from my gematric research.

In the Psalm 133 it reads:
1
How good and pleasant it is
when God’s people live together in unity!
2
It is like precious oil poured on the head,
running down on the beard,
running down on Aaron’s beard,
down on the collar of his robe.
3
It is as if the dew of Hermon
were falling on Mount Zion.
For there the Lord bestows his blessing,
even life forevermore.
The term “As if the dew of Hermon” (KTL ChRMVN) corresponds to the value (363), which is one less than the value of the the name Ha’Satan (HShTN) or The Satan. Ha’Satan corresponds exactly with the name "Hidden Light" of the 1st Path, “Or Mofla" (AVR MVPLA) – that is, Kether - both having the gematric value 364.

But there exists also the gematric rule formulated by Moses of Cordovero, called the Rule of Colel, which means that one can add or reduce Aleph (1) from a word without changing the essential correspondence. I rarely rely on it, because, obviously gematria is an art, and not a science, and I think that art profits from strict boundaries (here is where I part ways especially with Kenneth Grant, whose gematria bends the boundaries too much to my liking). But in this case, the Rule of Colel paints such a meaningful pattern that it cannot be ignored.

I have one final thought on the Jiva/Atma –relationship. I am reading a book called “Offering Flowers, Feeding Skulls” by June McDaniel, and there were two examples of possession in Shaktism that have to do with Jiva and Atma.

In folk shaktism, a dissociative form of possession is usual. In this form of possession, the medium is unconscious or passively separate from the possessing entity. One holy woman from India has explained that in this model the lower personal ego (Jiva) is possessed by the higher atmic self. In this sort of possession (bhar), the possessing atmic deity puts the jiva asleep.

Another form of possession is found more often in Tantra and Bhakta Yoga. In this possession, the atmic self is penetrated by the Goddess:

The Goddess’s presence or power enters the divine self, filling it with light and bliss during the time of the possession, bringing greater strength, concentration, and energy than the person has normally. The ordinary personality stays in place, as does the person’s memory, but the divine self is filled with the goddess’s presence. Thus the person’s ordinary language, ideas, and memory are present, but motivation, energy, and underlaying will belong to the goddess. (June McDaniel: “Offering Flowers, Feeding Skulls”, 2004, Oxford University Press, pages 50 – 51.)
The Jiva possession is often involuntary, though by accepting it a person can gain some measure of control over it. But the Atma possession (Bhava) results from intense devotional love – a form of Agape.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Agape (love)

Postby Nefastos » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:16 pm

obnoxion wrote:The atmic principle as a veil is exactly the way I have understood Satan, who corresponds to the atmic principle in the upper triangle – as the last veil before the absolute. The idea of auric egg instead on concentrated point, I think, is better suited for my Shakta monism, at least on metaphorical levels.


In case you have time at some point, it would be interesting to hear what do you think about the model in the Demons' Cube.

If you recall, in it (chapter 3) I presented that the ultimate duad forms the dimensional axis that intersects the three-dimensional Metatron's cube in the middle, creating the correspondence for this âtma-buddhic duad as a monad-auric duad correspondence with Uranus & Neptune, the latter being the "auric egg" corresponding with the ultimate (speaking of the manifested) feminine aspect 0. This last perceptible monad-duad would in turn be presented as "under Sun" in the middle of the cube/hexagram, i.e. hidden behind prâna/âtma.

obnoxion wrote:Now, the skull of this Arich Anpin is said to be filled with a subtle essence called the Dew, and from therein it descends on the head of the Little Countenance, which corresponds to the Jiva/prana –principles.


This brings to mind the last initiations' "higher luna", the tantric Moon which drips its nectar dew from the skull to the throat (or another part of the brain, esoterically?) of the devotee, making him immortal with amrita.

Could this dripping dew be the same as the "dew from the Tree of Life" in our Hymn to the Great Mother?

One important part of linga sharîra (the moon body or our "etheric" self) is its connection with this prâna-jiva and its transmutation with (âtma-)buddhi, and the secret solution seems to be the "dew".

obnoxion wrote:the lower personal ego (Jiva) is possessed by the higher atmic self. In this sort of possession (bhar), the possessing atmic deity puts the jiva asleep.


Just a quick note here: When talking about Jiva, I personally have used it in a meaning of the "incarnated Self", which is more like (âtma-buddhi-manasic) "Ego" present in the world of forms, rather than "the lower personal ego" itself. For example, a "soulless" human (the one who had lost the connection with âtma-buddhi-manas because of extreme selfishness or absolute materialism) would be bereft of his or her jiva, even if filled with prâna. (We could also say that the "jiva" or the chord no longer forms a complete line from circumferential point to another, but instead a line from circumference to some point in the circle, thus creating a being with no personal destiny or future; a spiritual stillborn.)

