Ethical Principles

Convictions, morals, other societies and religions.
Angolmois

Ethical Principles

Post by Angolmois »

If I'm "breathing too much" into the forums please say stop, but as I'm quite bored, tired of reading books and have nothing else useful to do, I'd like to start a new topic about ethics.

There are many kind of ethics around, but what is occult ethics? In the SoA it is said that practical occultism is ethics and their adaptation & practice in everyday life. I think the main principles of SoA's ethics is described in the threefold key; do you however follow other, maybe more worldly or humanistic/secular ethical principles, like support of animal rights? What is the "school of ethics" you most eagerly follow or see as true; for example utilitarianism, duty ethics, virtue ethics or some adaptation of Pagan, Classical Platonic or Christian ethical principles maybe? Can these also be fitted into the system of joining of the hands, finding the best in every system?
Mars
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 1:54 pm

Re: Ethical Principles

Post by Mars »

Boreas wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:48 am If I'm "breathing too much" into the forums please say stop
Please don't stop! We seem to share many interests.
Boreas wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:48 amThere are many kind of ethics around, but what is occult ethics? In the SoA it is said that practical occultism is ethics and their adaptation & practice in everyday life. I think the main principles of SoA's ethics is described in the threefold key; do you however follow other, maybe more worldly or humanistic/secular ethical principles, like support of animal rights? What is the "school of ethics" you most eagerly follow or see as true; for example utilitarianism, duty ethics, virtue ethics or some adaptation of Pagan, Classical Platonic or Christian ethical principles maybe? Can these also be fitted into the system of joining of the hands, finding the best in every system?
I don't really follow any specific outer system of ethics; instead I try to be in touch with the "spark of compassion" inside and try to draw from that. Hard to explain, as everything seems to be this morning. But I've found inspiration from virtue ethics and Kantian ethics as well. I do have more wordly ethical standpoints as well, but these are easily made into a rigid dogmatism nowadays which to me seems to be relapsing to old religious dilemmas, so I'm careful there. They are also close to politics so it's a dangerous road. I am very fond of animal rights, for instance, and I think that the growing understanding of animal rights etc. is one of the more hopeful features of our troubled times; there must've been some sort of growth in the collective consciousness.
Angolmois

Re: Ethical Principles

Post by Angolmois »

Mars wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:15 amPlease don't stop! We seem to share many interests.
Ok!
Mars wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:15 am I do have more wordly ethical standpoints as well, but these are easily made into a rigid dogmatism nowadays which to me seems to be relapsing to old religious dilemmas, so I'm careful there. They are also close to politics so it's a dangerous road.
That's a very good point. It may perhaps be right to say that wordly / humanistic ethics are mostly "secular theology" - that is, theology without a transcendent reference point - which still contain the germs of religious dilemmas when taken dogmatically. For in many cases secularism hasn't really done away with old dogmas, only replaced them with its own ones that are like a caricature of theological dogmas since the reference point is missing.
User avatar
Insanus
Posts: 835
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:06 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Ethical Principles

Post by Insanus »

I try to follow strict LHP ethical code: always act according to your desire. I think it's what breathes life in the threefold key to me personally and a) gives real energy to act instead of just being in "i should and would if i could but oh dear i'm so tired"-mode sick of my own being and b) gives real challenges where the threefold key is not an abstraction that does nothing, but a real, say "algorithm" figuring out ways to be stupid egocentric hedonist in a more refined way.
Also, I think we are (read: I am) very much slaves to subconscious passions and drives and rejecting parts that don't seem to be ethical according to some code is simply against the holistic project of becoming human. It might be good for others, it might be good for ourselves but here curiosity (aspiration to truth?) trumps all that. On top of that, in some radical LHP it seems "common" (how common is radical LHP) to get inspiration from some very dark states and then act that out as violence and crime. I think there are alternative ways of using the bleakest drives and maybe that's "my ethical project", at least I hope so.
Jumalan synnit ovat kourallinen hiekkaa ihmisen valtameressä
User avatar
Nefastos
Posts: 3029
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Ethical Principles

Post by Nefastos »

Boreas wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:48 amIf I'm "breathing too much" into the forums please say stop

Thank you for being active, it also activates others to a certain point. Mayhap a slightly calmer pace might be ideal though, to avoid restlessness? I will also edit together some double posts, for a stabler effect.

Boreas wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:48 amdo you however follow other, maybe more worldly or humanistic/secular ethical principles

Perhaps I do not. I either take them as a form of following or natural personal extension of the Triple Key ethics that you mentioned, or then they are more like a code of behaviour that has only pragmatic value, and therefore I do not consider them "ethics" per se.

For example, I try to remain polite in different social situations, just to make things go smoothier for everyone. It is not ethics, it is pragmatist morals: nothing "good" (or bad) in it.

