Symbolism in Dreams

Symbols and allegories.
User avatar
nocturne ignis
Frater
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:36 am

Re: Symbolism in Dreams

Post by nocturne ignis »

Dear Sister "This isn't quite what I meant in our discussion, as I'm not even sure where I stand regarding the dream world and astral attacks."

I am aware that this is not you mentioned, i did! I just included as part of the conversation. What make thought of that, simultaneously same night ,more than one member of the brotherhood have had nightmares of being bullied. Could be also the Energie current of the night , as other 2 people that do not practice nor study occultism had nightmare that weekend of bulling. How interesting. I am aware of the conversation we had that night that happened you were the first person that came to mind that is why I approached you. Please forgive me if i could build a more elaborated context.

My apologies I understand that a comment like that may be compromising. I'll be more careful next time if any, of how i use my vocabulary.

I have had re occuring dreams that i see my self in that shape, could be my subcoucious anger manifesting in that form. Or a simbol of spiritual unity .
User avatar
Polyhymnia
Soror
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Re: Symbolism in Dreams

Post by Polyhymnia »

Nefastos wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:11 am From Kafka I learned how one can use the noose of neurotic mind to make a magical rope, leading elsewhere.

Hm. Note to self: read Kafka.
Nefastos wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:11 am
Perhaps we could continue an older discussion, Synchronicity & Sacredness? But a new thread might also be in order, since that one tends toward specialized interpretations. Whichever you think would work better!
Excellent! Thanks for finding the thread! A continuation of the discussion is a great idea.
nocturne ignis wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:01 pm My apologies I understand that a comment like that may be compromising. I'll be more careful next time if any, of how i use my vocabulary.
No apologies necessary, brother! I only clarify because I try to be as transparent as possible in my communication since written communication is often harder than spoken. I don't often remember my dreams, usually only during some kind of intense working, so it was really bizarre for me to wake up from that dream to open your email about your dream where you were bullied. Even more bizarre to then read Insanus's post. I am inclined to lean into the theory of the energetical current, but I'm still stuck on "why?" When I get a spare moment I'll empty some thoughts into the thread on synchronicity that Nefastos posted above.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Polyhymnia
Soror
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Re: Symbolism in Dreams

Post by Polyhymnia »

Nefastos wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:32 am What kind of symbolism your dreams use the most, or what kind of dream symbolism you remember the most after waking up?
Are there different times or states of mind when different sets of symbols take part in your dreams? What are the ways of dreaming you enjoy the most, or which seem to give the most useful information on your life's situation?
To answer the original question, I don't often observe mythical symbols at all unless the dreams are moreso waking dreams, aka visions when I am in a meditative state.

I do, however, dream of people from my immediate personal life very often. Whoever I'm closest to in spirit will usually be who I interact with the most in my dreams. I also notice that when these types of dreams happen, I not only observe the details better, but I observe the atmosphere better and my feelings within the dream. I enjoy these dreams the most because I can remember then the most, and it almost feels like a second life.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Aquila
Frater
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Symbolism in Dreams

Post by Aquila »

The content of my dreams vary quite a lot which makes them difficult to generalize. Memorizing some of my latest dreams, there has been people that seem somewhat "random", although I know who they are. These people are mostly related to my studies, work or everyday life in general. Quite often more mythical themes appear in these "normal" situations. For example, one dream started quite normally, I'm doing some kind of work. Well, I happened to be moving in tunnels inside snow, so I don't know if that is normal or not but that's what you do in dreams. Yet the landscape was completely strange to me - like they usually are, only my childhood home always remains the same in dreams if I happen to dream about that. From this very normal situation we go to some unknown old house where there is an empty cradle in front of a wall. In this place we listen to an old tape recorded here long ago and on this tape we can hear a ghost making some small noises. At the same time we are inside an old photograph where there's people gathered around this empty cradle - probably the situation where the tape was recorded.

A dream that I often see is that I am in some location at night. I am looking at the night sky and suddenly I see the stars start moving. This is exceptionally thrilling and I think something like "wow, finally it's happening!".

I wonder if others here have seen stars starting to move in dreams? I think this could potentially be something more common.

So maybe a fairly common plot is that I am in a strange place, doing something very usual that I often do or want to do and then something peculiar happens. I'd say that in my dreams something very conventional is entwined with something unexplained or mysterious.

Certain animals are also relatively common. Especially birds and bears.
Polyhymnia wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:02 pm it almost feels like a second life.
This sentence made me remember something I experience in dreams sometimes. In these dreams I remember that the thing that is happening is continuation from something that happened in another dream maybe years ago. I never remember those things while I'm awake. It's just like entering another life where you have different memories and different experiences which you can only live for that brief moment that you dream about them. Of course they might be false memories but that is how I experience those moments.
User avatar
Smaragd
Frater
Posts: 1079
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:27 am

Re: Symbolism in Dreams

Post by Smaragd »

A delightful discussion!

