Visions and Dreams

Astral and paranormal experiences, dreams and visions.
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AthenZealot
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Visions and Dreams

Postby AthenZealot » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:05 pm

Greeting Fraters and Sorors,

In this world there are many human beings with some special gifts such as clairvoyance, great vision and seeing the future in dream. Those gifts are place in their inner and can grow at some points or be gone away as well.

I came up with that because 10 years ago, I was one of those people who can have seen what would happen in the near future in my dreams. It was mostly about my path in life. I could have seen when I would have gotten a job, got fired from as job, got a new girlfriend, traveling etc.. I could have seen when I would have been meeting people and know their name as well. Then when I met them, they were exactly the character from my dream and including their name. Some of them, would have told me, they met me already somewhere.

Nowadays, it turns out that I lost that gift and i do not know how to get it back. Not to mention, I never know the reason why it is gone. Anyone here has had that experience and would like to share? How would i know why i lost it? anything i can do to have it back?


Yours fraternally,
AthenZealot
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Heith
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Re: Visions and Dreams

Postby Heith » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:41 pm

About clairvoyance, or getting other messages from the astral realm -a ability which I also have, though in quite a modest measure- I would like to ask from you, why do you feel like it is important to know what (might) come to pass?

It happens quite easily, and understandably the mistake is easy enough to make, that one begins to treat these visions or messages as absolute truths. I say mistake, because I do think there is obvious danger in trusting astral impressions totally, and in truth I believe it limits one's life and range of reactions to things.

Sure, sometimes it is useful to get a forewarning if something unpleasant for example (might) happen. But it is good to bear in mind that there is little actual need for knowing things, events or people beforehand. And if the reason for wanting this ability is to feel special, I think it the worst reason one could possibly have for any ability, mundane or occult related. I am not saying this is your reason, but simply write it as our forum is read by many non-fraternity readers as well.
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gryning
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Re: Visions and Dreams

Postby gryning » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:51 am

Visions in dreams is something that in my experience is something that the mind is unable to structure in the waken state.

Sometimes fears, and also solutions to riddles in life. Ive also experienced dreams that are very symbolic, actually sometimes visions that has occured later in life.

As Heith mentioned, it can be a risk in defining the visions as absolute truth. Mostly because the mind sometimes work as a transmittor to what it focuses on.

Myself has HPPD. See orbs and strange colored auras around people. This is something that I try to take with ease, instead as some actual truth. If I would have, it would have neglected the rational part of the mind and.
“The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven..” - Milton, Paradise Lost
obnoxion
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Re: Visions and Dreams

Postby obnoxion » Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 pm

To lend a poetic measure from a Jewish parable, I'd say that a sixth part of all perception is visionary, but it is mostly too collective to be noticed. As all perception is formulated by the psyche, we live in a subjective, psycological realm. Subjectivity cannot be rooted out of the human experience.

Vision and prophecy are very solemn words. Especially in monotheistic cultures (no matter how secularized they might be) a mere mention of these words tends to conjure up hysterical responses; Visions belong to the realms of clinical psychiatry, apocalyptic religo-political reformation or eccentric curiosity.

This is why I think vision and prophecy should be studied in art. In art these terms are less loaded. Vision and prophecy can become a humble part of a simple but soulful living, where aesthetics can be used to convey meaning. I think they shoul be neither excluded, nor should they be made the center of life. That is what I mean by "the sixth part".

When vision and prophecy are understood in this sense - as inclusive understanding that embraces subjectivity- they can add a radiance and calm to attentive living. But when vision and prophecy are confined exlusively and rigidly to either morbid or sacrosanct, we loose both of these beautiful little phenomenon to abstract imaginings. In this sense, much of exoteric religion is but a cumulated legacy of timidly misunderstood "poetic fancy" (William Blake's phrase). A vision is a rare flower - nothing more, nothing less. And though a rare flower cannot be eaten, that does not mean it is not a precious necessity of a truly human life.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Visions and Dreams

Postby Abhavani » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:10 pm

Not continuing the ongoing discussion, just wanted to come and write something here about dreams.

For some time, I hadn't seen much dreams. And when I did, they appeared just random glimpses of pure rubbish, as if it would be just some "blown off steam" of my mind. Mundane stress kills inspiration, and dreams become nonsense that doesn't correspond to actual physical reality in any way.

