Lucid Dreaming

Astral and paranormal experiences, dreams and visions.
Summanus
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:06 am

Lucid Dreaming

Postby Summanus » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:26 am

I wanted to open a new topic about lucid dreaming so people can share their experiences and have a discussion on the topic. I’ll begin by presenting one that I had about 5 years back when I was doing Lucid dreaming experimentation. I wrote my experience in my magic journal the very moment after I woke up from it so the dream description is very close to what it was.

BEGIN JOURNAL:

It was the last of a series of dream I was having that night. By the end of the dream I was coming out of a kick boxing match. Some young kid named O’Neil (never seen him) won the match. I felt it was a fair judgment. So I stepped out of the building and that’s were the lucid dream began. I was going to the process of waking up but caught myself from exiting the dream. I immediately notice that, when I step out of the building, I step into total darkness. After assuring myself that I was still dreaming I got very excited and said to myself, “Ok, let’s explore this world”. At that moment this amazing world came into being. Colors were so bright and everything looked so real. The light source seems to come from everywhere even the sky, like sort of glow. The place I was in was like a small town with buildings no taller than two stories. There was a small theater to my left, the street was below me, a small plaza with trees at twelve o’clock low (NOTE: In my dreams I can usually fly, at this moment I was hovering a few meters above ground). It was either dawn or sunset. But the most surprising thing was that I was looking with stereoscopic vision (3D). It was the depth perception that made everything looked so real.

As I flew to a different part of town I recalled that I should put my attention to something interesting. There was this object in front of me that looked out of place because it did not look real. I was wondering if I put my attention it will schemer and disappear but it remained the same. Here I recalled what I read in two books written by Carlos Castaneda (Journey to Ixtlan and The Art of Dreaming) and immediately stared at my hand. It was very thin and slender, almost ghost like. It remained real for a short period then the fingers started to multiply and then blurred. The whole hand blurred shortly after.

I continue my travel but this time I was floating close to the ground more than flying. I passed between two crystal clear, almost mirror like ponds in the middle of another plaza. The ponds were enclosed in symmetrically correct rectangles made of concrete. This plaza was enclosed by pillars, behind the pillars there were walls. At one end of the plaza were the pathway ended, there was somebody standing, looking sort of surprise to me. The man had dirty blond hair; he was short and a bit overweight. I wanted to see what would happen if I talk to him. I asked for his name and he, still looking surprise and in a low voice said “Allen” or a name close to that. That was when I noticed a beautiful woman standing next to him looking at me even more surprise, her mouth open. This woman did not look real in contrast with the guy. She was red head, awesome cheekbones, she had everything in a woman that I find beautiful but multiplied by a factor of two. I continue my conversation with the man ignoring the woman. I asked him where was he from. He answered repeating my question back to me as he looked down. With his head still down he looked back at me with a sneer. Here I pulled out of the dream.

Comments:
There are a few things I noticed in this dream. There was no sound or smells. Even my short conversation with Allen was sort of telepathic but not the way I though telepathy should be. We were sharing not reading each other thoughts. The whole time I was afraid that the dream would wither and disappear, but all the way to the end everything looked rock solid. I remember very well my waking-up experience. I did not feel pull out nor passing through a tunnel. It is better described as a phase out. I am in this alternate world then I stepped out into darkness. As time moves on, the waking world concept begin to feel more real and closer and the other world begins to feel more distant like it was a dream. Last I gently open my eyes.

END JOURNAL

Please share you lucid dreams if you please. If you have any question about mine I’ll be happy to answer. I’m a very busy person so I’ll try to reply as soon as I can.
Patientia et Diciplinae
User avatar
Nefastos
Frater
Posts: 3431
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Lucid Dreaming

Postby Nefastos » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:50 pm

Thank you for the journal! I think it's very good to keep that kind of scientific attitude towards psychic or parapsychological phenomena; to put down details how the perception in altered states of mind work. It helps to de-mystify the experiences that are not fundamentally spiritual, but astral, and hence to distinguish between those two worlds.