This personal usage of mine would not be interesting in any normal discussion, but it might be needed to note here. I am quite unaware of the term's precise uses in the different hindu schools.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: Agape (love)

Postby obnoxion » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:07 pm

Nefastos wrote:In case you have time at some point, it would be interesting to hear what do you think about the model in the Demons' Cube.If you recall, in it (chapter 3) I presented that the ultimate duad forms the dimensional axis that intersects the three-dimensional Metatron's cube in the middle, creating the correspondence for this âtma-buddhic duad as a monad-auric duad correspondence with Uranus & Neptune, the latter being the "auric egg" corresponding with the ultimate (speaking of the manifested) feminine aspect 0. This last perceptible monad-duad would in turn be presented as "under Sun" in the middle of the cube/hexagram, i.e. hidden behind prâna/âtma.
Yes it does, if I have understood it correctly. I would compare it to Kaula Trika model, where perhaps Saturn in His eight aspect could be Sadashiva in corpse position, and Uranus would correspond His navel from where the Trident (Neptune)) rises outside of the skull into the auric egg, so to spkeak. And above this would be the Trika - Apara, Parapara & Para - with the Heart, the invisible fourth point of Trika, manifesting the complete freedom of the subjective consciousneess, or, perhaps one could say, the citih svatantraa...? (EDIT: This whole paragraph is a vague over-simplification done in haste, but I think one can tell from it if I am totally in the wrong with my ideas. Anyway, the Demon's Cube is, I must say,a text that I seem to find myself in perfect agreement.)
Nefastos wrote:This brings to mind the last initiations' "higher luna", the tantric Moon which drips its nectar dew from the skull to the throat (or another part of the brain, esoterically?) of the devotee, making him immortal with amrita.
I think this teaching of the dripping of the nectar is quite universal feature of all elaborate esoterism. For example, the Alchemical dew, I think, corresponds to this phenomenon also. But each teaching is nuanced, and in these nuances lies their beauty.
Nefastos wrote:Could this dripping dew be the same as the "dew from the Tree of Life" in our Hymn to the Great Mother?
I have always thought that it is.
Nefastos wrote:One important part of linga sharîra (the moon body or our "etheric" self) is its connection with this prâna-jiva and its transmutation with (âtma-)buddhi, and the secret solution seems to be the "dew".
The Zoharic Dew is white in the upper world, but it gets mixed with redness as it descends on the head of the lesser countenance, which has its center in Tiphereth. The gematric value 364 correpsonds also to Shadda El Chai, which does corresond to the Nephesh and Yesod. This Shaddai El Chai is an endlessly complex but fascinating topic, and I have no chance elaborate on it at the moment. But from our previous discussions and by some of your writing I know you understand the concept very well (if I am qualified to judge such things). But in short, this concept could be said to include the moon body, and connect it further to the descent of the dew.
Nefastos wrote:When talking about Jiva, I personally have used it in a meaning of the "incarnated Self", which is more like (âtma-buddhi-manasic) "Ego" present in the world of forms, rather than "the lower personal ego" itself. For example, a "soulless" human (the one who had lost the connection with âtma-buddhi-manas because of extreme selfishness or absolute materialism) would be bereft of his or her jiva, even if filled with prâna. (We could also say that the "jiva" or the chord no longer forms a complete line from circumferential point to another, but instead a line from circumference to some point in the circle, thus creating a being with no personal destiny or future; a spiritual stillborn.)
I know, and I use it in the same way. In my example, the term was used by the one folk shakta practioner that was being interviewd. I suppose she might have used Jiva to mean all things that might be "under" that principle, and Atma to mean everything from Atma untill Jiva...

In the example, I think it was most interesting to have a practical occult example of how these principles are thought work in a magical practice in quite authentic setting, and to have an comprison of the Jiva-Atma connection.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Agape (love)

Postby obnoxion » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:52 am

obnoxion wrote:...where perhaps Saturn in His eight aspect could be Sadashiva in corpse position, and Uranus would correspond His navel from where the Trident (Neptune)) rises outside of the skull into the auric egg, so to spkeak...
So the navel of Sadashiva, who is laying down on horizontaly on the eye level of the Yogis head, so that the "opening" on the top of the skull of the Yogi is alligned with this navel. In this model, the trident is superimposed and centered vertically on the seated yogi.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Agape (love)

Postby RaktaZoci » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:21 pm

I'd like to take part in this very interesting coversation, even though I'm not certain if I have any new points to make concerning the subject. I've been, however, quite interested in the model of both the Demons' Cube and of our hieroglyphic key and how the "turning of the key" in it works, which Nefastos is decribing in his text Opening of the Gates in the first Unseen Fire.

I've seen the hieroglyphic key as a sort of a 3D-model, in which the upper triangle (manas-buddhi-atma) are sort of held above the lower triangle (kama manas, kama rupa, linga sharira). When modelled this way I think the effect of the higher and lower pronciples can be seen clearly. Until now I suppose we are all in agreement, yes?

