Astral Initiations

Astral and paranormal experiences, dreams and visions.
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Boreas
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Astral Initiations

Postby Boreas » Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:48 pm

The thread about failed astral tests sparked in me an idea about astral initiations and tests in general. Like frater Nefastos said in that other thread, I think these should be always taken with a grain of salt and it is important not to place too much emphasis on astral phenomena. In this thread one can talk about astral initiations in general and also about the tests one has encountered in a dream state.

I'd like to start this thread with a dream initiation that happened a few years back. In the dream I was with other brethren (including both known and unknown members of SoA) in a great hall. In the center of the hall was a fiery pit. Lucifer was in the dream a very high ranking mentor who was supervising a test in which one had to jump into the pit; he appeared like a judge who was almost loathful of the human members taking the test, but already in the dream I interpreted this "loathfulness" being only his utmost neutrality and righteousness. When my time came, I immediately jumped into the pit, and after falling for a time I suddenly knew how to fly and flew back into my place around the pit. Lucifer nodded as a sign of approval, and the test was over for my part. When I woke from the dream it reminded me of the red aspect rehearsal of the fiery pit.

All in all, when I was still a member of the brotherhood I saw dreams about different kind of tests almost weekly. They always included numerous other people taking the same test.
It is by standing on the shoulders of giants one can reach for the sky.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Astral Initiations

Postby Polyhymnia » Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:19 am

What an amazing dream. Thank you for sharing. This actually reminds me of a very strong vision I had the last calendary rite, and it shares a few noteworthy similarities.

I was in a room of deep red with several brethren, all known to me, who were seated at a long, black table. There was a shadow figure above the table, watching over us. Slowly I materialized from the centre of the table, performing a slow dance. My brothers started to control some of my movements as red thread materialized on my limbs. We all started to move together, as fire began to dance all around us. The vision then moved to a black house, and then my eyes snapped open.

I shared this with one of the brothers immediately after it happened, and he pointed out some very interesting synchronicities pertaining to the red aspect that were relevant to happenings within our lodge.

I've been thinking about it every since it happened. I'm unsure if it was an initiation of any kind, though it certainly felt like it in some ways. Whatever it was, it felt very powerful.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Re: Astral Initiations

Postby Boreas » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:49 pm

I must hasten to add that I don't believe in such fantasies as "initiations in the astral world" per sae, only to the extent that the astral happenings reflect what one goes through in waking consciousness.

An interesting dream I had a few years ago was that of Väinämöinen initiating Pekka Ervast into Finnish / Kalevala mysteries. In the dream I was in the backseat of a temple which was full of very lightful beings (humans). The initiation of Ervast happened in front of the temple. I saw only his backside, and Väinämöinen was in front of the temple, where he touched Ervast with his sceptre to both shoulders.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Astral Initiations

Postby Polyhymnia » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:08 pm

Boreas wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:49 pm
I must hasten to add that I don't believe in such fantasies as "initiations in the astral world" per sae, only to the extent that the astral happenings reflect what one goes through in waking consciousness.
Hm, yes, I think I feel more or less the same. Though I've definitely noticed some very interesting coincidences when partaking in astral work with other people. Almost as though the streamlining of energies makes those synchronicities possible.
I suppose I haven't quite had enough experience to be able to say with any complete certainty exactly what I believe.
The more I advance down my path the more my sense of reason is challenged.
Boreas wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:27 pm
An interesting dream I had a few years ago was that of Väinämöinen initiating Pekka Ervast into Finnish / Kalevala mysteries. In the dream I was in the backseat of a temple which was full of very lightful beings (humans). The initiation of Ervast happened in front of the temple. I saw only his backside, and Väinämöinen was in front of the temple, where he touched Ervast with his sceptre to both shoulders.
I wasn't familiar with Väinämöinen, so I'm currently reading up on Finnish myths. Very interesting dream.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Re: Astral Initiations

Postby Cerastes » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:18 pm

Boreas wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:49 pm
I must hasten to add that I don't believe in such fantasies as "initiations in the astral world" per sae, only to the extent that the astral happenings reflect what one goes through in waking consciousness.
There are many different interpretations of the astral realm. I have come to the conclusion that it is not limited to what is going on in -my- (sub)consciousness. At least to me it feels more like a connected state of mind.

That said I had some very intense dreams in the last weeks that almost felt like I was experiencing someone else's trauma. I don‘t really want to discribe what exactly happens in those dreams but they are rather disturbing and can‘t recall dreaming something like this before. It can probably be called a test or an initiation, I‘m not yet sure about the cause and the effect.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Re: Astral Initiations

Postby Boreas » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:46 pm

Cerastes wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:18 pm
There are many different interpretations of the astral realm. I have come to the conclusion that it is not limited to what is going on in -my- (sub)consciousness. At least to me it feels more like a connected state of mind.
I tend to see the astral realm as a plane of reflection, where in itself there is no movement so to say, but that reflects what happens in the waking, sub- and super-consciousness. But who is to say that it is limited to that, in itself it still remains the world of glamour and illusion, which is why I don't believe one can take any initiations in the astral, when speaking of initiation in its strict, almost technical sense.

At the time of that fiery pit dream I had been struggling with fear a lot, and this seemed like some kind of an overcoming of basic fear I suffered then.
It is by standing on the shoulders of giants one can reach for the sky.
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Re: Astral Initiations

Postby Smaragd » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:13 am

Boreas wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:46 pm
At the time of that fiery pit dream I had been struggling with fear a lot, and this seemed like some kind of an overcoming of basic fear I suffered then.
This reminded of my zombie dreams during puberty. I saw the Dawn of the Dead when I was 7 years old. The film, illegal in Finland at the time, left me quite shocked and during the early teenage years I saw alot of zombie nightmares. Around 16-17 years of old the nightmare tone started to change towards emancipation, for zombie apocalypse meant the fall of "civilization", which was something to wait for at the time. Instead of flying I often ran half in air in outdoors and some industrial facilities, the latter which itself was another image of emancipation as their purpose and meaning had sort of emptied from the mechanical torture, an assembly line work can be seen as for creatures that are not limited to mechanical nature. Thus the dreams seemed to mirror and be part of the process of overcoming an irrational fear and turning it to empowerment. I've come down many times after that, but some very persistent and drowning locks certainly opened for good during this time. I think here the astral initiation was indeed part of the process as it allowed me to convey myself back to the energetical state of joy and aliveness. The same thing had to be repeated in the waking state, which is much harder, and actially has to be repeated there continuously over and over again.
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Re: Astral Initiations

Postby obnoxion » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:41 am

Back in the day when our first, closed forum was founded, I saw a dream where Kenneth Grant gave me an initiation. He was a major influence on me back then. I do not remember what exactly happened, but it was a special dream in ways that are difficult to describe. I think there were elements of waking dream in it. And I think there were elements of the LBRP in it, which had been my regular practice for a long time.

Many here have regreted how they didn't go through the door. As I discussed about the dream on the forum, I became worried that I, so to speak, went through the door; I was worried if I over-appreciated astral initiations, and didn't appreciate their dangers enough. But I think that my worries perhaps cleared the air. My interest in Thelema had already begun to fade, and it was mainly the Typhonian elements that were of interest to me. Kenneth Grant's ideas about the Left Hand Path being feminine, poetic, private, "widdershins" and gothic affair, still resonate strongly with me. I also look up to how he and Steffi Grant staid commited to their long marriage, and managed to lead very private lives despite their public work. So I think the dream was, if nothing else, a gathering of deep sympathies on a common ground.