I'd like to tell one little episode from a lucid dream - or however we want to call it - that was one of those which made me to abandon that kind of working.

I was very elated, because I was fully conscious in this another world, and I was accepted to be initiated there. It seemed like a big accomplishment, something I had strived for a long time. But when I was speaking with the hierophant after (or was it before?) the actual ceremony, he gave me some answers - and how he gave them - that gave me serious second thoughts.

For I was thinking that he & his group was part of the brotherhood I was trying to contact and work for, and asked (I had just finished writing Finnish Fosforos then) had he seen my book & did he think that I had got right that inspiration I was trying to follow. To my surprise, the hierophant sneered at that, giving his opinion that the inspiration was indeed from that particular brotherhood, but he considered its message of truth and love weak. That supposedly grand initiator gave such a low impression with this opinion of his, not giving his work for the "central lodge" but trying to dismiss its teaching, that it was one of many things that made me abandon astral working almost completely.

After that experience, I have seen the same problem going on again with other people. Whether they know it or not, the bigger part of the occult strive goes towards astral working, and the small seed of selfishness that's often present in the astral work puts these neophytes in contact with astral brotherhoods that are not actually part of the deeper occult world, but only working their lesser magic on the edge of the psychic world of mâya.

It's very interesting and good work that can be done with lucid dreaming & other astral experiments, but we must keep ourselves extremely alert not to confuse the astral brotherhoods with those with actual spiritual depth in them. Because this is one of the most important things I have tried to emphasise in the practical occult working of the Star of Azazel, I think it will come up many times in these English discussions, too...
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
obnoxion
Sodalis
Posts: 1766
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:59 pm

Re: Lucid Dreaming

Postby obnoxion » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:31 am

Years ago i too did practice lucid dreaming, and i approached it from purely technical bases. I used some common methods to induce lucidity in the dreamstate (i basicly question consistently in my waking state "is this a dream", and then i went to switch tle lights in the room off and back on. When you do this in a dream, the mechanism of the lights is usually strange in some way, and this helps you realize you're having a dream). I made a very consistent and rigid practice out of it, and i did have success.

I did manage to meditate in an asana and perform half a ritual in a lucid state. But always before i attained to the lucid state, my dreams turned in to most horrific nightmares. I cleared my way through these nighmare visions with a magical dagger, which i always visualized in my hand when i became lucid.

In the end, i started to question the usefulness of my practice. The constat nightmares and the violent solution to them didn't seem at all consistent with my spiritual prioirities, and i've abandoned the practice for now. I do think that when i used the "magical dagger", i actually used it against my own psychic structures, which i had agitated into a frenzy by my unnecessarily rigid practice. I was actually harming myself, and i imagined that i was gaining power over myself while i was actually making myself into a psychic invalid.

I know that Dream Yoga is an integral practice of spiritual traditions. But here the practice is not only secondary to spiritual or ethical pirorities, and always monitored by a competent guru.

When we practice lucid dreaming, we would do well to consider the dangers involved. This doesn't mean that we should'nt practice it at all, only that we should approach the practice properly.

I still do enjoy occasional & spontaneus lucidity in dreamstate. If these states contain nighmarish elements, instead of using violente defence, i strive to cultivate the attitude of chöd, and feeding myself to these demonic apparitons with as perfect compassion and acceptence as i can. This aprroach has led me to a more peaceful state of mind, which lingers long into the waking state.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
User avatar
Antiochus
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:07 pm

Re: Lucid Dreaming

Postby Antiochus » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:40 pm

Hello,
I found this thread very interesting as it relates to something I have some familiarity with (parasomnias and lucid dream phenomenon). I certainly agree that everything within the world of phenomenon should be approached with caution. Experiences within the "astral" tend to lead us to place too much weight upon the experiences themselves simply because they break from the norm, of what we experience in day to day "waking" life and thus can leave such a deep impression. Uncommon and fantastical phenomenological occurrences in general can be a huge distraction and derail one from a path that leads beyond phenomenology, so all such experiences should be viewed with a measure of caution. Due to the fantastical nature and un-commonality of such dreams, plus the tendency to lapse in maintaining true lucidity (dividing the common dream from that which might possibly be more than subconscious wanderings and residue) likely makes one more susceptible to either being purposefully mislead by negative forces, or the pitfalls of ego based interpretations. However, with that said and these warnings kept in mind I also think it is important to express the validity and possibility of actual initiation within the astral state via lucidity while dreaming the "dreams that are not dreams". To completely discount the possibility of spiritual contact and initiation within these states is to discount entire traditions of magical initiation, from the Greek incubation traditions to the dream sabbath of European witchcraft.