So, about the turning of the key. I'd recall Nefastos mentioned the position of the lock being in the crossways of the "cross" in the middle, where the lines of prana and of the hands intersect. At first I had real trouble modelling the rotation of the whole construct, but I think I've figured it out in the end (atleast I think so). I have made a very crude sketch of this rotation, which I will attach to this post.

In the end, this model helped me to sort of put together in my head first of all:
1. How the hexagram forms and
2. How does the svastika fit in the equation

Let me try to explain. If the horisontal line in the hieroglyphic key is taken as the line which holds on its ends the LHP and the RHP, as the key turns, this line becomes parallel, or actually merges, with the line of prana. As this rotation takes place, the ends of the cross sort of draw lines, which form the svastika as the movement commences. At the same time the upper triangle moves clockwise and the lower moves counter clockwise. If this construct is viewed from above, it will form a hexagram. The united lines of the hands and prana will connect its two sides, at the same time travelling through the centerpoint of the whole structure. This would correspond with Nefastos' model in the Demons Cube, in which the centerpoint holds great importance, as described above in this conversation.

So yea, this was my two cents. I may be way off or then stepping on the threshold. Who knows..
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Re: Agape (love)

Postby Smaragd » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:41 pm

RaktaZoci wrote:I'd like to take part in this very interesting coversation, even though I'm not certain if I have any new points to make concerning the subject. I've been, however, quite interested in the model of both the Demons' Cube and of our hieroglyphic key and how the "turning of the key" in it works, which Nefastos is decribing in his text Opening of the Gates in the first Unseen Fire.

I've seen the hieroglyphic key as a sort of a 3D-model, in which the upper triangle (manas-buddhi-atma) are sort of held above the lower triangle (kama manas, kama rupa, linga sharira). When modelled this way I think the effect of the higher and lower pronciples can be seen clearly. Until now I suppose we are all in agreement, yes?

So, about the turning of the key. I'd recall Nefastos mentioned the position of the lock being in the crossways of the "cross" in the middle, where the lines of prana and of the hands intersect. At first I had real trouble modelling the rotation of the whole construct, but I think I've figured it out in the end (atleast I think so). I have made a very crude sketch of this rotation, which I will attach to this post.

In the end, this model helped me to sort of put together in my head first of all:
1. How the hexagram forms and
2. How does the svastika fit in the equation

Let me try to explain. If the horisontal line in the hieroglyphic key is taken as the line which holds on its ends the LHP and the RHP, as the key turns, this line becomes parallel, or actually merges, with the line of prana. As this rotation takes place, the ends of the cross sort of draw lines, which form the svastika as the movement commences. At the same time the upper triangle moves clockwise and the lower moves counter clockwise. If this construct is viewed from above, it will form a hexagram. The united lines of the hands and prana will connect its two sides, at the same time travelling through the centerpoint of the whole structure. This would correspond with Nefastos' model in the Demons Cube, in which the centerpoint holds great importance, as described above in this conversation.

So yea, this was my two cents. I may be way off or then stepping on the threshold. Who knows..
käppyrä2.jpg
Interesting approach! Keeping this in mind, I think I'll dig the first Unseen Fire under a pile of dust and read through the article in near future. Thank you for sharing.
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Dimensions of the Demons' Cube

Postby Nefastos » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:02 pm

RaktaZoci wrote:I've seen the hieroglyphic key as a sort of a 3D-model, in which the upper triangle (manas-buddhi-atma) are sort of held above the lower triangle (kama manas, kama rupa, linga sharira). When modelled this way I think the effect of the higher and lower pronciples can be seen clearly. Until now I suppose we are all in agreement, yes?


Yes, even though the Left Hand Path side that you connected with Buddhi-Kâma duad might be better to connect with Manas-Kâma manas duad. In this way, the emanation is seen to work clockwise, and the second principle of buddhi becomes right and the third principle of manas left.

If we make the model three dimensional, there is a possibility of making the middle cross as the axes of octahedron (in which case the cross also has hands pointing straight towards and away from the viewer) and the triangles as tetrahedrons.

RaktaZoci wrote:If the horisontal line in the hieroglyphic key is taken as the line which holds on its ends the LHP and the RHP, as the key turns, this line becomes parallel, or actually merges, with the line of prana. As this rotation takes place, the ends of the cross sort of draw lines, which form the svastika as the movement commences.


Yes, it thus merges with the "old" prâna, and yet the "new prâna" has already been sent on its way (as the Fohatic force of karmic or dharmic energy), and in a way the whole cross turns.

It was a great point to notice how they are the "prânic" lines which become the swastika's half-lines in dynamic motion. (And this dynamism of the swastika also exists in paratemporal planes of nirvâna, even though such motion is no longer susceptible to paradoxes of Zenon, being everywhere at once. On these planes, it is "jiva" rather than prâna.)