I think I will remember the dream for the rest of my life. But I don't suppose there is any way of knowing what effects it had on me. That is one of the problems of these astral initiations. If they have an effect on the dreamer, and especially if that effect is a negative one, one wouldn't likely be able to notice it in one's self. As for my dream, the fact that it has staid in my mind for so long could be a sign that there was some kind of an effect on me. I just have little chance to know what it was.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Astral Initiations

Postby Boreas » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:24 am

obnoxion wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:41 am
I think I will remember the dream for the rest of my life. But I don't suppose there is any way of knowing what effects it had on me. That is one of the problems of these astral initiations. If they have an effect on the dreamer, and especially if that effect is a negative one, one wouldn't likely be able to notice it in one's self. As for my dream, the fact that it has staid in my mind for so long could be a sign that there was some kind of an effect on me. I just have little chance to know what it was.
Maybe these kind of astral initiations could be classified as virtual initiations, namely that they can transmit some kind of spiritual influences to the dreamer, but that the initiation remains in a sort of dormant state if one doesn't act upon it consciously.

(I'm sure if one would ask about the matter from Guenon he would classify any other form than a strict technical initiation as pseudo- or counter-initiation.)
Polyhymnia wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:10 pm
Boreas wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:27 pm
An interesting dream I had a few years ago was that of Väinämöinen initiating Pekka Ervast into Finnish / Kalevala mysteries. In the dream I was in the backseat of a temple which was full of very lightful beings (humans). The initiation of Ervast happened in front of the temple. I saw only his backside, and Väinämöinen was in front of the temple, where he touched Ervast with his sceptre to both shoulders.
I wasn't familiar with Väinämöinen, so I'm currently reading up on Finnish myths. Very interesting dream.
Ervast considered Väinämöinen as being a sort of national deva, a being who was once a man but who ascended to the rank of an Angel and who watches over Finland as an esoteric guardian of sorts. Ervast also believed that Väinämöinen serves Christ and he fathomed a future for Finland in which the Heathen mysteries of Kalevala would be combines with Christian Esoterism. This is also why he himself combined Kalevala and Christian Esoterism in the work of Ruusu-Risti.

I have taken very much inspiration from this train of thought and I believe that the proposed Home-coming of Väinämöinen from his self-imposed exile will be equivalent for Finland what the second coming of Christ is for Christians; a new age of renewed interest in high culture and spirituality. (One can take this as a subjective counter-poison to my usual cultural pessimism.)
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Re: Astral Initiations

Postby Nefastos » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:33 am

These things happen, but they are not "actual" initiations, in the meaning of the word that I use in my writings. True initiation changes one totally, because it brings him de facto closer to the God within, and everywhere. Such initiations are accomplished by the greatest amount of Work and true metanoia: the whole world within shakes, changes and awakens, because one as a soul has been himself worthy for the change. Such accomplishments cannot be given to anyone; "adept is not made", but rather he gives birth to himself, by the Master within. Naturally occult brotherhoods in physical & astral worlds can try to help in that, but their help is only human, and prone to mistakes. Initiations of which we are able to talk as events are not the most meaningful initiations.

I have two astral initiations that I recall. By this I mean that I was awake in the other world when my body was asleep, and was taken in to two different groups (one a Left Hand Path, another a Right Hand Path brotherhood). The first one of these felt quit an accomplishment at the time. Yet the most important about both of these initiations were actually the implications and explanations they gave about the interconnections of the individual and shared astral working.

Boreas wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:48 pm
Like frater Nefastos said in that other thread, I think these should be always taken with a grain of salt and it is important not to place too much emphasis on astral phenomena.

The reason why I wouldn't encourage too much talk about these things is that so many people give too much credit for astral and other supernatural phenomena, when they should put 100 % of their attention to the Work, meaning most of all the overall ethical effort. If that is not done, even the most gaudy initiations are just vaudeville, an aesthetical side of occultism, id est, not occultism at all.

Cerastes wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:18 pm
There are many different interpretations of the astral realm. I have come to the conclusion that it is not limited to what is going on in -my- (sub)consciousness. At least to me it feels more like a connected state of mind.

Astral states are extremely difficult to speak of using with this one only term. In my next Unseen Fire article, I will try to elaborate the term a little.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"

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