Aquila wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:38 pmThe only problem is that humanism includes ethical viewpoints and does not really state that humans are only pieces of meat (of course there are extreme materialists but I don't think that equals to humanism in general).
I may have a quite limited understand in of humanism but I have always thought that no form of humanism believed in anything Else than corporeal existence. Maybe in a mind also but as a phantasm in the sense of cartesian bifurcation and dualism.
Yet I think the nihilist criticism holds: On what ground do the ethics stand? I don't think you can say they stand on their own without making of them anything other than empty moralism.
Aquila wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:38 pm I think we could say that the will to lessen the suffering of the world is quite a humanist point of view..
I maybe dabbling with semantics here, but I'd say humane, yes, not necessarily humanistic.
Aquila wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:38 pmAnother question could be this: if it would not be wrong to cause more suffering in a world with no higher purpose, how would it be more wrong in a world that has a higher purpose?.
This boils down to the idea(lism) of Love which is already a transcendent principle. It can indeed be said that without it the higher purpose can indeed be seen to justify suffering in the name of some greater ideal.
Aquila wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:38 pmWouldn't it be more "ok" in a purposeful world where you acknowledge that you will also face the consequences?.
This is the logic of the downward path I think.
Aquila wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:38 pm If there is some kind of afterlife, wouldn't it be less criminal to murder someone knowing they will continue existence in another form than in the world where there is no other purpose than this once experienced material existence?
Not if the material existence is seen to reflect and embody some important part of the whole being. But there are some erring souls who would say and have said (and acted accordingly also) that to save someone's soul the body must be killed.
Aquila wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:38 pmI think ethics (compassion, truthfulness etc.) have to be found valuable whether we believe in certain other higher purpose or not.
In an ideal utopia this would be True. The Problem is that we don't live in an ideal world and ethics don't Come naturally to many, which is why it is important to teach the doctrine of Meaning, truth etc. to people. Why would it be wrong to lie and cheat one's way to personally happiness if there's no meaning at all?
This ends short for my buss Ride ends. I'll get back!