Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

Astral and paranormal experiences, dreams and visions.
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Nefastos
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Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

Post by Nefastos »

In a different thread soror Vanth mentioned that phenomena of synchronicities had greatly increased after joining the Star of Azazel. This made me once again think the idea I had been pondering for some time: Are there differences in what way the psychic energy works its way out to phenomenal reality in different occult systems?

Of course, there are practices that by themselves lead to certain kind of experiences, and are rooted in long traditions. From Tibetan tradition, we know the practice of travelling long distances extremely fast; this phenomenon is often mentioned in Tibetan magic literature (see, for example, the biography of Milarepa, and David-Neels classic "Magic and Mystery in Tibet"), but is rarely mentioned elsewhere. Similarly we might take, for example, the very curious Hindu magic trick of sending someone climbing up a rope and disappearing. These kind of differentiated magical practices are common in some system or culture, but rare in others.

The more flashing phenomena are not very much unlike circus tricks, and might demand the use of "maya" (illusion, in the word's widest and also deepest sense) and extremely differentiated formal concentration. But more interesting to me are the "side-effects" of spiritual training: how a different kind of occult meditation might give birth to different kind of psychic abilities, which then become a new normal for a group.

Once again, this idea comes back to the "kaula"-kind of thinking: having one's esoteric group intimate and close, not unlike the closest familial ties, sharing the same psychic atmosphere, the same view on universe, and thus similar magical residue & guides (familiars & dakinis).
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

Post by Polyhymnia »

This is a very interesting topic. Upon joining the SoA I've dreamt of the brotherhood quite regularly. I feel it's important to note that I don't tend to have very memorable dreams, and even went through a period of several years where I didn't dream at all. Fra Silvaeon has been in several of my dreams, and I imagine that's because he has been very much a guide for me over the course of the past six months.
We met over the weekend and stayed in a small cabin, and I guess I was very vocal in my dream state. So much so that every time he woke up I was muttering something or other or making weird noises. The entire dream I had was based around our brief time together in the mountains. I've been known to talk in my sleep, but I can't help but wonder if his physical presence was directly activating my spirit and therefore affecting my dreamscape.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Cerastes
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Re: Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

Post by Cerastes »

Nefastos wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:40 am Are there differences in what way the psychic energy works its way out to phenomenal reality in different occult systems?
I would say yes.
Groups are by their very nature distinctive on all levels. Even the way we speak and move or basically every expression is an adaption to other people in our environment. At the point where a groupe is defined, there are alway interferences and the whole energetical system starts emerging in different ways, string to build an own dynamic.

Speaking about the SoA I do sense a common ground on an more subtle or occult level, even if there are a lot of different temperaments. So the psychic energy itself might difer but the frequence which works it‘s way out in the phenonemal world shifts to a collective pattern in some parts. It is amazing that this works even without any physical contact. In my case, the energetical difficulties at the beginning started to become better after I started adding the rosary to my practice. Therfore the practice itself or at least the consciousness that this is a collective practice and I’m not the only one who is doing this, must have had an influence on the process of adaption - Maybe both.

The way my psychic energy works its way out has definitely changed but in a way that I can't describe yet. Still I think that spiritual groups are, depending on their coherence, likely to build up such abilities that are considered normal at some point. And as a certain kind of spirituality is taught in different cultures there might have existend a little folk somewhere in the jungle of Borneo who cultivated a collective magical abilties that we will never even know about. Somehow I like this thought.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

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Cerastes wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:48 pm
I would say yes.
Groups are by their very nature distinctive on all levels. Even the way we speak and move or basically every expression is an adaption to other people in our environment. At the point where a groupe is defined, there are alway interferences and the whole energetical system starts emerging in different ways, string to build an own dynamic.
I think this is an observation that isn't always obvious and I think that's so interesting. It's so easy to assume that we are who we are and very little stop to think, "but why? Who's influencing me?" And you're right. There are many interferences and influences. Unless one were to remain completely solitary I would think it would be impossible to not be influenced in some way by another.

Cerastes wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:48 pm In my case, the energetical difficulties at the beginning started to become better after I started adding the rosary to my practice. Therfore the practice itself or at least the consciousness that this is a collective practice and I’m not the only one who is doing this, must have had an influence on the process of adaption - Maybe both.
This was the case for me as well, and adding on to my thought up there, I can't help but feel your influence in my growth, as you were the one who so graciously helped me find my footing in this part of my practice. I like to think that the grounding I felt upon incorporating the rosary was in no small part due to the energy from you when transferring this gift to me, and that energy being directly tapped into the collective energy of the SoA.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Cerastes
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Re: Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

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Polyhymnia wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:54 pm I think this is an observation that isn't always obvious and I think that's so interesting. It's so easy to assume that we are who we are and very little stop to think, "but why? Who's influencing me?" And you're right. There are many interferences and influences. Unless one were to remain completely solitary I would think it would be impossible to not be influenced in some way by another.
Actually this is why I avoided groups for all my life.
They mostly feel like a distrubance to my own energy so I got into a very isolated state of mind which is okay for a certain time but there is a point where I had to admit that it is a dead end.
Joining the SoA did shift my energy too but in a way that is valuable for spiritual growth.