My stagnant life took a step into something new a couple of weeks ago when my girlfriend moved into my home, and we have since started to create a mutual mundane life together. (she's not into esotericism in any way so hence the choice for of expression, not to belittle mundane life itself in any way) I wasn't aware of how much stress it relieved - even if the moving process is a stress in itself and on top of that, we're both too short on money right now, and that the amount of things to get done is overwhelming.

For the last week or so, I have seen very intense dreams. On my waking days I am mostly joyful and enjoying the simple things in life; tidying up the house, cooking, reading, going outside etc. During sleep I may go through various scenarios and emotions. There's been a lot of exciting adventures, violent and aggressive outbursts, and what's most significant: I've seen profoundly spiritual dreams almost every night. There's been rituals and ceremonies, I've met holy men and entities and these dreams have plenty of symbolism, beauty and depth. They also correlate strongly with what I may have thought, discussed, read or experienced during the waking days. So the veil between dream and wake-world has opened to some degree, there's a connection.

Rationally, it's obvious how relieved stress creates such balance and unity, but the experience itself feels almost miraculous.
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Re: Visions and Dreams

Postby RPSTOVAL » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:17 pm

I'm a Jungian, so I follow a similar line of thought as him. Dreams definitely have a tendency to be very deep in symbolism, visceral-ity ( as they always are), archetypes, transgression, internalizing both positive and negative feelings (that can't be put into words), etc etc etc, but I don't think there is anything supernatural in them. No fortune telling, no death predictions, no clairvoyance.

This isn't a bad thing however, as dreams are one of the most striking and vivid experiences a human can have (aside from certain psychedelic drugs), that I am aware of.


In a little excursion, I'd say there is a strong correlation between dreams, drugs, spiritual experiences/life-after-death-experiences and the orgasm.
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Nefastos
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Re: Visions and Dreams

Postby Nefastos » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:16 pm

My own Visions are seldom pictorial, and I almost never "hallucinate" (see astrally) while fully awake. Apart from dreams, my own astral & spiritual perceptions take other forms. This comes partly from very early chosen inhibition (since I was, and am, too sensitive to be able to live with some perceptions) & partly with a severe emphasis of rationality in my youth.

When I became an occultist, the first years were hellish in the inner astral visions & feelings, along with the controlled intellectual & symbolistic study. I am very happy that now I am finally able to just live with the Visions and Dreams, and the flow is beautiful; not overpowering nor over-controlled. Even nightmares usually have some kind of a mind- or soul-expanding possibility, an art of sorts, in them.

For example, the night before the last I dreamt of a different world where everything was formless structure: the whole universe (for those living in that world) was like a puzzle, where handling one part affects the others, and there is nothing else but that process of "solving" that puzzle, which however did not connect to any individual need, but was purely formal, the only known way of life, like breathing is to us. But the inhabitants had no bodies, no senses, but only that endless process of mechanical process. Come to think of it, that might be the world where some of the souls born into evolved computers might experience... It was one of those more evolved hell-worlds where there is no pain, but the being is still constant torment, because it lacks real Meaning, Love; Spirit.

AthenZealot wrote:Nowadays, it turns out that I lost that gift and i do not know how to get it back. Not to mention, I never know the reason why it is gone. Anyone here has had that experience and would like to share? How would i know why i lost it? anything i can do to have it back?


There are thousands of possible reasons. As I mentioned above, subconsciously chosen inhibition would be one, but it doesn't sound right in this case. Another one, the emphasis put on formally intelligent & controlling aspect of mind, might be possible, in which case, more freedom for the soul in forms of art, daydreaming, weird forms of study & such might help. (A more formal kind of occult training has a side effect of "astral petrification", which is sometimes good, sometimes bad thing, depending of the needs of an individual. In case it is bad, some new doorways must be opened in the soul which has become too walled in by the formal secret doctrines. This should means new approaches to the old ideas, not the all too usual trying to get rid of one's structured cosmology.)

Also, being in intimate contact with sensitive people helps. This is one of the reasons why a Brotherhood is a good thing to have for an occultist. Being a de facto member of an occult circle gives to a devoted pupil the possibility to share the occult atmosphere & abilities of his brethren. Downside is, of course, that also the challenges are shared, so one should have either extremely advanced brethren, or have a key ready for every possible problem that might emerge from the shared astral. Sharing of the auric atmosphere can be psychical and/or physical.