Brother A-
Pete solem in domo Erebi.
User avatar
Nefastos
Frater
Posts: 3431
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Lucid Dreaming

Postby Nefastos » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:52 am

Indeed I think those contacts are, for many a true aspirant, true & not fantasy at all. Even to those for whom they contain a hefty part of fantasy & illusion, there's nearly always at least a grain of truth to be found.

Because I have quite strictly voiced my concerns about letting oneself loose to astral workings, some brethren (& outsiders) might think the astral working is always ill-advised in the Star of Azazel. That is not the case. We simply demand much more care & grounding for it than other occult societies. The astral world is true, in its own way, & should not be disregarded.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
User avatar
Antiochus
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:07 pm

Re: Lucid Dreaming

Postby Antiochus » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:03 pm

Nefastos wrote:Indeed I think those contacts are, for many a true aspirant, true & not fantasy at all. Even to those for whom they contain a hefty part of fantasy & illusion, there's nearly always at least a grain of truth to be found.

Because I have quite strictly voiced my concerns about letting oneself loose to astral workings, some brethren (& outsiders) might think the astral working is always ill-advised in the Star of Azazel. That is not the case. We simply demand much more care & grounding for it than other occult societies. The astral world is true, in its own way, & should not be disregarded.
I fully agree. These things should certainly be approached with a measure of caution and thoroughly evaluated after every experience.
Pete solem in domo Erebi.
User avatar
Jiva
Frater
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:13 am

Re: Lucid Dreaming

Postby Jiva » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:22 pm

This topic touches on some very important issues as I think dreams are one of the primary ways in which people explore esotericism/occultism.

Personally, I don't experience that many dreams that focus on coherent events, although I suppose I have 2-3 a year that feature some sort of guiding hierophant which have some degree of choice and lucidity. I don't see any arguments between the characters I and the hierophant inhabit as particularly problematic. This is mainly due to interpreting confrontation, violence etc. in a mythological manner and thus symbolic of something other than the simple acts themselves. Additionally, I am also a fan of Jung who encountered many difficulties with Elijah/Philemon (his hierophant) and Salome (his anima) as recorded in the Red Book and therefore see this as a natural process, although I realise that one could consider this self-fulfilling in a way.

I have never really tried to intentionally develop lucid dreaming in regards to making it a skill. Having said that it does seem to occur more if I meditate more frequently and for longer periods of time. I also record any dreams that I deem of any importance which I guess could encourage this kind of dreaming. The only problem I've encountered is related to hypnopompia (thanks Wikipedia!) and continuing to see and experience various things when I wake up, which sounds like Obnoxion's problem in reverse.
Antiochus wrote:Due to the fantastical nature and un-commonality of such dreams, plus the tendency to lapse in maintaining true lucidity (dividing the common dream from that which might possibly be more than subconscious wanderings and residue) likely makes one more susceptible to either being purposefully mislead by negative forces, or the pitfalls of ego based interpretations. However, with that said and these warnings kept in mind I also think it is important to express the validity and possibility of actual initiation within the astral state via lucidity while dreaming the "dreams that are not dreams".
I think this is the tightrope one has to walk, one where mistakes pretty much have to be made on the path to experience. As an example, there was one particular dream last year during which I made what I then considered a terrible choice and was absolutely furious with myself for months before I finally reconsidered and saw some value. During the months when I perceived this choice as a serious and unquestionable failure, I was undoubtedly negatively effected in some way.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest