Your favourite planetary hymn (from Fosforos)

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Favourite planetary hymn

 
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Your favourite planetary hymn (from Fosforos)

Postby Polyhymnia » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:02 pm

Nefastos wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:49 pm

It has been interesting to note that as my own work has focused more onto the "male" pole of the White work (Jupiter) from its "female" pole (Venus), I have got more & more inspiration and joy reciting the Thursday's Hymn to the Lord of the Throne, while my earlier affectionate love to Fridays and to their Hymn to the Son of Dawn has been lessened. Now there's nothing mystical in this, but it is nice to see that the sympathy seems to be less about the wordings and more about the actual invoked archetypal energy. This is as it should be.
Thursday follows me everywhere. On my way to meet Fra Silvaeon I turned a curve and before me was the most incredible sight of clouds avalanching down a mountain. I had to pull over because I lost all my breath. I recite at least one line, unintentionally, from that hymn every day. The words just fall off my tongue.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Re: Your favourite planetary hymn (from Fosforos)

Postby obnoxion » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:33 pm

Nefastos wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:49 pm
Cerastes kirjoitti: ↑Mars, Mars, Mars, Saturn

That's a pretty Satanistic emphasis there!
I have (for two years) been writing an article on prayer, in which I've done commentaries on our hymns to Mars and Saturn. I was just reading "The Book of Oberon - A Sourcebook of Elizabethan magic", where it is written:

"Mars provides strength and boldness, lest we live in perpetual fear. The order of Potestates (the Powers) is in charge of these: For in strength is power, and Power is joined with strength. The prince of the Potestates is Samael, i.e., the "hearing of God:" For Power and strength have been placed in the hearing of God."

This is one of the more interesting descriptions of the Intelligence of Mars. And it reminded me of a question I've had for a long time: Why is it that Mars' angelic prince, Samael, is not mentioned in the hymn?
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Your favourite planetary hymn (from Fosforos)

Postby Cerastes » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:09 pm

Polyhymnia wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:24 pm
It's interesting that you say Mars several times. You very much strike me as one with alot of Mars energy.
Indeed, Mars feels most familiar for me.
For almost all the other prayers, I first had the feeling of addressing only external forces that have nothing to do with me. Relating to the Moon power is most difficult and I'm still working on it. Saturn is very facinating and important because I tend to have a strong tendency of taking uneccesary high risks and I'm not good with accepting authority which can be a hinderness for learning. (I still feel horribly sorry for my teachers at school :( ) I feel that Saturn reduces this dangerous impulsivness of Mars by setting borders.
obnoxion wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:33 pm
I have (for two years) been writing an article on prayer, in which I've done commentaries on our hymns to Mars and Saturn. I was just reading "The Book of Oberon - A Sourcebook of Elizabethan magic", where it is written:

"Mars provides strength and boldness, lest we live in perpetual fear. The order of Potestates (the Powers) is in charge of these: For in strength is power, and Power is joined with strength. The prince of the Potestates is Samael, i.e., the "hearing of God:" For Power and strength have been placed in the hearing of God."
A wonderful positive discribtion of the Mars energy.
Now you made me curious about this article of you wrote.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
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Re: Your favourite planetary hymn (from Fosforos)

Postby Aquila » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:18 pm

obnoxion wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:33 pm
Nefastos wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:49 pm
Cerastes kirjoitti: ↑Mars, Mars, Mars, Saturn

That's a pretty Satanistic emphasis there!
I have (for two years) been writing an article on prayer, in which I've done commentaries on our hymns to Mars and Saturn. I was just reading "The Book of Oberon - A Sourcebook of Elizabethan magic", where it is written:

"Mars provides strength and boldness, lest we live in perpetual fear. The order of Potestates (the Powers) is in charge of these: For in strength is power, and Power is joined with strength. The prince of the Potestates is Samael, i.e., the "hearing of God:" For Power and strength have been placed in the hearing of God."

This is one of the more interesting descriptions of the Intelligence of Mars. And it reminded me of a question I've had for a long time: Why is it that Mars' angelic prince, Samael, is not mentioned in the hymn?
Actually I've also been writing similar commentary during this year and have thought of the same question :) Will be interesting to see what kind of ideas you come up with! There is no angelic names mentioned in the Tuesday's hymn and I made a conclusion that there were intentions in the hymn that could be difficult to merge together with them as demons of Mars seem more difficult compared to the princes of other planetary forces. But maybe Fra Nefastos can elaborate his ideas behind the hymn and the use of the angelic names?
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Re: Your favourite planetary hymn (from Fosforos)

Postby obnoxion » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:57 am

Aquila wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:18 pm
There is no angelic names mentioned in the Tuesday's hymn and I made a conclusion that there were intentions in the hymn that could be difficult to merge together with them as demons of Mars seem more difficult compared to the princes of other planetary forces.
I've figured that much, too. And the lack of mention makes the hymn stand out in a powerful manner that I've perceived positively - like sor Cerastes wrote, it's the most internal of the the hymns. I've seen the angelic name sometimes written as Camael, which instantly makes a dilluted first impression. The absence of the name, on the other hand, leads thoughts to Samael, and thus charges the name further.