Fasting which is not too severe and not just formal either can help, in case there is some sort of a psychosomatic (etheric) blockage. Change of one's physical living space can also contribute to the healthier auric atmosphere.

A "fasting" of a more mental/spiritual kind is even more important, since the more problematic obstacles are of intellectual or spiritual nature. I.e. there is some challenge in our inner growth, which creates a barrier for the flow of the soul's energies. It is not necessarily ethical, even though it can be such. Other possibilities include: Too much emphasis has been put into some sections of life, when others secretly atrophy; physical health has become too important, or not important enough; emotional nature has got somehow twisted, potentially because some important growth and/or a cure for some older trauma can be found from such pressure.

Finally, a healthy "soul-flow" demands quite a specific inner, psychodynamic atmosphere. There must be pressure, but there must not be too much stress. If there is too little inner pressure, the flow of inner "water" is halted and what results is a swamp effect of inertia & degeneration (which "breeds the reptiles of mind", as Blake said). If there is too much pressure, mind focuses on narrower & narrower space, and the necessary inner vistas have no vital function connected to the waking mind as they should.

It is possible to have an unhealthy soul-flow too, so for some the ceasing of meaningful visions & dreams is a good thing. It usually takes years while the water gets purified and there is very little formal inner perceptions, but when the visions finally re-emerge (in this life or the next), they come back much more powerful. Many modern seers are in this process of purification and a hiatus of mystic vision, because the world (and the individual human soul) is in need of more purified, refined form of seership.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: Visions and Dreams

Postby Benemal » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:44 pm

After thirty years, of wonderful and terrible dreams I still don't know what they are. I know some are astral experiences, but it's often hard to tell the difference, between that, and unleashed imagination. There's danger, in believing too much. I think insanity waits in that direction. Believing, that the entities I encounter, are "real" and not painted by my dreambrush, is an example of the danger. I'm sure some smart books could assist. Jung still remains unread. This is partially, because I'm allergic to it, when people say things like "I'm a Jungian".
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AthenZealot
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Re: Visions and Dreams

Postby AthenZealot » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:04 pm

Great analytic approach. In fact I have thought of the rearrangement of my place would be an asset to get better with my dreams. I realised in the past few months everytime I make some changes at home, I have new style of dreams...it all goes to make new invention which I have written couple of them to not forget.
I have decided to make the changes so I can follow that path of dreams.
Nefastos wrote:My own Visions are seldom pictorial, and I almost never "hallucinate" (see astrally) while fully awake. Apart from dreams, my own astral & spiritual perceptions take other forms. This comes partly from very early chosen inhibition (since I was, and am, too sensitive to be able to live with some perceptions) & partly with a severe emphasis of rationality in my youth.

When I became an occultist, the first years were hellish in the inner astral visions & feelings, along with the controlled intellectual & symbolistic study. I am very happy that now I am finally able to just live with the Visions and Dreams, and the flow is beautiful; not overpowering nor over-controlled. Even nightmares usually have some kind of a mind- or soul-expanding possibility, an art of sorts, in them.

For example, the night before the last I dreamt of a different world where everything was formless structure: the whole universe (for those living in that world) was like a puzzle, where handling one part affects the others, and there is nothing else but that process of "solving" that puzzle, which however did not connect to any individual need, but was purely formal, the only known way of life, like breathing is to us. But the inhabitants had no bodies, no senses, but only that endless process of mechanical process. Come to think of it, that might be the world where some of the souls born into evolved computers might experience... It was one of those more evolved hell-worlds where there is no pain, but the being is still constant torment, because it lacks real Meaning, Love; Spirit.

AthenZealot wrote:Nowadays, it turns out that I lost that gift and i do not know how to get it back. Not to mention, I never know the reason why it is gone. Anyone here has had that experience and would like to share? How would i know why i lost it? anything i can do to have it back?