As an example of thinking about ethics versus intuitive human morals, I am also hostile towards "loyalty" as it is usually taken, and consider such tribal morals to be a root of much suffering & neglect – towards "the others" – in the world.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Angolmois

Re: Ethical Principles

Post by Angolmois »

Nefastos wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:23 pm
Thank you for being active, it also activates others to a certain point. Mayhap a slightly calmer pace might be ideal though, to avoid restlessness?
I'll follow your advice, and it also comes naturally for I just arrived to The Forest, and will meet daughters and friends, so I'll be away from here for a while. Cheers all!
User avatar
Polyhymnia
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Re: Ethical Principles

Post by Polyhymnia »

Boreas wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:48 am If I'm "breathing too much" into the forums please say stop, but as I'm quite bored, tired of reading books and have nothing else useful to do, I'd like to start a new topic about ethics.
It's been wonderful reading your posts. You bring a wealth of knowledge and often hard for me to answer questions with you, and I've been enjoying going through the threads very much, even if I may feel unqualified to add any depth to the discussions.

As for ethics, I really do try to abide by the good ol' golden rule in everything I do. My morality is heavily influenced by my very Christian father, who had me volunteering from a very young age. He took me to hospitals for the mentally ill, jails, nursing homes, and homeless shelters, and I've carried those moments with me through my whole life. I have a desire, almost a need, to serve and help those who are in a vulnerable state. I've had to learn to be a little selfish in my adult life (or what I originally perceived as selfish) because I hadn't realized how that mindset had affected so much of my life in terms of my own self esteem, needs, and asserting myself in relationships instead of being a doormat. The triple key is pretty much my code now. I apply it to everything.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
Angolmois

Re: Ethical Principles

Post by Angolmois »

Polyhymnia wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:15 pmIt's been wonderful reading your posts. You bring a wealth of knowledge and often hard for me to answer questions with you, and I've been enjoying going through the threads very much, even if I may feel unqualified to add any depth to the discussions.
Thank you for your kind words, Polyhymnia! Good to know that I've managed to bring something to the forum.
User avatar
Soror O
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:15 pm

Re: Ethical Principles

Post by Soror O »

Insanus wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:35 pm I try to follow strict LHP ethical code: always act according to your desire. I think it's what breathes life in the threefold key to me personally and a) gives real energy to act instead of just being in "i should and would if i could but oh dear i'm so tired"-mode sick of my own being and b) gives real challenges where the threefold key is not an abstraction that does nothing, but a real, say "algorithm" figuring out ways to be stupid egocentric hedonist in a more refined way.
Also, I think we are (read: I am) very much slaves to subconscious passions and drives and rejecting parts that don't seem to be ethical according to some code is simply against the holistic project of becoming human. It might be good for others, it might be good for ourselves but here curiosity (aspiration to truth?) trumps all that. On top of that, in some radical LHP it seems "common" (how common is radical LHP) to get inspiration from some very dark states and then act that out as violence and crime. I think there are alternative ways of using the bleakest drives and maybe that's "my ethical project", at least I hope so.
This is interesting, thank you for sharing! I think that this kind of wise hedonism could minimize the impact that distructive subconscious thrives can have on one's deveploment. Desire is a powerful teacher and by following it one can burn more quickly into the core-compounds and shadow-compounds of being. Faced with desire the inner sage can be burned down into a inner hypochrite, the inner prude can be burned down into a whore etc. But really it's not a single way route that desire can affect. It all about how one uses it.
Nefastos wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:23 pm
As an example of thinking about ethics versus intuitive human morals, I am also hostile towards "loyalty" as it is usually taken, and consider such tribal morals to be a root of much suffering & neglect – towards "the others" – in the world.


Oh yes, I have never understood the meaning or morals of (such) loyalty. My father once praised my brother being loyal. It felt to me like he was referring rather to a dog - than to a human being by saying that. I prefer the moral of being true to oneself, whether it means being loyal or not. For me the idea of demanding or anticipating loaylty from others is absurd. I never liked dogs that much. The only use that I can invent for loyalty seeing as a form of play, such as in some bdsm-relations.

My ethics:
I've said that I love people being full of themselves: Full of Self (and rarely they are). Being selfish is therefore something to live up to, an ethical principle. These thoughts stem for example from a jungian worldview. I believe that by owning oneself, one can truly engage with the outer world more freely, ie. with minimum projections.

It's not a conscious ethical principle, but I align with the assumed underdogs. I identify with the hobos, crazy people, criminals etc. I have a sense of belonging with the "underground society".

To have pity, is a moral flaw. Real compassion is elementary.

I value being conscious over anything. I demand it from myself and from the people I take into my life. (Since I value it this much I have a massive unconscious shadow, that's for sure hahha.)
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.
Kenazis
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:57 pm
Location: Satakunta - Limbo

Re: Ethical Principles

Post by Kenazis »

I try to follow threefold key, and in my opinion that is pretty huge mission for life. There’s many perspectives you can take to this though, and I’m not yet found this been too “small model” to use.
Basing your actions so that they are done from right intentions (Will to act for good), executing them as empathically as you can thinking also others and not just yourself (love) and aiming to increase the understanding in yourself and others. This is the ideal of actions. Sometimes executed better than some other times.
I also see that threefold key can be interpreted to be virtue ethics, deontological ethics, and/or Consequentialism. But if I must somehow try to put my ethical attitude in a nutshell, it might be some kind of pragmatic virtue ethics.

ps. as Ave, I also have always related myself with the underdogs and outsiders.
"We live for the woods and the moon and the night"
Locked