First of all, for me as it seemed to be common to others here, the symbols are most oftenly hidden and embedded in to the surroundings, and behind the general moods. This means that I rarely recognize their meaning when sleeping as if lulled in to this unconscious robotic mode where I follow what may come (although sometimes I’m consciously struggling with ethical things in dreams etc.). Only when I’m really making an effort to interpret the dreams, usually by writing a dream diary, I come to realize the hidden symbols. Usually the symbols might be called universal and mythical, meaning that the material conditions are what they are and my system of language, understanding of physics and cultural concepts are made use of by the unconscious in forming the dreams. I’ve come to think alchemy as a very natural symbol structure for me in this sense, because it deals hands on with the elemental realities and those things are present in pretty much every landscape my dreams are made of. It is a sort of half step between culturally specific and universal symbols. I think this is why alchemy is naturally part of many spiritual traditions, from the far east to the west.
Insanus wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:47 pm there's three levels A, B and C. A is waking consciousness that can communicate with B, which is dream consciousness. C is some sort of deep sleep that communicates with B, but not with A and B communicates with both A and C.
It seems B is the ”stage” of dreams – the place where all the background-foreground actions spark a vision for the dreaming mind. When taking occultism seriously, the tightly tuned ethical code that it necessitates seems to be behind the dreams that have revealed a bit more visibly vital content, althought for me, again the above mentioned unconsciousness to the beauty largely tends to remain until proper interpretation has been given time and thought for. There’s often a worry, fear or atleast some sort of concern that has been present in the most notable dreams I remember from my adult life, and this tension is like a secondary background mark behind the foremost symbols. It’s like the presence of the string that has been tuned properly, not to the overfocused stage similar to the scrying method Nefastos mentioned, which could be seen breaking the string, or septic nature of the spark appearing on the stage of dreams – an ill fire. A well set tuning of the instrument sometimes allows the mind symbols that might be of some value even after many years of seeing the dream, like an amulet that stays with you. The symbols could be seen following the overall tuning of the human instrument which is tensioned between the points of A & C.

I’m reminded of surreal art as the abstracted form can be seen symbolizing the effect of loosening the tuning, as opposed to the hyper tension (we’re sailing between the extremes here instead on the well tuned area). The melting forms disappearing with the accustomed meaning of those forms, only to (hopefully) revive the meanings behind the forms. Think of how Dali's clock makes one rethink the concept of time. In many ways dream logic is close to surreal art and in this sense it is easy to see dreams trying to revivify our relation to the world of forms. But these sort of detailed visual symbols are more valuable to the general pondering of metaphysics amidst the interested party, while on personal interpretation of dreams I take the larger contexts of the dream symbols as much more meaningful and useful for my path.
User avatar
Soror O
Soror
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:15 pm

Re: Symbolism in Dreams

Post by Soror O »

Polyhymnia wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:10 pm Killing yourself in dreams just to wake up sounds absolutely terrifying. I don't know if I'd ever want to sleep again, should I ever experience something similar. Your speaking of your father reminds me of Sylvia Plath's [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hHjctqSBwM] poem, "Daddy."
Yes, I'm acquainted with the lovely poem, and at times have been quite obsessed with Plaths death.

When I was experiencing my dark night of the soul/ nigredo ten years ago, I sometimes nearly believed that I would "wake up" by killing myself - just like I did in childhood dreams. Now I feel that waking up doesn't require killing oneself.

Been dreaming about death and roses.
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.
User avatar
Polyhymnia
Soror
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Re: Symbolism in Dreams

Post by Polyhymnia »

Aquila wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:30 pm
Polyhymnia wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:02 pm it almost feels like a second life.
This sentence made me remember something I experience in dreams sometimes. In these dreams I remember that the thing that is happening is continuation from something that happened in another dream maybe years ago. I never remember those things while I'm awake. It's just like entering another life where you have different memories and different experiences which you can only live for that brief moment that you dream about them. Of course they might be false memories but that is how I experience those moments.
Yes!! This is something I experience too, that continuation, but there are also specific buildings and dreamscapes that never change that sometimes show up at random. Sometimes I'll wake up and almost immediately forget my dream, but then later in the evening, once the veil of sleepiness starts to fall, I'll start getting remnants of what I had dreamed the previous night. I would love to study consciousness, but the amount that cannot be falsified within psychology, especially within this sub-study, drives me insane.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Polyhymnia
Soror
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Re: Symbolism in Dreams

Post by Polyhymnia »

Soror O wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:23 pm Yes, I'm acquainted with the lovely poem, and at times have been quite obsessed with Plaths death.