It is interesting, by the way, that you had dreams about other members.
I never dreamt about them but I had and still have some sort of random pictural information right away when reading comments. It's comparable to the pine tree forest that I had in mind when hearing your beautiful song. Like a wisper between the lines that finds its way to the surface every now and then.
I had this before but not in this intensity. I mostly keep it to myself anyway as it is somehow confusing.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
obnoxion
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Re: Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

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The Finns and Lapps had sold wind to sailors contained in three knots in a cord or linen. Opening the first and the second knots made the wind blew favourably, but opening the third knot caused a storm. Considering the primal importance of The Maid of Air (whom I have lately come to compare in my private studies with the goddess Vac of Kashmir Shaivism), these could be considered as "philosopher's knots", that is, side-effects of spiritual training in a tradition that puts emphasis on the primacy of air in its Genesis.

For me, Kaula is exactly how I understand Brotherhood in our context, and such synchronicities are exactly how this kind of kaulism would become an integral part of one's life. It is such a beautiful phenomenon, as one does not need to meet anyone to experience this connection. But it must be remembered that from the very beginning the SoA has stressed that it is both a Society and a Brotherhood, and it does not have to be both for all its members.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Nefastos
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Re: Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

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Cerastes wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:04 pmJoining the SoA did shift my energy too but in a way that is valuable for spiritual growth.


I am very glad to hear that. I have noticed that there are also energy shifts and burdens of a collective kind that are also extremely good for one's soul – i.e. for the Great Work –, even though they are frustrating. Keeping solely in one's preferred spiritual atmosphere can be stunting not only to oneself, but also fatal for the whole society he should be helping. (By society I don't mean the state or even culture, but the whole system or "race", like the theosophists termed it in the 19th century language; meaning the whole aeon of development.)

In the first brotherhood publication, Hylätty Kivi #1, I included the following quotation:

Pekka Ervast wrote:"...in the new civilization and in creation of the new civilization it becomes necessary, that people everywhere in the world come together to form small groups and try to live holy and pure life. This is necessary because all the spiritual power, which will come to influence the world with this new sign are of the kind which will be discharged into groups and are able to help men when they come together, when they give hand to each other. In those cases these spirit powers are able to work in a blessing way, but they are so intense, that unnless an individual is not protected by love, they will destroy him. It will be like all the devils and demons would be let loose into the world, and they will cling to the indiviaul, who is weak and yet develops his intellect in the new system. Such a man is defenseless, like in a great wilderness, and the devils clinto into him, and he will be in immense danger, unless he is extraordinarily strong; and his life will be destroyed, if he has not get a long way in love. Even now [in year 1928] we see such signs in many countries, but they will appear more and more everywhere. The sole help is in that the people, who want to fulfill the will of life will joing to groups and feel that they love each other and are in harmony with each other. In such a case the angelic powers will join to them and the devils will depart. But this can only happen if these people remain in the group and feel that they love and help each other. A bit more is now expected from us human beings than before. The time itself will become a bit more serious. Yet everything will become happy, wonderful, if we will able to fulfill the will of life. Let us seek truth, let us attain the awakening of faith, let us join together as brothers."


(This text, published in the posthumous work called Gnostikot (Gnostics), is made from lectures written down shorthand. I love Ervast's euphemistic wording for the horror of darkness of the world wars and more. The readers who know his style of writing are more stricken by the statements like "The time itself will become a bit more serious" than Lovecraft's attempts to incite the feeling of fear by writhing nightmare vocabulary or King's hurling of profanities.)

Cerastes wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:04 pm
Polyhymnia wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:54 pmI think this is an observation that isn't always obvious and I think that's so interesting. It's so easy to assume that we are who we are and very little stop to think, "but why? Who's influencing me?" And you're right. There are many interferences and influences. Unless one were to remain completely solitary I would think it would be impossible to not be influenced in some way by another.

Actually this is why I avoided groups for all my life.


When I slowly started to realize to what extent other (viz. every single being's) minds influence & shape "my" mind at every moment, there dawned the question: Is there actually any kind of individuality at all? Is not every feeling, every "personal" thought of mine just imprints coming from the multitude of other beings, human and other.

This, in turn, made me realize the true meaning of the so-called Monad (~âtma) within. We as personalities really are nothing but mediums to other beings, but in case we focus ourselves to our own "dharmic quest", we will be transmitting also this "Self" within, and do actually have an individuality of sorts by, paradoxically, identifying with something else than ourselves – which as personalities and "personal" choices are not our own at all...