RaktaZoci wrote:At the same time the upper triangle moves clockwise and the lower moves counter clockwise. If this construct is viewed from above, it will form a hexagram.


We can indeed say that the triangles above and below turn along with the swastika (even though it takes many turns of swastika to turn the slower moving triangles), and in their movement they take turns to collide and separate, as mentioned in the article you mentioned (Opening of the Gates).

The central cross, i.e. swastika when it is seen put in motion by the hands' "solve & coagula", is put in motion by the poles hidden in the centers of the triangles above & below. The cross itself is astronomically speaking our planet Earth, the triangles being its spiritual poles or pole stars. The twofold rotation of the swastika can be seen as in the short cycle of a nycththemeron and the longer cycle of a Platonic year (Annus Magnus), and the latter period is the one that rotates the triangles.

Because of this different velocity of the triangles & the cross, it might be better to see the triangles' axis points at their centers, instead of one side:

Hieroglyphic_Key2.jpg
[/color]
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Re: Dimensions of the Demons' Cube

Postby RaktaZoci » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:03 pm

Nefastos wrote:If we make the model three dimensional, there is a possibility of making the middle cross as the axes of octahedron (in which case the cross also has hands pointing straight towards and away from the viewer) and the triangles as tetrahedrons.
This has crossed my mind also. I've been planning on fitting the contruct to the model of the Demons' Cube, but the work is still in process. I do "see", or understand, the connection of the 3D hexagram (two merged pyramids) to the figure, but the matrix holds so much more that I hadn't had time to study all of it yet. I guess the hieroglyphic key caught my eye, since it was so strongly connected to the SoA symbolism.
Nefastos wrote:Yes, it thus merges with the "old" prâna, and yet the "new prâna" has already been sent on its way (as the Fohatic force of karmic or dharmic energy), and in a way the whole cross turns.

It was a great point to notice how they are the "prânic" lines which become the swastika's half-lines in dynamic motion. (And this dynamism of the swastika also exists in paratemporal planes of nirvâna, even though such motion is no longer susceptible to paradoxes of Zenon, being everywhere at once. On these planes, it is "jiva" rather than prâna.)
I also thought about this of the merging of the original "1" (the divider of the circle) and the harmonious chord (jiva), which becomes the diameter.
Nefastos wrote:The central cross, i.e. swastika when it is seen put in motion by the hands' "solve & coagula", is put in motion by the poles hidden in the centers of the triangles above & below. The cross itself is astronomically speaking our planet Earth, the triangles being its spiritual poles or pole stars. The twofold rotation of the swastika can be seen as in the short cycle of a nycththemeron and the longer cycle of a Platonic year (Annus Magnus), and the latter period is the one that rotates the triangles.
The figure becomes indeed more simple to understand as rotating if the axis is placed in the middle of the triangles, as you suggested. The reference to the symbol of the Earth is also apparent, even though I hadn't thought of it before.
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Re: Dimensions of the Demons' Cube

Postby Kavi » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:48 pm

All higher numbers can be reduced to one of the original ten numerals, and the 10 itself to 1. Therefore, all groups of numbers resulting from the translation of names of deities into their numerical equivalents have a basis in one of the first ten numbers. By this system, in which the digits are added together, 666 becomes 6+6+6 or 18, and this, in turn, becomes 1+8 or 9. According to Revelation, 144,000 are to be saved. This number becomes 1+4+4+0+0+0, which equals 9, thus proving that both the Beast of Babylon and the number of the saved refer to man himself, whose symbol is the number 9. This system can be used successfully with both Greek and Hebrew letter values.
(http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta16.htm)

I have read Demons' Cube for many months now and I have been really contemplating the concept of (6+6+6= 18) (1+8=9)
How about (9+9+9=27) (2+7=9)?
Does it matter or is there some kind extra dimension given? Also I find it funny that it's reverse of 72.
7&8
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Re: Dimensions of the Demons' Cube

Postby Nefastos » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:38 pm

Numerology is not my forte, but it seems that the similarity of the numbers stays, in a way. Of course, there are no "identical" numbers like there are no strictly "identical" names for spirits, even though there are correspondences, sometimes very close.

I have often said that the modelf of 6 6 6 is the perfect model for the scale of seven without the soul point in the middle. In the Demons' Cube is also presented how the sevenfold and tenfold systems may be bridged, and 9 9 9 is a similar perfect model for the scale of ten. Thus the simple numerological regression that gives nine from both seems to give the key for the correspondence.

It is intriguing to notice that the modern glyphs for both of these numbers "6" and "9" form a spiralling (i.e. Fohatic or kundalinî-) movement, a noose. (As does Sanskrit devanagari "9".)
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