When I was experiencing my dark night of the soul/ nigredo ten years ago, I sometimes nearly believed that I would "wake up" by killing myself - just like I did in childhood dreams. Now I feel that waking up doesn't require killing oneself.

Been dreaming about death and roses.
I, too, have been quite obsessed with her death. No surprise, being a mother of two with a long history of depression. Her biography has served as both comfort and warning for me for when the "bell jar" gets a little too tight. Death and roses! Sounds lovely and symbolic. I had a dream the other night where the frontman of Weezer wanted to date me and when he tried to get it on, I told him I wasn't ready. Not the prettiest or most symbolic dream I ever had, and I woke up sweaty. Does anyone else experience physiological changes like that in their dream state? Waking up with a racing heart? Sweaty? Nervous?
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Polyhymnia
Soror
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Re: Symbolism in Dreams

Post by Polyhymnia »

Smaragd wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:38 pm I’m reminded of surreal art as the abstracted form can be seen symbolizing the effect of loosening the tuning, as opposed to the hyper tension (we’re sailing between the extremes here instead on the well tuned area). The melting forms disappearing with the accustomed meaning of those forms, only to (hopefully) revive the meanings behind the forms. Think of how Dali's clock makes one rethink the concept of time. In many ways dream logic is close to surreal art and in this sense it is easy to see dreams trying to revivify our relation to the world of forms. But these sort of detailed visual symbols are more valuable to the general pondering of metaphysics amidst the interested party, while on personal interpretation of dreams I take the larger contexts of the dream symbols as much more meaningful and useful for my path.
For you is dream logic consistent? Can there even be a consistency to dream logic, or is it something that is wholly unpredictable?I can't seem to grasp enough understanding from my dreams at all to even start to notice some form of cohesion. There are times when dreams stick with me, and the symbols are incredibly apparent, like when I'm dreaming about someone close to me in spirit. My dreams also have a different atmosphere when I am dreaming of the dead and dying, but the remainder of my dreams often have no rhyme or reason, even within the seeming boundlessness of dream logic.

Dreaming is one of those things where I often ask myself if I am spiritually stunted, since most of my occultist peers have dreams rife with symbolism, and mine almost all seem to be nothing as profound.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
User avatar
Smaragd
Frater
Posts: 1079
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:27 am

Re: Symbolism in Dreams

Post by Smaragd »

Polyhymnia wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:27 pm For you is dream logic consistent? Can there even be a consistency to dream logic, or is it something that is wholly unpredictable?I can't seem to grasp enough understanding from my dreams at all to even start to notice some form of cohesion.
To some regard yes. I can keep trying to grasp for understanding of the different aspects of the dream experience and discern some laws by which it operates. For example, I see some consistency of dream logic in the way it bends the waking state logics in order to give us meaningful and challenging reflections of our struggle. I see consistency in the way we can consciously build up the tension of dreams by dream practices etc. I see consistency in the unpredictable nature itself - the unconscious representing that which I've pushed in to the area of otherness. But it's hard to say that the typical dream logic experiences, those that does not make sense in waking state, would be consistent themselves. I come back to the idea of fluidity of dreams and surreal art: consistency of dreams logic is in entirely different plane, somewhere in the mechanisms of dreaming and the dialogue between the conscious and the unconscious.
Polyhymnia wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:27 pmThere are times when dreams stick with me, and the symbols are incredibly apparent, like when I'm dreaming about someone close to me in spirit. My dreams also have a different atmosphere when I am dreaming of the dead and dying, but the remainder of my dreams often have no rhyme or reason, even within the seeming boundlessness of dream logic.

Dreaming is one of those things where I often ask myself if I am spiritually stunted, since most of my occultist peers have dreams rife with symbolism, and mine almost all seem to be nothing as profound.
I wonder if these barren dreamslands are a typical theme in dreams of people who go through the mysteries of the archetype of Saturn. I mean, it might be quite often when you hear some rather "secular" people's dreams and see the obvious symbolism in them to which they are oblivious to themselves, and then when you are really serious about occult striving and come to acknowledge even the most challenging archetypes, that would spark these most challenging types of dreams that are apparently meaningless. Perhaps it could mean that we've come to deal with the challenges that appear in a very dull form. Whether it is about grounding in a deep way, or perhaps learning to find the vivifying water out of the stone in the middle of a desert - building proper tension for the dreams to ignite further, which would correspond to the challenges of recognizing the challenge and something that is meaningful from the day-to-day grayness. Again the idea of trying to give birth to oneself in an entirely different plane seems meaningful in these kinds of situations. I'd imagine an adept looking at my dreams and shaking the head when I'm struggling to see the obvious, similarly as I'm looking at some other people's dreams and seeing what is obvious. Again the otherness within dream symbolism is present here.
Post Reply