Cerastes wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:04 pmIt is interesting, by the way, that you had dreams about other members.


It became a bit tiring to me to dream every night about the brotherhood members before we made the major change in the Star of Azazel organization structure and let go of one common supervision. The pressure is still quite a lot to deal with, but it is now something that can be tolerated. There's a reason why one's immediate family does not consist of several dozen members.

obnoxion wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:44 amConsidering the primal importance of The Maid of Air (whom I have lately come compared in my private studies with the goddess Vac of Kashmir Shaivism), these could be considered as "philosopher's knots", that is, side-effects of spiritual training in a tradition that puts emphasis on the primacy of air in its Genesis.


This is fascinating. Especially since I personally affiliate strongly with the element of Air myself, along with Vac.

The idea of magical trinkets as side-products of one's actual working should be quite easy to come up with, but for our capitalistic age, it is often just the opposite.

(By the way, I do not mean to use "capitalistic" as in purely pejorative meaning; it has both its good and bad points. But both have become pretty extreme in the last decades in Europe, and apparently earlier over the Atlantic.)

obnoxion wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:44 amBut it must be remembered that from the very beginning the SoA has stressed that it is both a Society and a Brotherhood, and it does not have to be both for all its members.


This is a good thing to remind of. I think the brotherhood, which speaks for the universal brotherhood – not just as a fancy word, but as a certain spiritual mindset and a specific working method to reach the adepthood –, as a seashore. One can choose how deeply one wants to delve into that sea: toe-deep or waist-deep, or remaining on the shore. But in case he would want to go farther, the ocean does not actually end anywhere.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Tulihenki
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Re: Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

Post by Tulihenki »

I'm not a member, but even I have had several dreams where Nefastos is leading me to dark underground cave. This is happening when I read more intensively SoA txts. While years ago I had lot more instantly meaningful dreams and now lot less these occasions are more energizing and insightful.
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Re: Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

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Tulihenki wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:15 pm I'm not a member, but even I have had several dreams where Nefastos is leading me to dark underground cave. This is happening when I read more intensively SoA txts. While years ago I had lot more instantly meaningful dreams and now lot less these occasions are more energizing and insightful.
This brings to mind another thing we've spoken about since the early years - that there are people who are not officially members of the SoA, but are brothers and sisters in their hearts. (I am not saying that this pertains or does not pertain to you, Tulihenki, but you post brought this to mind). This means that there are people who lead lives that are based on the same principles as ours.

What Kaula means in the heart of hearts is, I think, - and I am lending these words from the Lotus Sutra - the assembly of humans and nonhumans. And the beginning of such assembly is, of course, to search the understanding of what exactly is a human. This earnest quest for the meaning of life tends to bring hearts into togetherness, and ever closer to this mystery that is spoken of as the assembly.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Differences of Psychic Phenomena in Different Systems

Post by Nefastos »

About the assembly:
obnoxion wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:50 pmWhat Kaula means in the heart of hearts is, I think, - and I am lending these words from the Lotus Sutra - the assembly of humans and nonhumans. And the beginning of such assembly is, of course, to search the understanding of what exactly is a human. This earnest quest for the meaning of life tends to bring hearts into togetherness, and ever closer to this mystery that is spoken of as the assembly.


The Voice of Silence ends with the proclamation of the acknowledgment of the "four truths", of which the second is about this question about "what exactly is human":

Voice of Silence wrote:Hast thou not conquered the Mâras' King at Tsi, the portal of assembling — truth the second?

Footnote:
At the portal of the "assembling" the King of the Mâras the Mahâ Mâra stands trying to blind the candidate by the radiance of his "Jewel."


At the very beginning of the Voice, the identity of this "King of Mâras" has been announced: it is one's own mind. This "Jewel" thus seems to be the Mani of the Aum Mani Padme Hum, the very "jewel in the lotus". Thus this sublime fall is to fall onto the feeling of self, as to renounce the "assembly" and the great Otherness.

This once again comes back to what I rherotorically asked above:

Is not every feeling, every "personal" thought of mine just imprints coming from the multitude of other beings, human and other


Which, in turn, makes forces of everyone: human beings & spiritual entities both. These, while working in unison (in either way of which Ervast wrote about: to influence as "demons" or "angels"; without love or infused with it), make up the whole energetical host. In this case, the difference psychic phenomena in different systems would mean precisely the difference in beings worked with. But which is the by-product and which is the core, that is the question. Also that question was, however, anticipated by the Voice. Its very first line is:

Voice of Silence wrote:These instructions are for those ignorant of the dangers of the lower [S]IDDHI


That is, the teachings is especially needed by the people who do not understand that working for and with magical powers (Pali iddhi, Sanskrit siddhi) is in itself dangerous, when the intention is not absolutely pure.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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