There are thousands of possible reasons. As I mentioned above, subconsciously chosen inhibition would be one, but it doesn't sound right in this case. Another one, the emphasis put on formally intelligent & controlling aspect of mind, might be possible, in which case, more freedom for the soul in forms of art, daydreaming, weird forms of study & such might help. (A more formal kind of occult training has a side effect of "astral petrification", which is sometimes good, sometimes bad thing, depending of the needs of an individual. In case it is bad, some new doorways must be opened in the soul which has become too walled in by the formal secret doctrines. This should means new approaches to the old ideas, not the all too usual trying to get rid of one's structured cosmology.)

Also, being in intimate contact with sensitive people helps. This is one of the reasons why a Brotherhood is a good thing to have for an occultist. Being a de facto member of an occult circle gives to a devoted pupil the possibility to share the occult atmosphere & abilities of his brethren. Downside is, of course, that also the challenges are shared, so one should have either extremely advanced brethren, or have a key ready for every possible problem that might emerge from the shared astral. Sharing of the auric atmosphere can be psychical and/or physical.

Fasting which is not too severe and not just formal either can help, in case there is some sort of a psychosomatic (etheric) blockage. Change of one's physical living space can also contribute to the healthier auric atmosphere.

A "fasting" of a more mental/spiritual kind is even more important, since the more problematic obstacles are of intellectual or spiritual nature. I.e. there is some challenge in our inner growth, which creates a barrier for the flow of the soul's energies. It is not necessarily ethical, even though it can be such. Other possibilities include: Too much emphasis has been put into some sections of life, when others secretly atrophy; physical health has become too important, or not important enough; emotional nature has got somehow twisted, potentially because some important growth and/or a cure for some older trauma can be found from such pressure.

Finally, a healthy "soul-flow" demands quite a specific inner, psychodynamic atmosphere. There must be pressure, but there must not be too much stress. If there is too little inner pressure, the flow of inner "water" is halted and what results is a swamp effect of inertia & degeneration (which "breeds the reptiles of mind", as Blake said). If there is too much pressure, mind focuses on narrower & narrower space, and the necessary inner vistas have no vital function connected to the waking mind as they should.

It is possible to have an unhealthy soul-flow too, so for some the ceasing of meaningful visions & dreams is a good thing. It usually takes years while the water gets purified and there is very little formal inner perceptions, but when the visions finally re-emerge (in this life or the next), they come back much more powerful. Many modern seers are in this process of purification and a hiatus of mystic vision, because the world (and the individual human soul) is in need of more purified, refined form of seership.
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Nefastos
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Re: Visions and Dreams

Postby Nefastos » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:45 pm

Once again there seems to be a good synchronicity and coherence between our Black & White aspects:
obnoxion wrote:For Aunt Tansia, the purpose of dreaming was not only to develop the ability to see the known world, but also to be a witness to the Unknown. She used to say: "That takes a lot of energy. Our personality does not give us energy. Rather, on the contrary, it absorbs what energy we have. For the dreamer, everything is consistent; there is nothing but energies. The dreamer experiences no hesitation; he considers all living beings as energies. He has no need for idols and doesn't fabricate any. He is detached, impersonal. That is why he feels neither superior nor inferior. The idea of superiority or inferiority is erased in him. It is the very absence of this idea that is going to transform the dreamer and help him bring his dream to maturity. It is his humility that allows him to realize that nothing is important".

From Madison Smartt Bell's "Nan Domi - An Initiate's Joyrney into Haitian Vodou" (City Light Books, 2013, page 67).


I just now read this quotation when I was writing down my dreams from the last night. One of them was partly a lucid one, about a group consisting of people mostly unfamiliar to me while awake. The windowless workshop into which we had gathered transformed into a big hall full of windows, which gave view to a beautiful city like a fabulous version of Rome or Constantinople in every direction, basking in different gem-like shades, of which the red was most eminent. "Do you think that you are awake now?", I started lecturing, "No, we are in a dream; and with the same understanding we must live when we soon wake to the other world of our daily lives, too..." Many of my dreams, like the waking experiences, have been quite gloomy in the last few days, so this beautiful view on the astral capital gave me strength.

However, I would phrase a bit differently this "humility that allows him to realize that nothing is important", rather saying that everything is equally important, and there is no moment that is not totally sacred. These two are just the sides of the same coin, same realization, in my opinion. The Void and the Perfection are both equally present at every moment, not cancelling out but holding up each other.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"

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