Also, in the Gnostic context, Samael can be reference to Tetragrammaton as the Blind God (to which the translation of the name above as the "hearing of God" can be a perceptive euphenism). But it is a multilayered name for sure. The other angelic name that has Tetragrammatic connotations would be Metatron - "The lesser IHVH" - in our Hymn to Sun, which I suppose is the most external of the hymns, at least in a fashion. And Metatron, in our philosophy, is a name that has directly Satanic connotations...
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Your favourite planetary hymn (from Fosforos)

Postby Nefastos » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:09 pm

It would be great to someday see these commentaries of yours, if at all possible.
obnoxion wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:33 pm
This is one of the more interesting descriptions of the Intelligence of Mars. And it reminded me of a question I've had for a long time: Why is it that Mars' angelic prince, Samael, is not mentioned in the hymn?
Aquila wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:18 pm
There is no angelic names mentioned in the Tuesday's hymn and I made a conclusion that there were intentions in the hymn that could be difficult to merge together with them as demons of Mars seem more difficult compared to the princes of other planetary forces. But maybe Fra Nefastos can elaborate his ideas behind the hymn and the use of the angelic names?


I have said elsewhere that our Martian patron (Azazel-Samael), is to me the most difficult of all the celestial ministers. This very idea of sacrifice (be it vicarious victimization of the self as in Azazel-Jesus myth cycles, or the sacrifice of others in the more exoterically Martian sacrifice by war & violence) is abhorrent to me, and I wrestle with it constantly. But because the power is in where the focus is, and the focus is where the problem is, this Azazelian mystery has thus become perhaps the most important part of the practical occult philosophy. Now this is a thing about which much could be said, but if I try to remain in the context of the Celestial Hymns, the origin of the Hymn to the Living Vine is a different to others. It originally comes from a text of mine which was not written to be prayer per se. I sometimes write, and wrote more when I was younger, these texts that are like feelings, or prose poems, or felt visions, outbursts of condensed emotion. I think this one was written about year 2000 or so. It goes like this (quick translation):

"The Sword of Lucifer"

My beloved guide, I thank you for your words that kindle hope in my heart. You point, and again I climb the stairs like cliffs of the World Mountain; you merely look at me, and the doors open within my soul. Nihil inimicus homini quam sibi ipse, you say, and I cry of joy, of the elation of going to war, after having waited for so long (so very long!) imprisoned within this chamber. I have still in my hand the sword, forged of steel and shimmering silver, sharp and precise, light, quick and sound. No longer am I afraid to use it, for I know, that every strike is directed to my own heart only. My heart, I chastise you because I love you! – for you are the whole world, and the world's door: when your essence is petrified to the reality of one view, the truth is lost. And we have had 18 million years to walk this path. These myriad forms in which Nature herself wakes against me, are only my own creative consciousness' unwilling projections to the lower hems of the dresses of the eternally untouchable Great Mother; and those hands reaching out of air, the laughter, the cries of animals, and all this lewdness and forcing are like dead leafs... For we wrestle not against principalities, against powers, against the archons of the space, but against our own self, which as a past-bordered fragment limits us from the coming and the eternal, as a mirror membrane, which separates us from the truth. O! with the greatest joy I pierce myself with this sword, kissing the hilt; and my fingers, unto which the living wine with a color of a garnet gem is shed are numb already, saturated with joy, changed into the one single Eye beholding itself in the depths filled with brightness.


I wonder did I actually write this as the ending of another such text, "The Opened Eye of Dangma", and only later separated them into two different parts...

Thus, the Tuesday's prayer is not as much a traditional invocation to its powers than the reversal of the usual depiction of theurgic ritual magic's Mars archetype as the vanquisher of foes and the breaker through obstacles: the Hymn remains stressedly solipsistic in this immanence of antagonism.

obnoxion wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:57 am
And the lack of mention makes the hymn stand out in a powerful manner that I've perceived positively

The practice of being something more vividly present by leaving it unmentioned originally comes to me from Tao Te Ching, and from a very heart-felt metaphysical concept of the absolute being of something created from the void of physical existence, created by the perfect union of complementing opposites. But such emphasis also transcends the "son" thus produced, which is what I felt Samael must go through here. The name has too many actively negative and hindering connotations, like the gnostic demiurge (Mars as the conceiver of the physical existence). This is too stressedly the basic problem of the religiosity of both the Western paths of the RHP & the LHP to make possible the interpretations which keep along the idea of turning the sword to others.

obnoxion wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:57 am
The other angelic name that has Tetragrammatic connotations would be Metatron - "The lesser IHVH" - in our Hymn to Sun, which I suppose is the most external of the hymns, at least in a fashion. And Metatron, in our philosophy, is a name that has directly Satanic connotations...


In the context of this discussion it is interesting to recall that Blavatsky likened Michael-Metatron to Mars, of all celestial bodies (in her posthumously published Secret Doctrine part 3).
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Your favourite planetary hymn (from Fosforos)

Postby Polyhymnia » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:57 pm

Is there a difference between JHVH and IHVH?
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Re: Your favourite planetary hymn (from Fosforos)

Postby obnoxion » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:03 pm

Polyhymnia wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:57 pm
Is there a difference between JHVH and IHVH?
No. Both are transliterations of the Hebrew name of Jahwe - spelled Yod, Heh, Vav, Heh. Tetragrammaton means the same as above, being Greek for the "four-lettered name".
Nefastos wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:09 pm
It would be great to someday see these commentaries of yours, if at all possible.
Mine is actually focused on a couple of sentences of each hymn, and not the whole hymns. I'm sorry to say the topic of Samael does not come up therein, though the absence did intrigue me. And your post, fra Nefastos, answered all my questions and exceeded my expectations. The text which the commentaries are a part of have been planned for some future english SoA zine, and I would absolutely run them through you before submitting them.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Your favourite planetary hymn (from Fosforos)

Postby Polyhymnia » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:21 pm

obnoxion wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:03 pm

No. Both are transliterations of the Hebrew name of Jahwe - spelled Yod, Heh, Vav, Heh. Tetragrammaton means the same as above, being Greek for the "four-lettered name
Thank you for the clarification! I thought so, and am familiar with JHVH, but this thread is the first I’ve seen IHVH.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran

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